[tiam]

how does vaiski do it? maybe hes rain man or something.
Maybe then that his daughter was there to lure dassem to the chaining. Maybe he took part as hood had his daughter. The hood put his daughter in deadhouse as leverage,like i said before, but dassem broke the bonds. However he wont go after hood as hood has still got his daughter.

That makes sense doesnt it?

[Dolorous Menhir]

no. why would Hood hide the daughter in the Deadhouse, of all places? Dassem is a close friend of two of the few people with access to the place. I don't understand what happened, but your theory requires Hood to be really stupid.

I don't see it.

[Set'alahd Crool]

I'm sure Dassem brought his newly dead daughter to the azath. She's dead, so Hood has her soul, but Dassem retrieved her body and put it in the one place time couldn't reach it. Like I said, I think he's going after Hood with his nice new unbreakable(in his hands) sword, vengeance, to get....vengeance. He might hope he can get his daughter's soul back, and figured he'd need her body if he succeeded.

[Dolorous Menhir]

This may be a stupid question, but who/what actually killed her?

I thought she was still alive and in a coma of some kind when I read it.

[tiam]

i actually thought she was still alive. as to d menhirs argument that hood would have to be really stupid if youve read NOK youll know that kellenved and dancer probably wouldnt go bac especially now the gurdians changed.
(note is this a spoiler)

[deegee]

I always thought Dassem's daughter was Lostara Yil....wow I could be totally wrong though....just that I remember reading something in DG that made me think that...will try to find the passage

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dassem's daughter was the body found in the Azath by Fiddler & company in DG. Nothing to do with Lostara Yil.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Hetan;62225 said:

Shadowthrone is nervous around all other ascendants

Hehehe....so very true. An interesting point. Do we know for sure if Dassem's died yet? I mean the "die = ascend" sort of die. Or is he just a really powerful mortal? I guess he may have taken one of those other "many and varied paths to ascendancy" that're mentioned. Just curious, as this may aslo altar how he gets his power.

[Illuyankas]

I'm not sure what power he's gotten from being an awesome swordsman, but he is worshipped as Dessembrae so is by default an Ascendant, as well as a god.

Are we still agreed on 'all gods are Ascendants, but not all Ascendants are gods' or has that changed?

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I'm not sure. Don't forget though, that Rake is worshipped as a god (by the Bluerose) and also that, as far as we know, Brood got all his power from just being awsome (yes he does have the hammer, but I'm presuming that he had awsome power first, then was given the responsibility of the hammer). And we also know that the Seguleh First is far from just an ordinary old "awsome swordsman". Plus Dassem was in the service of Hood, and may have gained a good start to his power there.

Also, if he is a god, it would then be presumed that he has a realm. Which realm/where did it come from (all the other ascendents seem to have ascended to a pre-existing realm)

[Illuyankas]

Rake is worshipped, but doesn't accept it - so he doesn't get the (small) power boost from that, but doesn't get the associated weaknesses either - and just uses his strength from being the son of the creator of all life in the Malaz universe, Brood was extremely strong before Burn gave him the hammer, and we haven't seen if Dassem has a usable realm yet.

[deegee]

Dolorous Menhir;177763 said:

Dassem's daughter was the body found in the Azath by Fiddler & company in DG. Nothing to do with Lostara Yil.

Ooh, yeah I checked, you're right dude,...Do you know what the daughter's name is? Or have we not found out yet? (Forgive me, I have just re-read DG in an attempt to get back on track ---SO much stuff happens I can't remember all the events)

[Haplo2]

Here is the text straight from Deadhouse Gates, U.S. paperback version, page 726:

Upon opening the door, they entered the tower's ground floor. A stone staircase spiraled up from its center. At the foot of the saddlebacked steps lay another body, a young, dark-skinned woman who looked as if she had been placed there but an hour before. She was dressed in what were clearly underclothes, though the armor that had once covered them was nowhere to be seen. Vicious wounds crisscrossed her slight form.

Apsalar approached, crouched down and rested a hand on the girl's shoulder. "I know her," she whispered.

"Eh?" Rellock growled.

"The memory of the one who possessed me, Father," she said. "His mortal memory--"

"Dancer," Fiddler said.

She nodded. "This is Dassem Ultor's daughter. The First Sword recovered her after Hood was done using her, and brought her here, it seems."

"Before breaking his vow to Hood--"

"Aye, before Dassem cursed the god he once served."

"That was years ago, Apsalar," Fiddler said.

"I know."

They were silent, all studying the frail young woman lying at the foot of the stairs. Mappo shifted Icarium's weight in his arms, as if uneasy with the echo he knew he had become, even though it was understood that he would not do with his burden what Dassem Ultor had done.

[Dancer+]

Well that implies that it wasn't Dancer who put the body there, or in fact Dassem Ultor, in explicit memory of Dancer's (if Apsalar has access to all of Dancer's memories)

Interesting that Hood used Dassem Ultor's daughter, in what way? Perhaps in response to the chaining like has been suggested. A sacrifice. Does that make the daughter particularly powerful...Strange that she would be chosen, if anyone could be used as a sacrifice. I wonder what Hood thought Dassem's response would be.

[Haplo2]

Quote

Well that implies that it wasn't Dancer who put the body there, or in fact Dassem Ultor

But it expressly states that Dassem took her back from Hood, or at least wherever Hood left her, and took her to Tremorlor.

The First Sword recovered her after Hood was done using her, and brought her here, it seems

[Dancer+]

It only seemed that way, which suggests that we only know that Dassem Ultor took the body and afterwards it got there. I'm not saying Dassem Ultor didn't put the body there, i'm just saying that it likely isn't within Dancer's memory.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I still think Dassem's daughter was in a stasis, like Vorcan & Rallick Nom. Her wounds didn't seem to be fatal, and if you read the passage where Fiddler finds her, it never clearly says "corpse" or "dead body." This seems like an important omission to me.

[Haplo2]

Dolorous Menhir;191103 said:

I still think Dassem's daughter was in a stasis, like Vorcan & Rallick Nom. Her wounds didn't seem to be fatal, and if you read the passage where Fiddler finds her, it never clearly says "corpse" or "dead body." This seems like an important omission to me.

I agree. I believe that's why Dassem left her there, so she wouldn't die. That way he has time to do whatever it is he thinks he needs to do for her.

At least this text clears up the question of who put her in Tremorlor. It wasn't Dancer or Kellanved since Dancer's memory was where the info came from, and it wasn't Hood because Dancer's memory says that Dassem recovered her from Hood, or at least after Hood was done with her.

[Danyah]

CRAZY (improbable) THEORY: but I like it. Dassem joined the Crimson Guard, became an Avowed, thus undead, cheats Hood, Fights Laseen, and spars with Skinner. Great.