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Sorry if this has been covered before but did anyone else think that Iskara Jarak was Whiskeyjack? A malazan with a hundred odd men in the past, involved in a war, whole burning bridge clanger, told the anibar to run away...i cant remember how long ago it was they were told to push off - completely unreasonable? :confused:
Iskara Jarak
#2
Dolorous Menhir 
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Posted 12 March 2006 - 07:59 PM
It never occured to me when I was reading, but now that you've said it seems obvious, that it was Whiskeyjack.
I do remember thinking "a Malazan King, what's that???"
It makes sense for it to be Whiskeyjack, commanding a military company in the area, and the imagery of "Iron Prophet" does fit with my general impression of WJ - grey eyes, greying beard, hard manner, right?
It does make you wonder though, how could the memory of his name and visit become so corrupted and a mythos built around him when it must've been less than 100 years since he met the Anibar, almost certainly within living memory.
I do remember thinking "a Malazan King, what's that???"
It makes sense for it to be Whiskeyjack, commanding a military company in the area, and the imagery of "Iron Prophet" does fit with my general impression of WJ - grey eyes, greying beard, hard manner, right?
It does make you wonder though, how could the memory of his name and visit become so corrupted and a mythos built around him when it must've been less than 100 years since he met the Anibar, almost certainly within living memory.
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Posted 12 March 2006 - 08:36 PM
Dolorous Menhir said:
It never occured to me when I was reading, but now that you've said it seems obvious, that it was Whiskeyjack.
I do remember thinking "a Malazan King, what's that???"
It makes sense for it to be Whiskeyjack, commanding a military company in the area, and the imagery of "Iron Prophet" does fit with my general impression of WJ - grey eyes, greying beard, hard manner, right?
It does make you wonder though, how could the memory of his name and visit become so corrupted and a mythos built around him when it must've been less than 100 years since he met the Anibar, almost certainly within living memory.
I do remember thinking "a Malazan King, what's that???"
It makes sense for it to be Whiskeyjack, commanding a military company in the area, and the imagery of "Iron Prophet" does fit with my general impression of WJ - grey eyes, greying beard, hard manner, right?
It does make you wonder though, how could the memory of his name and visit become so corrupted and a mythos built around him when it must've been less than 100 years since he met the Anibar, almost certainly within living memory.
Probably not, remember that 1) due to whatever happened to them in raraku, the bridgeburners had much longer lifespans then normal and 2) due to both the harshness of living and lack of proper medical knowledge the lifespan of your average tribesmen would be far shorter then what we in the 21st century could hope for.
If you take the average lifespan of a [insert name of the tribe here] to be say 35 years, then that'd be possibly 3 or so generations since iskar jarak visited them. Couple that with the fact that they seem a very superstitious bunch, believing in omens and ritualising everything, it's easy to believe that the truth could have been so corrupted in such a short time.
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Tiger_sword
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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:13 PM
It has been descussed [thread=4233]here[/thread] bout half way down the third page
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Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 12 March 2006 - 09:31 PM
Whoa, a life-span of only 35 years!
Boatfinder was no rocket scientist, but how on Earth did you get the impression the Anibar were THAT primitive?
(further note: Dassem Ultor "died" at the siege of Y'Ghatan only 10-15 years before GotM. So 7Cities was not fully pacified until very close to the books in time, and I get the distinct impression that Sepik & the Anibar are on the far coast of 7Cities, furthest from Malaz City, last to be reached by the Malaz armies. So although 100 years - lifetime of the Empire - is an upper limit, it's likely much much less time)
Boatfinder was no rocket scientist, but how on Earth did you get the impression the Anibar were THAT primitive?
(further note: Dassem Ultor "died" at the siege of Y'Ghatan only 10-15 years before GotM. So 7Cities was not fully pacified until very close to the books in time, and I get the distinct impression that Sepik & the Anibar are on the far coast of 7Cities, furthest from Malaz City, last to be reached by the Malaz armies. So although 100 years - lifetime of the Empire - is an upper limit, it's likely much much less time)
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Posted 12 March 2006 - 11:20 PM
thank you tiger sword
glad actually had a coherent thought, even if slightly less than original!
glad actually had a coherent thought, even if slightly less than original!
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Posted 13 March 2006 - 10:45 AM
It's a fallacy to think that tribal lifespans were much shorter than our own. _Average_ lifespans were shorter, but this is due to the much higher incidence of child mortality. If a person survived childhood, they were likely to live nearly as long as we do today.
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#9
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 10:25 AM
*shrugs* You meet people that are far beyond seventy if you visite the most backwards tribes in africa. In siberia and such isolated places there are tribes were most that survive childhood grow to be almost a hundred years old.. Boatfinder could very well be fairly old
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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:26 PM
As a student of history, I believe myself qualified to state that back in the early 1800s, regular farmers/peasants worked their entire life, then "retired" at about 40-45, when their bodied were exhausted from a life of labour. Then they died at about 50-55.
But as we're talking about an apparently nomadic people, their ability to take care of the elderly and infirm should be virtually nonexistant. Hence the shorter expected lifetime.
I'm not certain the following is a popular myth or not, but it's said that the Amerindians just left the old people behind when they no longer were able to take care of themselves. The Eskimos/Inuits, I've read (though I haven't confirmed the source), commited ritual suicide when they got too old.
And the apparently centuries old siberians etc, are often flukes.
Or they never really kept count of the years, and thus the age is more of a guess and to be partially blamed on faulty censuses. There's also been specualtion on whether this is also due to a different measure of years, as in the case of the biblical Sara (1st wife of Abraham), who according to the bible was over 90.
But as we're talking about an apparently nomadic people, their ability to take care of the elderly and infirm should be virtually nonexistant. Hence the shorter expected lifetime.
I'm not certain the following is a popular myth or not, but it's said that the Amerindians just left the old people behind when they no longer were able to take care of themselves. The Eskimos/Inuits, I've read (though I haven't confirmed the source), commited ritual suicide when they got too old.
And the apparently centuries old siberians etc, are often flukes.
Or they never really kept count of the years, and thus the age is more of a guess and to be partially blamed on faulty censuses. There's also been specualtion on whether this is also due to a different measure of years, as in the case of the biblical Sara (1st wife of Abraham), who according to the bible was over 90.
#12 Guest_Brick Tamland_*
Posted 24 March 2006 - 01:28 PM
In the middle of a reread of DHG and Kalam rides close to a region known as the Anibaj, it is an area south of Raraku that he isn't so familiar with although he did travel close to it in a time before.
Does the location tie in with where Karsa came across them?? I don't have my copy of BH to hand so I can't check but bearing this in mind it would seem more than likely that it was Whiskeyjack that met with the Anibar and they mispronounce his name as Iskara Jarack.
Also is the bloke who is ugly as sin and hates horses the same guard that gets his face chomped by Fiddler's horse in DHG? If so nice touch SE!
Does the location tie in with where Karsa came across them?? I don't have my copy of BH to hand so I can't check but bearing this in mind it would seem more than likely that it was Whiskeyjack that met with the Anibar and they mispronounce his name as Iskara Jarack.
Also is the bloke who is ugly as sin and hates horses the same guard that gets his face chomped by Fiddler's horse in DHG? If so nice touch SE!
#13
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 03:21 PM
I think the Anibar are on the north coast of Seven Cities, so presumably it's not the same place.
Old Brokeface is indeed the same man, which I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been halfway through a reread of DHG when BH came out. Also, the little girl servant of Soliel is the girl Fiddler saves from the rebels in G'danisban.
Old Brokeface is indeed the same man, which I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been halfway through a reread of DHG when BH came out. Also, the little girl servant of Soliel is the girl Fiddler saves from the rebels in G'danisban.
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#14
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:20 PM
Really??? I remembered the guy whose face got ruined, but not the girl. Was that around the time Apsalar had her visions and told Fiddler that ST = Kellanved?
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:27 PM
She's the one who is the grand-daughter to the Tanno Spiritwalker, who gave the Bridgeburners their song and Fiddler the conch shell
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:34 PM
I thought she was the girl in G'danisban, not Kimloc's granddaughter? The one that hid under the cart from the rapists. Apsalar went a bit nuts on their ... nuts afterwards, IIRC.
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#18
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:35 PM
Oh, her. I do remember her...but does this mean that Kimloc is dead?
edit: I think we're mixing up two different people, there were the two grand-daughters of Kimloc that Fiddler rescued when he was still travelling with Kalam (before the rebellion?), then there was some girl he rescued while he was travelling (in the guise of a Gral) with Apsalar & Crokus, that was definitely post-rebellion. I think it was this second girl who appears in BH.
edit: I think we're mixing up two different people, there were the two grand-daughters of Kimloc that Fiddler rescued when he was still travelling with Kalam (before the rebellion?), then there was some girl he rescued while he was travelling (in the guise of a Gral) with Apsalar & Crokus, that was definitely post-rebellion. I think it was this second girl who appears in BH.
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:39 PM
Yes, that's what I've been saying. Fiddler pretended to be a Gral when he saved her, too, and the fact that she is in G'danisban, while Kimloc lives in Ehrlitan, is another point against it being his granddaughter.
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Posted 24 March 2006 - 05:43 PM
hehe.. you're prolly right.... I thought it was a little wierd myself, and didn't remember the other girl...until ya'all pointed it out.. damn I love these books..
damn I love these books..
