[Whisperzzzzzzz]

So far, The Dragonbone Chair has more filler than I would have expected — I'm like a third of the way through and Simon hasn't even made it to Naglimund. Though, since I've also read Williams' Otherland books, I probably shouldn't have expected M,S,T to have any less filler...

It's a beautiful day and I don't want to spend it skipping passages, so I'm taking a break to read Brust's Book of Dzur (comprising Dzur and Jhegaala).

[Zetubal]

 Puck, on 31 May 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

Welllll, looks like nothing has changed on the German fantasy lit scene since I stopped bothering with it. Funny review, though. One could almost get the idea that the village's name is self-reflection but unfortunately the rest of the thing doesn't sound like it.

I haven't (or hadn't) read German fantasy novels in a while but my girlfriend's father has made me curious to check out some authors...don't think that the overall quality of stories is worse than anywhere else, but as of now I lack the insight to back that assumption up.
I actually thought long and hard about whether the novel could have been intended as a parody of fantasy to some extent. Or, at least, as commentary on established tropes of the genre. In the end, there's really no way of knowing for sure, but even if the novel was intended in either of those ways, I don't think it turned out well. Even if it were intentionally bad or odd, a severe lack of redeeming qualities remains. The way characters act and think isn't hyperbolic or ironic enough to be funny or deliver some insight into existing tropes.

Sometimes a silly thing is, unfortunately, just a silly thing.

 polishgenius, on 02 June 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

Who Fears Death is a phenomenal book but it's harsh.

Hey man, that's the second time I've read a post of yours where you praise Okorafor. I'd like to check her novels out but I'm lost as to what would be a good starting point to see what she has to offer. Any recommendations?

[polishgenius]

 Zetubal, on 02 June 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

Hey man, that's the second time I've read a post of yours where you praise Okorafor. I'd like to check her novels out but I'm lost as to what would be a good starting point to see what she has to offer. Any recommendations?

I've not read any of her YA books, which seem like they might also be a good intro, so I can only go from the three adult books of hers I've read. Out of those:


Who Fears Death is definitely the strongest novel but as mentioned it is really, really grim in places (it deals with themes of sexual violence, racial oppression, and genocide). That it also has its moments of joy are part of why it's so strong, but it's not necessarily a read for every situation.


Lagoon is, while still in places quite angry, also a much more celebratory novel about what Okorafor loves about Nigeria (through an SF-F lens of course) and generally lighter fare.

So basically it depends on whether you want to put the best foot forward or start with something a bit lighter. Though one thing to bear in mind about Lagoon is that a fair bit of the dialogue is in West African Pidgin, and while the book does provide you with a glossary and it's never anything too strenuous or overwhelming, it's something to keep in mind especially if English isn't your first language - it might mean you need to put in more work than you might expect for the dialogue of certain characters. I don't think it'd be a problem for you really but should mention it.


The Book of Phoenix is a prequel to Who Fears Death that would somewhat spoil some of the mysteries about that novel so don't start with that.

[Gorefest]

After reading the first three books of the wheel of time series back in the early nineties, I decided to give it another go. Considering that it is so widely hailed as one of the greatest fantasy series and feats of worldbuilding, getting to the end of the Eye of the World I am actually a bit shocked at how paint by numbers and young adult it feels. Not at all what I remembered from it. Oh well, I guess it is entertaining enough so far.

[Chance]

Started Lord of the Silver Bow have been hearing about these books for a long time so expectations are high.

[Puck]

 I am the Bachelorette, on 03 June 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

Finished Fitz 7. Can say easily it’s my least fav. Don’t even know where to begin but I had some massive problems with this one...

Spoiler

not to fond of Bee as a POV character. I like her but damn I got pissed during her parts wanting to get back to Fitz. I didn’t like Nettle or Dutiful in this one bit. The Fool is still scared to take his clothes off in front of people and I think I will wind up very pissed off if Starling was right all along and he’s a she and when Fitz finds out they bang like wild rabbits happily ever after. Ugh please no

Starting 8 but not excited and that sucks for me to admit that.

Funnily that was my reaction to the end of Tawny Man. I mean

Spoiler

Hobb spends an entire trilogy building a narrative about how love comes in all kinds of forms and how special the relationship between Fitz and the Fool is, only to backpaddle as soon as Molly becomes free to roll around in the hay with Fitz again, they bang like rabbits and go on to build themselves a life with kids, a house and probably a dog or three, and everyone, including the Fool, is expected to cheer and throw flowers.

This brought the trilogy down from 'well, not her best but I'd read more when in the mood' to 'now that's a steaming pile of hypocrisy if I ever saw one' for me. I'm sure there's a post here somewhere from the time I finished Tawny Man expounding how this is a pattern with Hobb, and one I cannot stand.

That, though, is not meant to bash Hobb, by the way. Just something I find peculiar and rather annoying.


On topic, though: after reading a couple of non-fiction books, in a fit of 'what the hell', I started reading Fire and Fury. Seriously, this would be pure comedy if it wasn't that sad.

[Tiste Simeon]

 Chance, on 03 June 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Started Lord of the Silver Bow have been hearing about these books for a long time so expectations are high.

Yes! Great series! Macros kept telling me to read them, definitely worth it.

[Zetubal]

So... I just finished the second book ot the series I previously talked about in this thread. The sequel to "Der Totengräbersohn" (Gravedigger's Son), simply titled "Der Totengräbersohn 2" was, for the most part an improvement on the awkward first novel.
The general narrative style seems much less stilted, at times there's even some narrative flow to the whole thing. Just a few things I'd like to comment on:
One thing that I forgot to rag on about the previous novel is that it lacked a proper ending. That, and it lacked any arcs at all. But the lack of an ending is what bugged me more. The novel just abruptly stopped after one of many mundane conversations. No warning, no conclusion (not much to conclude, though) - it just...ended. Accordingly, part 2 takes off right after the ending of part 1. And by that I mean that it basically continues the same scene. Probably sucks for anyone who picks the 2nd book up a while after having read the first one, but hey, that's life. Much to my surprise, Part 2 has self-contained plots, which end properly. Even the ending of the 2nd book isn't that abrupt. While I don't like that it ends on a cliffhanger, it's a fitting intermediate conclusion that generates some curiosity as to what might happen next.
As for the characters, thankfully the awkward silliness isn't as bad in the second novel. That's not to say that it's completely gone, though. Farin, Aross (the orphan girl), and some of the villains all have some really cringy lines of dialogue. The best way I can think of to give you an idea of how far things have improved is this: After this novel, I am convinced that Farin actually isn't severely mentally handicapped but rather just a simpleton. I still get the feeling that this was not Feuerbach's intention, but that's how it comes across.
Next thing is clichés. In my previous review I already mentioned that the first book was possibly the most derivative, generic fantasy story I've ever read. Now, in hindsight that's not true. The 2nd book is much more derivative. It's not an exaggeration to say that every character and every event can be explained in terms of tropes. To name a few: There's a grand tournament, a character participates by posing as someone else (mysterious knight trope), there's a prophecy, there's a bishop who appears pious on outside but is corrupt and power-hungry on the inside, there are three crime bosses: a dumb brute, a perverted psychopath, and a narcissist who sugarcoats his threats, there's an asian man with a funny accent who uses acrobatic unarmed combat, there are pirates, a friend betrays a friend, a former rival is humbled and becomes a friend, keeping a secret leads to a temporary falling-out between master and pupil, said falling-out is remedied when the pupil saves the day, a mysterious stranger who runs into the main character turns out to be a major player in the ongoing events, there are demon-worshipers who kill for the thrill of it, an orphan girl always pays her debts ... I could probably name twice as many points again - and don't forget that we're talking about a meager 300 page novel here.
To top it off, toward the end of the novel a major character has a change of heart that is so jarring, it almost made me stop reading. I kind of have to spoil the thing to make my point clear, so you've been warned. If you don't wanna be spoiled, skip to the next paragraph. So...Farin's master, Emicho, has one explicit goal in life: He wants to kill the demon that once possessed and betrayed his father, which led to that man's death. He's declined a prestigious position, spent decades (and a fortune) learning everything about demons and how to kill them. On several occasions he mentions to Farin that nothing will stop him from exacting vengeance upon the demon and that he willingly accepts that killing the demon will also kill its host. Now, as readers of the first novel, we immediately know that Farin is the demon's host. Now...when Emicho learns that at the end of the novel, what's his reaction? He's okay with it and forfeits his revenge. It's not even a struggle. He's just like "Eyyy, that demon's in you, right? Well, I guess I'm cool with that."

There's also a ton of stuff that either doesn't add up is incredibly contrived. Characters just constantly happen to be at the right place at the right time, find each other in humongous cities in next to no time etc.. Half of that could arguably be justified by the fact that Aross is now clairvoyant, but that strikes me as a cheap excuse for lazy writing. As for the stuff that doesn't make sense, the fact that nobody finds out about Farin being possessed is easily the worst. Emicho is probably the worst demonhunter of all time. Let me give you just three examples of things that Farin, an uneducated peasant, who never received formal education or combat training and lived his entire life in a shack outside a tiny village, does while under Emicho's watchful eye: 1) He throws a spear across an area the length of a football field dead center into a target dummy - without looking where he's throwing. His explanation: It was a fluke. 2) He can suddenly read a book in a language that has been extinct for at least 600 years. Emicho openly states that no-one in his castle even knows the name of the language and that it took him years of dedicated study to piece together a handful of words. Farin reads that shit like it's a daily newspaper. His explanation: He learned it from his mum. Who was a peasant. Of such low status that she got married to a gravedigger. Ehhh... 3), and that's the best one: A hired assassin tries to stab Farin from behind with a halberd while he's reading a book. Without seeing the attack, Farin jumps, turns around, grabs the shaft of the halberd and snaps it in two. Then he rips the assassin's arm off...WITH HIS BARE HANDS. Correction: With his bare hand, since he only needs one for the job. His explanation for the fucking mess (no kidding): The assassin accidentally struck a shelf...with so much force that it broke the halberd and ripped off his arm in the process.
...And the funny thing is...Emicho buys it. No hesitation at all. It's so bad that even at the end of the novel when Farin snaps iron chains WITH HIS BARE HANDS, mutilates 6 armed man in a matter second (rips one guys throat out and takes another man's head off his shoulders - WITH HIS BARE HANDS), and opens a castle gate made of sturdy iron, which a moment ago required the strength of a dozen men, by himself...even after all of this Emicho has to ask Farin if he's possessed.



Well...that got awfully "ranty" awfully quick. Believe it or not - I actually enjoyed this novel. It's every bit as cheesy, cliche, contrived, derivative, and stupid as I make it out to be - but it's also much more of a self-contained story than its predecessor. The prose is more refined, there's actual tension at times, and even a funny joke or two. "Der Totengräbersohn 2" is a beautiful mess; it's pure unintentional trash of the so bad it's good sort. And I've already started to read the third novel in the series. Keep you posted

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 05 June 2018 - 11:01 AM

[acesn8s]

"I'm declaring this vessel in violation of laws and standards," Avasarala said. "Cotyar, you're witness to that."
"As you say, ma'am."
"All right, then. Bobbie. Get me control of this fucking ship."


I love this woman. I know something like this was coming from the show. This was so much better.

[Andorion]

 Abyss, on 02 June 2018 - 06:08 AM, said:

 Andorion, on 02 June 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

Finished Perdido Street Station
An absolutely excellent book. It was nowhere near as weird as Embassytown. I absolutely loved the world building. New Crobuzon is a gorgeously written city

You NEED to read THE SCAR now.

Messed around with some other books, they failed to grip. Going to take this advice

[Andorion]

 I am the Bachelorette, on 05 June 2018 - 04:03 AM, said:

I've yet to read any.

Maybe I ll go the same route I took with GGK and read a really disputed one 1st.

Which would be what?

I have only read 2, Perdido and Embassytown. Of these, I would always reco Perdido.

[Abyss]

 Andorion, on 05 June 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 02 June 2018 - 06:08 AM, said:

 Andorion, on 02 June 2018 - 12:15 AM, said:

Finished Perdido Street Station
An absolutely excellent book. It was nowhere near as weird as Embassytown. I absolutely loved the world building. New Crobuzon is a gorgeously written city

You NEED to read THE SCAR now.

Messed around with some other books, they failed to grip. Going to take this advice

AS YOU SHOULD.
I’m overdue to comment on THE DANDELION DYNASTY duo, but fuckit, short version: I liked them, would read the author again.
Then I started RIVER OF TEETH and holy hippofuck I LOVE THIS BOOK.
More later.

[EmperorMagus]

Reading Heart of Darkness for a class. It's surprisingly good, though a little grim.

[Puck]

 Abyss, on 05 June 2018 - 04:32 AM, said:

Then I started RIVER OF TEETH and holy hippofuck I LOVE THIS BOOK.
More later.

The entire premise is gold and I loved that book. Pity it was so short.

[JPK]

I left my paperback at work last weekend so I read the first chapter of Fool's Errand instead. Would one of you Hobb veterans do me a small favor? I'm curious about the timeline between the end of Farseer, the events in Liveship, and concluding with the opening here. I doubt want to risk spoilers, so google-fu is a hard no. If anyone's willing to assist, I'd be grateful.

[Mentalist]

Finished "A War in Crimson Embers". It was AWESOME. Maroto is the best barbarian in literature after Karsa

The lack of action in Book 2 is completely covered for. The humour is still there, and the plot resolves nicely.

gonna keep on with the compltionist kick, and read Siege Perilous , the last main "Foreworld" novel.

Not really making a lot of progress on "Ink", but that's to be expected.

[Puck]

 JPK, on 06 June 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

I left my paperback at work last weekend so I read the first chapter of Fool's Errand instead. Would one of you Hobb veterans do me a small favor? I'm curious about the timeline between the end of Farseer, the events in Liveship, and concluding with the opening here. I doubt want to risk spoilers, so google-fu is a hard no. If anyone's willing to assist, I'd be grateful.

As BK has said, it's 15 years between the end of Farseer and the start of Tawny Man. Withour spoilering it, Liveship Traders is very close in time to Tawny Man, no more than a year between them, maaaybe two, is my guess, though it's never clearly stated. You will see how it has to be close in time as Tawny Man progresses, though.

[Abyss]

 Puck, on 05 June 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 05 June 2018 - 04:32 AM, said:

Then I started RIVER OF TEETH and holy hippofuck I LOVE THIS BOOK.
More later.

The entire premise is gold and I loved that book. Pity it was so short.

Plowed straight into sequel, delaying BRIEF CASES.
HIPPOS RUUUUUULE.

[acesn8s]

Finished Caliban's War and started Abaddon's Gate. Gonna catch the show this week, I think.

[QuickTidal]

 Abyss, on 06 June 2018 - 12:09 PM, said:

 Puck, on 05 June 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 05 June 2018 - 04:32 AM, said:

Then I started RIVER OF TEETH and holy hippofuck I LOVE THIS BOOK.
More later.

The entire premise is gold and I loved that book. Pity it was so short.

HIPPOS RUUUUUULE.

Funnily enough, I only recently learned about the real thing this is concepted on (bringing Hippos to America) through an episode of 99Pi...so this sounds AMAZING. Will check out. Cheap on Kindle.

Also, you're aware there is a sequel, yes?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 06 June 2018 - 06:11 PM