Help
Could somebody remind me why Nightchill blew up Calot and Hairlock at the battle of Pale, or at least mention where i could find this info...
Tnx
Reminder
#2 Guest_BAD_*
Posted 04 March 2006 - 03:37 PM
hehe
You seem a tad confused there. It can be specifically found in Gardens of the Moon, Chapter Two. The battle scene outside Pale starts on page 72, paperback version.
You seem a tad confused there. It can be specifically found in Gardens of the Moon, Chapter Two. The battle scene outside Pale starts on page 72, paperback version.
#3 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:31 PM
Well, I only know calot and hairlock got blown up from behind, presumed tayshrenn, a'karonys is killed by rake, and nightchill gets torn up by a kenryl'ah (or is it a kenyl'rah doesn't matter). I somehow remeber that nightchill blew up the first two, and that tayshrenn conjured the demon to stop her, but I can't remeber if I read it in GoTM or MoI (or if I read that at all).
I only know that we're supposed too believe that tayshrenn is the uberevil one, while he isn't that bad after all (just a little incompetent when out of his league)
I only know that we're supposed too believe that tayshrenn is the uberevil one, while he isn't that bad after all (just a little incompetent when out of his league)
#4
Illuyankas 
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:35 PM
A'Karonys was killed by Nightchill (ice) and the kenryl'ah was summoned by Tayschrenn, it's detailed why in MOI.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#5 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 04 March 2006 - 08:46 PM
it's on the edge of my memory.... read MoI 2 weeks ago... can't remember...
somebody give it a push there
Why did calot hairlot and a'karonys have to die
calot was simehow even a nice guy
somebody give it a push there
Why did calot hairlot and a'karonys have to die
calot was simehow even a nice guy
#6
Illuyankas
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Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:19 PM
Nightchill wanted to get Dragnipur in order to free Draconus, using Bellurdan's help, and A'Karonys went to Tays about his concerns. But Tays only acted when Nightchill killed A'karonys, by kiling her back.
As far as I can remember, Calot and Hairlock were killed by Rake, but not especially so (he didn't aim), just random casualties. As far as I can remember - haven't read GOTM for months...
As far as I can remember, Calot and Hairlock were killed by Rake, but not especially so (he didn't aim), just random casualties. As far as I can remember - haven't read GOTM for months...
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#7 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 04 March 2006 - 09:43 PM
ok tnx
for draconus, memory restored, all i needed to know
even found the dialogue between whiskeyjack and dujek in MoI where they explain everything
still, leaves some questions about how calot an hairlock got killed, because they were attacked in their backs...
for draconus, memory restored, all i needed to know
even found the dialogue between whiskeyjack and dujek in MoI where they explain everything
still, leaves some questions about how calot an hairlock got killed, because they were attacked in their backs...
#8
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:34 PM
I agreed with your interpretation Illuyankas, that Nightchill had killed A'karonys, but then I read the scene again and Nightchill died BEFORE A'karonys. Which ruins that idea. The chain of events as recounted in MoI is:
-Nightchill kills A'karonys
-Tayschrenn summons demon to kill Nightchill as a result
-Nightchill dies
-Rake destroys the other demons (he complained about this to Baruk in GotM, and fingered Tays as the summoner, don't think he could've been wrong).
but when you read the actual scene you have
-Nightchill rent apart by demon
-Bellurdan does his signature move on the demon (a few seconds at least have passed since Nightchill bought it)
-THEN A'karonys dies (frozen).
so if he was trying to write that scene as "Nightchill does for A'karonys and Tays disses her for revenge" then he did a horrific job.
Calot - I think he's a genuine Rake casualty, he only died because he protected Tattersail at his own expense. Rake says he wasn't making a determined effort to kill them all (and I believe he could have easily, apart from Tays), just to drive them off. This is why he didn't kill anyone apart from Calot.
Hairlock - during GotM you are clearly supposed to think this was Tays. all evidence supports that, and the attempted rewriting of the event in MoI just seemed too clumsy. I still think it was Tays, and he had his own reasons for it. Nightchill had no motive, and both Tattersail and Hairlock himself say the attack came from the plain, ie it wasn't Rake.
-Nightchill kills A'karonys
-Tayschrenn summons demon to kill Nightchill as a result
-Nightchill dies
-Rake destroys the other demons (he complained about this to Baruk in GotM, and fingered Tays as the summoner, don't think he could've been wrong).
but when you read the actual scene you have
-Nightchill rent apart by demon
-Bellurdan does his signature move on the demon (a few seconds at least have passed since Nightchill bought it)
-THEN A'karonys dies (frozen).
so if he was trying to write that scene as "Nightchill does for A'karonys and Tays disses her for revenge" then he did a horrific job.
Calot - I think he's a genuine Rake casualty, he only died because he protected Tattersail at his own expense. Rake says he wasn't making a determined effort to kill them all (and I believe he could have easily, apart from Tays), just to drive them off. This is why he didn't kill anyone apart from Calot.
Hairlock - during GotM you are clearly supposed to think this was Tays. all evidence supports that, and the attempted rewriting of the event in MoI just seemed too clumsy. I still think it was Tays, and he had his own reasons for it. Nightchill had no motive, and both Tattersail and Hairlock himself say the attack came from the plain, ie it wasn't Rake.
#9 Guest_Garm_*
Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:38 PM
Maybe it is indeed a GotMism, I'd rather accept MoI on the reasons and the sequence.
#10
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 01:03 PM
so would I, it's just a shame the two versions flatly contradict each other.
#11 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 05 March 2006 - 03:32 PM
problem is we don't really know who caused "a'karonys to freeze and then crumble to dust".
KG is dark and very cold warren indeed ---> Rake
But what is Nightchill/sister of the cold nights warren?
Sho both uses night and cold in her name, which might indicate something on her aspect.
So we better stick to the MoI explanation, till something better comes up.
As for the rest, Tay is high Telas, wasn't Hairlock struck by fir or somthing, anyway, the attack on their position didn't come from the moon.
And SE hints on a history in 7C resulting in somekind of mutual hatred.
So i guess tays had some reasons to kill hairlock, but since the puppet got turned into shadowhoundfood, it's up to tays to elaborate.
KG is dark and very cold warren indeed ---> Rake
But what is Nightchill/sister of the cold nights warren?
Sho both uses night and cold in her name, which might indicate something on her aspect.
So we better stick to the MoI explanation, till something better comes up.
As for the rest, Tay is high Telas, wasn't Hairlock struck by fir or somthing, anyway, the attack on their position didn't come from the moon.
And SE hints on a history in 7C resulting in somekind of mutual hatred.
So i guess tays had some reasons to kill hairlock, but since the puppet got turned into shadowhoundfood, it's up to tays to elaborate.
#12
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 05:35 PM
but Nightchill died before A'karonys!
you just can't get around that, even by calling it a GOTMism.
you just can't get around that, even by calling it a GOTMism.
#13
Illuyankas
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 06:44 PM
Time-delayed spell?
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#14
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 05 March 2006 - 07:17 PM
but it all other cases in the books, spells fail as soon as mages are killed or otherwise incapacitated.
I think it's just an inconsistency that can't be fixed. I still love that scene though, I wish Tays and Rake would really go all-out more often.
I think it's just an inconsistency that can't be fixed. I still love that scene though, I wish Tays and Rake would really go all-out more often.
#15 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 05 March 2006 - 10:08 PM
you are right i doesn't make sense.
Erikson couldn't have meant calot or hairlock in the moi discussion, they both disliked tay, but then again something else , how do you obtain a sword from a guy by attacking him with collegues, and then at the same moment, you resolve your internal problems with the same collegues by turning them into popsicles...
problemsolving step by step
Erikson couldn't have meant calot or hairlock in the moi discussion, they both disliked tay, but then again something else , how do you obtain a sword from a guy by attacking him with collegues, and then at the same moment, you resolve your internal problems with the same collegues by turning them into popsicles...
problemsolving step by step
#16
Called-by-the-Voices
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Posted 14 April 2006 - 11:50 AM
I always thought that Calot and Hairlock got killed unintentionally by Tay (hence he expected them to hold their defences, while Calot didn't) while he attacked Nightchill, but then - Nightchill was killed by a summoned demon, wasn't she?
As for the sequence, well Tay may have killed Nightchill cuz A'karonys told him what she was planning, and then maybe Bellurdan tried to avenge Nightchilll by killing A'karo... I'm not, on the other hand, too sure of Bellurdan's ability to summon a kenyl'rah demon. That leaves Tay and Rake...
Tay's motives? That no one finds out about the Dragnipur-thing...
Rake's motives? Well, they were attacking him... As for his alibi when he talked with Baruk, you can always have the possiblity that he.. LIED !:eek:
As for the sequence, well Tay may have killed Nightchill cuz A'karonys told him what she was planning, and then maybe Bellurdan tried to avenge Nightchilll by killing A'karo... I'm not, on the other hand, too sure of Bellurdan's ability to summon a kenyl'rah demon. That leaves Tay and Rake...
Tay's motives? That no one finds out about the Dragnipur-thing...
Rake's motives? Well, they were attacking him... As for his alibi when he talked with Baruk, you can always have the possiblity that he.. LIED !:eek:
And one by one the gardens died
#17 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 14 April 2006 - 12:20 PM
The Kenyl'rahs are Tay's trademark, no doubt. It's the question who killed Calot and Hairlock, and most of all, why? They were struck from behind, so not from Rake. Why why why?
#19
tiam
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Posted 15 April 2006 - 11:58 PM
yeh i never really noticed that series of events. However in GOTM hairlock says he and calot were struck from the plane. therefore tay killed hairock and rake killed calot. it seems that that should be hw it went for official purposes
#20
Mailik
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Posted 16 April 2006 - 06:04 AM
Cant remember exactly why Hairlok and Calot died but as far as Nightchill...remember the Empire doesnt like Gods or Ascendant meddling in thier affairs. Also remember the curse Nightchill is under by Kallor. She is to die from betrayal. Tay summons the demon to slay her while preoccupied after learning what she is up to and most likely because he has figured out who she really is. Also we know Rake didnt kill any of them by his own words later on when talking to Buruk. He was curious why Tay would summon a demon to attack his own mages and also direct so much power back at his own only using a fraction to attack Moons Spawn.(Of course it was enough to do serious damage to the fortress making him withdraw to save his people inside) just my 2cents and bad memory 
