[Abyss]

Andorion, on 03 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

...

Reading Darkness at Sethanon.
Anyone else feel there is too much of Jimmy the Hand in proportion to his actual contributions?

Not really, he's sort of central to the story if not the actual events.
Also, with Pug and Tom growed/powered up, the story still kind of needed a spunky kid to lighten things up a touch and give the younger readers a vcharacter they could semi-identify with among all the uber competent super powered adults.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 03 December 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yeah I really put the pedal to the floor by my standards yesterday. I was just ready to end that beast. Took 67 days. I will sing Diana's praises. Yes she writes some lovey dovey shit in these books and unfortunately bk 4 had the most frustrating "high school lvl drama fuck and fight with the snap of your finger" but weaves an extremely well done story that should NEVER have been misplaced in the Romance genre. This is pure fantasy with tender loving fucking mixed with the most brutal grimdark I've ever read. Seriously this woman turns my stomach which is something that Lawrence, Abercrombie or Bakker haven't done to me from what I've read of them. I think they could actually take lessons from Diana.

More people should read Outlander! I think most of y'all would be surprised by it.

Huh.... well, okay, i'm willing to give it a *sees cover reads blurbs notes section in bookstore vomits inside own mouth goes to read sf war comics*.

[JPK]

Briar King, on 03 December 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

I really recommend people try out bk 1 for real.

So now I’m free to start Broken Earth 1 but I’m gonna TRY and hold off for a day/week so I can really chip at the fantastic book that is Stonewielder. I’m only just into the 310’s of it. Would love to finish it alone but I don’t think that will be likely with how bad I want to start BE.

You should polish off Stonewielder first BK. Broken Earth is a series that deserves your full attention when you get to it.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 03 December 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

Briar King, on 03 December 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

I really recommend people try out bk 1 for real.

So now I'm free to start Broken Earth 1 but I'm gonna TRY and hold off for a day/week so I can really chip at the fantastic book that is Stonewielder. I'm only just into the 310's of it. Would love to finish it alone but I don't think that will be likely with how bad I want to start BE.

You should polish off Stonewielder first BK. Broken Earth is a series that deserves your full attention when you get to it.

And SW deserves your full attention while you finish it.

Tho i totally get that feeling of wanting to dig into a series that's supposed to be great and youve got the whole thing just sitting there.

[End of Disc One]

You should start a Safehold reread first, then start Broken Earth. Then finish Stonewielder.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Maark Abbott, on 03 December 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

Still can't bring myself to pick up a book. It's gotten to a stage now where I feel like I'm not going to be describing myself as a reader soon.

What about non fiction?

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 03 December 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

now I get antsy when I solo.

They make an ointment for that.

[Macros]

Abyss, on 03 December 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Andorion, on 03 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

...

Reading Darkness at Sethanon.
Anyone else feel there is too much of Jimmy the Hand in proportion to his actual contributions?

Not really, he's sort of central to the story if not the actual events.
Also, with Pug and Tom growed/powered up, the story still kind of needed a spunky kid to lighten things up a touch and give the younger readers a vcharacter they could semi-identify with among all the uber competent super powered adults.

He's like a much more likeable Silk. [/Abyssbaiting]

I think with the super powers removed from play for much of Silverthorn and Sethanon, Jimmy's brain becomes kind of pivotal for Arutha and co in places. And as abyss says; the target audience was probably (at the time) younger males, so having this kickass kid dragged up from the dredges, up who didn't need magic, physical strength or swordsmanship to play at the big table was a great window into the world. Someone kids could, if not identify with, at very least fit themselves into the story around (see Locky as well for this) I think at 15 we all wanted to be Jimmy on some level. (How many D&D rogues or thief's have been built on his back??). His character progression onwards in the setting is actually reasonably solid and his final version has a feel that fits his life choices.

[worry]

Abyss, on 03 December 2018 - 03:33 PM, said:

Just finished REJOICE! A KNIFE TO THE HEART.


More in the ded-thread

We're waaaaiiiting!

[Andorion]

Macros, on 03 December 2018 - 08:50 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Andorion, on 03 December 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

...

Reading Darkness at Sethanon.
Anyone else feel there is too much of Jimmy the Hand in proportion to his actual contributions?

Not really, he's sort of central to the story if not the actual events.
Also, with Pug and Tom growed/powered up, the story still kind of needed a spunky kid to lighten things up a touch and give the younger readers a vcharacter they could semi-identify with among all the uber competent super powered adults.

He's like a much more likeable Silk. [/Abyssbaiting]

I think with the super powers removed from play for much of Silverthorn and Sethanon, Jimmy's brain becomes kind of pivotal for Arutha and co in places. And as abyss says; the target audience was probably (at the time) younger males, so having this kickass kid dragged up from the dredges, up who didn't need magic, physical strength or swordsmanship to play at the big table was a great window into the world. Someone kids could, if not identify with, at very least fit themselves into the story around (see Locky as well for this) I think at 15 we all wanted to be Jimmy on some level. (How many D&D rogues or thief's have been built on his back??). His character progression onwards in the setting is actually reasonably solid and his final version has a feel that fits his life choices.

Yeah I get Jimmy's audience appeal, I just think that Jimmy is sort of naturally more useful in large urban scenarios as opposed to the type of storyline we are getting in Sethanon.

[Maark Abbott]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 03 December 2018 - 02:36 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 03 December 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

Still can't bring myself to pick up a book. It's gotten to a stage now where I feel like I'm not going to be describing myself as a reader soon.

I haven't read anything for the past month since moving into Manhattan

I think I've been out for about three months now? I've made attempts to get back to it but it's just... ehhhh.

[Andorion]

Finished Sethanon
Well that got big.

I really enjoyed Arutha's storyline. Those were some detailed and well executed military manuevres.

I am a bit mystified by Bug's storyline.

Spoiler

This is the third book of a huge saga and they have apparently met, and beaten the big bad. Plus Bug has literally been to creation and beyond. I don't really see how you derive additional threats from here.

I note that later series titles - Chaoswar, Wrath of a Mad God refer to events that happened in the deep past. So are those books set that far back?
Also, on another very different note, I finished the new release - Dracul by Dacre Stoker. This is a really good read and a fascinating peek into the Dracula mythos.

[Macros]

Andorion, on 04 December 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

Finished Sethanon
Well that got big.

I really enjoyed Arutha's storyline. Those were some detailed and well executed military manuevres.

I am a bit mystified by Bug's storyline.

Spoiler

This is the third book of a huge saga and they have apparently met, and beaten the big bad. Plus Bug has literally been to creation and beyond. I don't really see how you derive additional threats from here.

I note that later series titles - Chaoswar, Wrath of a Mad God refer to events that happened in the deep past. So are those books set that far back?

everything happens more or less chronologically. You'll see a few of the main names continue through the years, but for the more mortal protagonists is descendants (Not really a spoiler, every blurb will give you enough to figure that). Its RAFO, there's a few fairly contrived situations later in books that keep Pug and co out of the game at places. What I would say is that the events in the Riftwar Trilogy are part of a much larger problem (set of problems?) that the universe at large is dealing with, by the end it does become a bit "how big and bad can we get here???" of itself. which is why for enjoyment I'd go with my usual reco list (throw in Murder in Lamut to keep QT and Abyss happy (I think it was them) but go beyond Rage of a Demon King at your own peril.


ETA - the books only go back in the sense the troubles they face are millenia in the making but you keep moving forward in a more or less Linear timeline (minus a few flashback and creation myths etc)

also ETA - Siege of Armengar is always fun to reread for me. and if you do continue in Midkemia it has a direct tie in to events in a later book (RAFO)
spoilers for people not past the riftwar

Spoiler

the destruction of Krondor, disappointingly (but understandably) short and brutal, but a fantastic end for Jimmy and Gamina

This post has been edited by Macros: 04 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

[Gabriele]

Abyss, on 03 December 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Briar King, on 03 December 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yeah I really put the pedal to the floor by my standards yesterday. I was just ready to end that beast. Took 67 days. I will sing Diana's praises. Yes she writes some lovey dovey shit in these books and unfortunately bk 4 had the most frustrating "high school lvl drama fuck and fight with the snap of your finger" but weaves an extremely well done story that should NEVER have been misplaced in the Romance genre. This is pure fantasy with tender loving fucking mixed with the most brutal grimdark I've ever read. Seriously this woman turns my stomach which is something that Lawrence, Abercrombie or Bakker haven't done to me from what I've read of them. I think they could actually take lessons from Diana.

More people should read Outlander! I think most of y'all would be surprised by it.

Huh.... well, okay, i'm willing to give it a *sees cover reads blurbs notes section in bookstore vomits inside own mouth goes to read sf war comics*.

Since when has a blurb ever had anything to do with the actual book?

The 5th volume has a bit of filler, but not by the fault of Diana. It was printed before she got the chance to cut some 40K she wanted to cut. You know, big seller, a few years since the last book and all that ....

[QuickTidal]

So I took many of you forumites advice and used my LAST free Audible credit to buy N.K. Jemesin's THE FIFTH SEASON a few days back.

This was a mistake. It was a big mistake.

I'll go into spoilers so people who don't want to read my rant, can safely ignore it and anything I might say spoiler-wise will be hidden.

Spoiler

Let's get the technical out of the way first.

I started it only to find out it's written in Present Tense. Goddamn do I LOATHE present tense. I've only tolerated it in exactly one series (Hunger Games) and even in that series, which I enjoyed, I still found it largely grating.

I kept on through the prologue because you all said this was a great series...aside from the prologue being a whole lot of tell, don't show...it was fine I guess, if overly wry and florid with prose.

Then I hit Chapter 1. Second Person. SECOND PERSON. Are you ****ing kidding me with this nonsense? If there is one thing I hate more than Present Tense in fiction, it's Second bloody person. Don't put ME in as your avatar by saying "You". I don't want to be your avatar. I want to be the audience. Second person is the equivalent of those murder mystery dinner places where you have to be involved in the fake mystery proceedings while you eat. No, I just want to eat while YOU tell ME a story. Ugh.

I kept going even though I want to delete this thing off my device.

And then we get to grim things, and evil things, and they only get grimmer and more evil. Bleak would be an understatement. Nothing that occurs in this book is in any way uplifting. The first half of this book (that's as far as I've made it) is so unrelentingly bleak that I can't imagine why anyone would openly choose to read it. It's like Angela's Ashes, every time I think it's going to get better, it gets worse instead.

Fuck this book. I'm stopping at the halfway mark. I'm not built for this narrative. Her writing is good, if you like the overtly descriptive, but I can't stand the tense or person it's written in....and I'm not sure who she thinks she's hiding the fact that all three protagonist plot lines are the same person, because it's obvious.

Done. Man, what a waste.

Luckily I had my copy of HoC with me in my bag to fill the gap after stopping this stone cold (<----see what I did there?) atrocity.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 05 December 2018 - 02:33 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

So I took many of you forumites advice and used my LAST free Audible credit to buy N.K. Jemesin's THE FIFTH SEASON a few days back.

This was a mistake. It was a big mistake.

I'll go into spoilers so people who don't want to read my rant, can safely ignore it and anything I might say spoiler-wise will be hidden.

Spoiler

Let's get the technical out of the way first.

I started it only to find out it's written in Present Tense. Goddamn do I LOATHE present tense. I've only tolerated it in exactly one series (Hunger Games) and even in that series, which I enjoyed, I still found it largely grating.

I kept on through the prologue because you all said this was a great series...aside from the prologue being a whole lot of tell, don't show...it was fine I guess, if overly wry and florid with prose.

Then I hit Chapter 1. Second Person. SECOND PERSON. Are you ****ing kidding me with this nonsense? If there is one thing I hate more than Present Tense in fiction, it's Second bloody person. Don't put ME in as your avatar by saying "You". I don't want to be your avatar. I want to be the audience. Second person is the equivalent of those murder mystery dinner places where you have to be involved in the fake mystery proceedings while you eat. No, I just want to eat while YOU tell ME a story. Ugh.

I kept going even though I want to delete this thing off my device.

And then we get to grim things, and evil things, and they only get grimmer and more evil. Bleak would be an understatement. Nothing that occurs in this book is in any way uplifting. The first half of this book (that's as far as I've made it) is so unrelentingly bleak that I can't imagine why anyone would openly choose to read it. It's like Angela's Ashes, every time I think it's going to get better, it gets worse instead.

Fuck this book. I'm stopping at the halfway mark. I'm not built for this narrative. Her writing is good, if you like the overtly descriptive, but I can't stand the tense or person it's written in....and I'm not sure who she thinks she's hiding the fact that all three protagonist plot lines are the same person, because it's obvious.

Done. Man, what a waste.

Luckily I had my copy of HoC with me in my bag to fill the gap after stopping this stone cold (<----see what I did there?) atrocity.

Fair enough. The two things that bugged you, the writing style with shifting povs, and the 'bleakness', are very much integral parts of the series. I get that the pov thing doesn't work for you, and hey, you're not feeling like reading thru the (utterly bleak) bleakness to see what happens then this series was not going to be your bag. All good. That's your Downton Abbey loving Tyler Swift listening opinion and you're wrong entitled to go watch the Bachlorette or something .

I will disagree with your critique of the entire concept of an author using something other than third person narration tho'. There are more than one way to tell a story. Who is speaking, and who they are speaking to, is actually important.Jemisin's writing here, and specifically the shifting povs and how that is used as a device in the storytelling, is one of the best parts of the series specifically because it does not 'allow' the audience to passively 'watch'. Didn't work for you, ok, hey no worries you close minded mouth-breather . But it's not 'nonsense' by any stretch.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

I will disagree with your critique of the entire concept of an author using something other than third person narration tho'. There are more than one way to tell a story. Who is speaking, and who they are speaking to, is actually important.Jemisin's writing here, and specifically the shifting povs and how that is used as a device in the storytelling, is one of the best parts of the series specifically because it does not 'allow' the audience to passively 'watch'. Didn't work for you, ok, hey no worries you close minded mouth-breather . But it's not 'nonsense' by any stretch.

I like 1st (because though it puts me in the head of the protagonist, I'm still only passively there), and 3rd because well (it's a storyteller telling a story to me)...but 2nd asks FAR too much of me. That's not storytelling in my view. That's someone saying "Hey, we're putting on a play, instead of watching and enjoying, why don't you put on this shitty costume and have a nightmare with us."

Ugh. Just no.

[JPK]

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

So I took many of you forumites advice and used my LAST free Audible credit to buy N.K. Jemesin's THE FIFTH SEASON a few days back.

This was a mistake. It was a big mistake.

I'll go into spoilers so people who don't want to read my rant, can safely ignore it and anything I might say spoiler-wise will be hidden.

Spoiler

Let's get the technical out of the way first.

I started it only to find out it's written in Present Tense. Goddamn do I LOATHE present tense. I've only tolerated it in exactly one series (Hunger Games) and even in that series, which I enjoyed, I still found it largely grating.

I kept on through the prologue because you all said this was a great series...aside from the prologue being a whole lot of tell, don't show...it was fine I guess, if overly wry and florid with prose.

Then I hit Chapter 1. Second Person. SECOND PERSON. Are you ****ing kidding me with this nonsense? If there is one thing I hate more than Present Tense in fiction, it's Second bloody person. Don't put ME in as your avatar by saying "You". I don't want to be your avatar. I want to be the audience. Second person is the equivalent of those murder mystery dinner places where you have to be involved in the fake mystery proceedings while you eat. No, I just want to eat while YOU tell ME a story. Ugh.

I kept going even though I want to delete this thing off my device.

And then we get to grim things, and evil things, and they only get grimmer and more evil. Bleak would be an understatement. Nothing that occurs in this book is in any way uplifting. The first half of this book (that's as far as I've made it) is so unrelentingly bleak that I can't imagine why anyone would openly choose to read it. It's like Angela's Ashes, every time I think it's going to get better, it gets worse instead.

Fuck this book. I'm stopping at the halfway mark. I'm not built for this narrative. Her writing is good, if you like the overtly descriptive, but I can't stand the tense or person it's written in....and I'm not sure who she thinks she's hiding the fact that all three protagonist plot lines are the same person, because it's obvious.

Done. Man, what a waste.

Luckily I had my copy of HoC with me in my bag to fill the gap after stopping this stone cold (<----see what I did there?) atrocity.

Fair enough. The two things that bugged you, the writing style with shifting povs, and the 'bleakness', are very much integral parts of the series. I get that the pov thing doesn't work for you, and hey, you're not feeling like reading thru the (utterly bleak) bleakness to see what happens then this series was not going to be your bag. All good. That's your Downton Abbey loving Tyler Swift listening opinion and you're wrong entitled to go watch the Bachlorette or something .

Yes, it's bleak, but I never found it bleaker than pretty much any MBotF storyline you could pick.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

I will disagree with your critique of the entire concept of an author using something other than third person narration tho'. There are more than one way to tell a story. Who is speaking, and who they are speaking to, is actually important.Jemisin's writing here, and specifically the shifting povs and how that is used as a device in the storytelling, is one of the best parts of the series specifically because it does not 'allow' the audience to passively 'watch'. Didn't work for you, ok, hey no worries you close minded mouth-breather . But it's not 'nonsense' by any stretch.

I like 1st (because though it puts me in the head of the protagonist, I'm still only passively there), and 3rd because well (it's a storyteller telling a story to me)...but 2nd asks FAR too much of me. That's not storytelling in my view. That's someone saying "Hey, we're putting on a play, instead of watching and enjoying, why don't you put on this shitty costume and have a nightmare with us."

Ugh. Just no.

Aww too bad QT. I get that these things dont work for you and reading a book where the basic narrative tropes don't work for you is hell. I have ditched entire series because of this.

For me the second person added a rather funny level of intimacy to the story. I felt like Jemisin was talking to me.

[QuickTidal]

JPK, on 05 December 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

So I took many of you forumites advice and used my LAST free Audible credit to buy N.K. Jemesin's THE FIFTH SEASON a few days back.

This was a mistake. It was a big mistake.

I'll go into spoilers so people who don't want to read my rant, can safely ignore it and anything I might say spoiler-wise will be hidden.

Spoiler

Let's get the technical out of the way first.

I started it only to find out it's written in Present Tense. Goddamn do I LOATHE present tense. I've only tolerated it in exactly one series (Hunger Games) and even in that series, which I enjoyed, I still found it largely grating.

I kept on through the prologue because you all said this was a great series...aside from the prologue being a whole lot of tell, don't show...it was fine I guess, if overly wry and florid with prose.

Then I hit Chapter 1. Second Person. SECOND PERSON. Are you ****ing kidding me with this nonsense? If there is one thing I hate more than Present Tense in fiction, it's Second bloody person. Don't put ME in as your avatar by saying "You". I don't want to be your avatar. I want to be the audience. Second person is the equivalent of those murder mystery dinner places where you have to be involved in the fake mystery proceedings while you eat. No, I just want to eat while YOU tell ME a story. Ugh.

I kept going even though I want to delete this thing off my device.

And then we get to grim things, and evil things, and they only get grimmer and more evil. Bleak would be an understatement. Nothing that occurs in this book is in any way uplifting. The first half of this book (that's as far as I've made it) is so unrelentingly bleak that I can't imagine why anyone would openly choose to read it. It's like Angela's Ashes, every time I think it's going to get better, it gets worse instead.

Fuck this book. I'm stopping at the halfway mark. I'm not built for this narrative. Her writing is good, if you like the overtly descriptive, but I can't stand the tense or person it's written in....and I'm not sure who she thinks she's hiding the fact that all three protagonist plot lines are the same person, because it's obvious.

Done. Man, what a waste.

Luckily I had my copy of HoC with me in my bag to fill the gap after stopping this stone cold (<----see what I did there?) atrocity.

Fair enough. The two things that bugged you, the writing style with shifting povs, and the 'bleakness', are very much integral parts of the series. I get that the pov thing doesn't work for you, and hey, you're not feeling like reading thru the (utterly bleak) bleakness to see what happens then this series was not going to be your bag. All good. That's your Downton Abbey loving Tyler Swift listening opinion and you're wrong entitled to go watch the Bachlorette or something .

Yes, it's bleak, but I never found it bleaker than pretty much any MBotF storyline you could pick.

Eh, disagree. Malazan has a lot of uplifting stuff in it. Heroic stuff. Stuff that makes you cheer. This had none of that. Not even a whisper.

A balance of grim with non-grim is fine.

This was all grim.