Who shattered Shadow?

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Who shattered Shadow?

#1 tjc52

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 12:38 PM

Ok, we know that Scabbie did some mega crime, apparently killed a dragon inside Kurald Emurlahn, which led to its sundering.

But we also know that Icarium is responsible for shattering a warren, as we get told at some point in DHG. So, if Scabbie shattered shadow, what did Icarium shatter? There aren't two broken warrens wondering about are there.

On a serparate note, in HoC, Kalam, when learning about the crippled god, thinks something like "You were there too (at the chaining), weren't you [Cotillion], should have stuck a knife in the bastard then"

How could Cotillion have been at the chaining, as at that stage, Dancer was presumable not even alive yet?

#2 Dinivan

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 12:45 PM

tjc52 said:

On a serparate note, in HoC, Kalam, when learning about the crippled god, thinks something like "You were there too (at the chaining), weren't you [Cotillion], should have stuck a knife in the bastard then"

I wondered about that, too, but then i'm not really strong with the timelime;)

as for the shattering...i thought that was a process with more steps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it stated in BH that Scabbie's killing of Sorrit was producing the first serious wound of the warren KE?
This would leave the final blow dealt by good old berserk-iccy:D

#3

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 02:30 PM

The theory goes that Scabandari was repsonsible for the first rivening, and the shattering by Icarium was probably a fragment of Emurlahn rather than a complete warren...

As for Cotillion/Dancer being at the chaining, yes he was, but there has been more than one chaining, and that's where the confusion occurs sometimes :rolleyes:

#4 Whelp

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 03:13 PM

Could the KCCM Matrons have had a hand in shattering Kurald Emurlahn (basically finishing what Scabandari began)?

#5 Orfantal

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 04:49 PM

Didn't Scabby killing Sorrit in Emerlahn cause a wound to the warren ... can't have done much good to whatever warren the Drgon provided the power to. Plus Icarium gave a fatal wound to the Azath house linked to Shadow, weakening or wounding it further. In addition didn't the soletaken ritual of the First Empire damage a warren.. Emerlahn again I think. in which case that's the most likely final cause to the sundering..or am I misremembering.

#6 fan_83

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 01:21 AM

the first damage to emurhaln is from scanbadari... sorrit is linked to serc.. path of the sky..

the next step is the first empire... which hurt it some more

then icarium

#7 Murrin

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 02:25 AM

fan_83 said:

the next step is the first empire... which hurt it some more

I don't think it was related. In the MT prologue the Edur are said to have come to the Malazan world to escape the shattering of their Warren. This is 600000 years before the First Empire.

#8 amirebram

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Posted 18 March 2006 - 01:31 AM

How I see it that Bloodeye wounded and cracked the warren, Icarum broke it (or parts of it) open.

Bloodeye's crim was killing the Royal Edur familly in an atemp to take power into his own hand. As we know there were hundreds of thousands of Edur when the whole things happend, so this is a long time after the Edur were created and an insanely long time after the Andii were first made.

#9 Tes'thesula

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 12:56 PM

Thats how i've always seen it as well, Scanbandari makes it unlivable , and icarium (perhaps with some help from first empire shenanigans) breaks it...then again, i've been wrong before

#10 Tiger_sword

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 01:30 PM

Prehaps Scabby broke it then Icarium shattered on of the broken parts of shadow. We have seen that 'shards' of a warren can be remade into new warrens i.e. all the new shadow warrens. Prehaps Icarium broke one of these new warrens (same goes for the ritual of the first empire prehaps?)

#11 Illuyankas

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 05:34 PM

Ah, but the warren shattered by the Soletaken Ritual was healed, eventually.

Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.

#12

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Posted 19 March 2006 - 07:31 PM

fan_83 said:

the first damage to emurhaln is from scanbadari... sorrit is linked to serc.. path of the sky..

the next step is the first empire... which hurt it some more

then icarium

It makes no difference which warren Sorrit is aspected to ........it was the spilling of draconean blood in the heart of Emurlahn which caused the rivening.
He murdered the royal line of the Edur along the way as well...

#13 Guest_Tempest_*

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 06:10 PM

i thought it would be more to do with Scabby usurping the rightful rulers of Kurald Emurlahn. All the other "royal families" have draconic figures perhaps it was their blood that did it.

also, i don't see how Sorrit could have been killed in Shadow and frozen near a skykeep while her body was still fresh

#14

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 07:35 PM

Well I'm assuming the "royal families" you refer to are the Andii for instance?
But they are a race of people, just like the Edur, and not draconic at all.

fresh? "Long dead, once frozen, but now rotting."
As to how it got there... 'Shadow wanders, and respects no borders.'
'Ah, then... this... was trapped here,drawn from Shadow..'
'snared by the Jaghut's ice magic..yadda yadda'

Anyway for me the most interesting part of this is:-

Mappo : "who first dipped their hands into this feel stream? Who drank deep and so was transformed, and what effect did that otataral spike have upon that transformation?'

#15 Tiger_sword

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Posted 21 March 2006 - 07:43 PM

right now it seams like the most likely roots of the otataral dragon. However, surely if this is the case then the OD would have (albeit very slightly) the same aspect as Sorrit either that or the otataral completely destroyed that aspect. Only problem is whoever drank would have to have done it before the Jaghurt froze the scene. In which case it could either be whoever killed Sorrit or someone close by when she died or someone in shadow. Who?