[Epiph]

I'm in the midst of a GotM reread, and realized that I'm still confused by what happened at Pale, so I hunted up this thread. But, in Erikson's preface to my edition, he says, in regards to revising or rewriting GotM, that he has no intention to do so, as he has no idea how he could make it more clear or what he would change.

This implies that the discrepancy is intentional and not a GotMism.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Aptorian;228645 said:

Yeah, she took down a Kenrylalala with ease, the fight was decided by the Aptorians superior speed and agility though.

I wonder if Ap has typical abilities for an Aptorian, or if she's an epic, badass Aptorian.

[Aptorian]

She used to work for the "king of the aptorians" or something like that. Implying she was a messenger or an assassin, etc. She may be a very good Aptorian, but I think all Aptorians are that good.

I would love to see more about the Azalans. Two penises? *giggles like a little girl*

[Tapper]

She was a concubine (edit: I think ST says that somewhere after she and Kalam freed the tortured children), if I'm not mistaken. Could explain the agility

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Aptorian;358155 said:

She used to work for the "king of the aptorians" or something like that. Implying she was a messenger or an assassin, etc. She may be a very good Aptorian, but I think all Aptorians are that good.

I would love to see more about the Azalans. Two penises? *giggles like a little girl*

So now you're dreaming of demonic double penetration. You sir, will never cease to surprise me.

[acesn8s]

Aptorian;358155 said:

I would love to see more about the Azalans. Two penises? *giggles like a little girl*

Don't forget about the caustic urine!

[Dolorous Menhir]

Tapper;358192 said:

She was a concubine (edit: I think ST says that somewhere after she and Kalam freed the tortured children), if I'm not mistaken. Could explain the agility

Yeah, that's right.

[Raraku]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;358242 said:

So now you're dreaming of demonic double penetration. You sir, will never cease to surprise me.

Well if you ever go to Japan and look up the anime porn, you will not be left wanting. hehehehe:D

[palaeologos]

Dolorous Menhir;67835 said:

but Nightchill died before A'karonys!

you just can't get around that, even by calling it a GOTMism.

Isn't that whole sequence told from Tattersail's POV? So perhaps we're just seeing events as she saw or noticed them happening; not quite an unreliable narrator, I guess, but close.

[malthaussen]

I just thought I'd throw another log on the fire... this isn't meant to be taken seriously, no, not at all. Just call it crazed speculation.

Maybe Bellurdan killed Nightchill. What, say you? Impossible! He was her mate! He loved her! Look at how torn apart he was by her death!

Exactly. Look how torn up he was by her death. Grief? Or remorse?

Bellurdan was a Company Man. And although he comes off as a pretty dumb guy in GOtM, well, he was a high mage, wasn't he? And was used to do important research by Tayschrenn himself. Suppose Bellurdan got wind that Nightchill wanted to get Dragnapur? What would he do? Love or loyalty? You could see where this would put a bit of an emotional strain on the boy.

Speculate further. Suppose Nightchill and A'karonys were in league? Okay, there's no textual evidence for this, but that's why I'm calling it "speculation." So Bellurdan finds out, and reports to Tay. Tay says "we can't have this," and in the ensuing battle he kills
A'karonys and orders Bellurdan to kill Nightchill -- thus, incidentally, testing Bellurdan's true loyalty. In support of this crazy theory, I seem to recall that when Nightchill gets cursed by Kallor, she says something about continuing to take risks and live life regardless of the fear of betrayal. Now, I don't know how close Tay and Nightchill were, but obviously being killed by one's mate is pretty big-league betrayal. Yes, Nightchill was killed by one of Tay's pet demons -- but maybe Tay gave Bellurdan one of his Demons in a Bottle to do the deed, while he dealt with A'Karonys.

As for Calot, I'm pretty satisfied with the "friendly fire" theory, since quite a few people seem to have gone down as Tay deflected Rake's attacks. Still, there is the problem of all of those Bridgeburners being killed by "accident." I am not satisfied that the theory of Laseen (and Tayschrenn) wanting to wax all of the "old guard" has been conclusively disproven. It is perfectly possible to have created a context to "outlaw" Dujek's host and to have killed off the Bridgeburners in the process. And since that's exactly what happened...

-- Mal

(Postscriptum: Any idea why SE calls this event the "sorcerous enfilade?" Or rather, why the "future historians" of the Empire call it that? What was enfiladed? Certainly not Pale, not Moon's Spawn. The mages themselves? If so, then who did the enfilading? This terminology may have more to it than immediately meets the eye... -- mal)

This post has been edited by malthaussen: 27 October 2008 - 01:41 PM

[Aptorian]

malthaussen, on Oct 27 2008, 02:33 PM, said:

(Postscriptum: Any idea why SE calls this event the "sorcerous enfilade?" Or rather, why the "future historians" of the Empire call it that? What was enfiladed? Certainly not Pale, not Moon's Spawn. The mages themselves? If so, then who did the enfilading? This terminology may have more to it than immediately meets the eye... -- mal)

http://www.aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/...ionary/enfilade

Quote

Main Entry:
1en·fi·lade Listen to the pronunciation of 1enfilade
Pronunciation:
\ˈen-fə-ˌlād, -ˌläd\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French, from enfiler to thread, enfilade, from Old French, to thread, from en- + fil thread — more at file
Date:
circa 1730

1 : an interconnected group of rooms arranged usually in a row with each room opening into the next 2 : gunfire directed from a flanking position along the length of an enemy battle line

http://en.wikipedia....de_and_defilade

Quote

Enfilade and defilade are concepts in military tactics used to describe a military formation's exposure to enemy fire. In addition, enfilade fire is used to describe gunfire directed against an "enfiladed" formation or position. The words themselves come from French (enfiler - to skewer; défiler - to scroll).[1]

Enfilade fire is also commonly known in English as "flanking fire".

There was a hell of a lot of flanking fire going on during that engagement so I think the name explains itself.

[malthaussen]

Ya know, as soon as I wrote that postscipt, I thought to myself that someone would take it upon himself to define the word while ignoring the point. I should have followed my instincts, and added "and yes, dear reader, I DO know what the word means."

That having been said, I couldn't disagree with you more, Apt. The point of enflilade fire is that it is *directed* onto an enemy's flank. (See the definitions you quote) It is not collateral damage or friendly fire. It is a form of attack specifically targeted at a specific vulnerability. Hence my questions "who was enfiladed" and "who did the enfilading?" Answer those questions, and you answer the OP's question.

The fact that it is called the Sorcerous Enfilade by "future historians" of the Empire leads me to suspect that there was, in fact, some *intent* in the casualties. Which is to say, it was no accident. Mind you, this assumes that SE was using the term with intent, and not just because it sounds cool. Stipulating that, we are left with the questions "who was enfiladed" and "who were the enfiladers?" In answering these questions, we can ignore Rake altogether, since he was neither flanked nor a flanker. Which means that the source of the enfilade (and the target) HAD to be the Malazans, or some subset thereof. This doesn't lead us to an answer -- but it does tell us that there is an answer to be found. Is this clear?

-- Mal

[D'rek]

I figured it was an enfilade in that this was the Siege of Pale, Pale being the primary target and so striking Moon's Spawn directly constituted a flanking attack, whereas previously the Malazans had tried to attack Pale directly by Claw, magic, soldiers and famine...