[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Almost done with LOST FLEET DAUNTLESS...and enjoy both the writing, and the characters but I wonder ...

Responding to QT's questions w/out major spoilers for rest of series....


1. The relativistic elements are a major part of the space battles. Having read a pile of mil-SF where space engagements are handled more or less a la STAR WARS as if they are taking place in a small area within an atmosphere as opposed to vast distances between ships travelling at near light speeds, i really enjoyed this element of the battles, including the frustration it generates in both the reader and the characters. If you consider that 'modern' fleet and aircraft combat takes place over huge distances between weapons being fired out of sight and vectored in by satellite while operators watch on screens, it follows that in space things would be even moreso. This series builds on that.

That said, if it really irritates you, all i can say is it's less of a factor in some battles than others, but it's an ongoing thing through the series even so. I liked it.

2. The series is a fleet series. It gets into the marine elements now and then,but those are an aside (albeit at times an important aside) and as the series is primarily from Geary's POV and he's the fleet commander, that's what you get.

If you want primarily groundpounders you won't love this series. It's not ARMOR or STARSHIP TROOPERS at all.
As for 'away missions', the fleet is trying to get home, but it's not VOYAGER or BSG.... they know exactly where they are behind enemy lines.

3. Yes, but you have to wait til a later book for the explanation. It's nicely done.

So for the most part yes the series is Geary commanding space battles and dealing with the challenges of commanding a fleet from 100 years in his future that thinks he's more or less a war god. There's more to it, quite a lot more, but there are no massive land engagements, no starfighter cockpit povs and at no point does Geary lead an away mission and sheboing a green alien burlesque dancer.

There's a lot to like in this series, but if you're looking for any of the above, you may not want to bother.

Having just finished bk 6 VICTORIOUS i have to say that as a long time milSF reader this was a brilliant series imnsho. The characters are well handled, the battles are done in an original way that i really enjoyed, and it reads fast.

Everything QT raises is true and may punt this series out of some people's tastes, but for moi it was money and time well spent.

[polishgenius]

I'm currently enjoying Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie, a space opera debut with more than a few shades of Ian M Banks and Vernor Vinge about it. Curious to see how she wraps it up, but unless it's an unmitigated disaster I'll certainly be looking forward to more from this author.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 12 November 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Responding to QT's questions w/out major spoilers for rest of series....

Thanks!

Yeah, I'll keep reading, but I'm not exactly rushing out to get book 2.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 November 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Responding to QT's questions w/out major spoilers for rest of series....

Thanks!

Yeah, I'll keep reading, but I'm not exactly rushing out to get book 2.

Fair enough. For what's it's worth i suspect that with a longer gap between books some of the inertia of the series may be lost. That said the pace builds as the books continue and i'd be shocked if you got to the end of bk 3 and didn't immediately grab bk4.

I, however, already have the BEYOND THE FRONTIER sequel trilo high in the TRPFH and will probably grab the parallel LOST STARS series as well at some near point.



In the meantime however, back to Ruckley's EDINBURGH DEAD and probably starting Tidhar's Bookman Histories bk 2 CAMERA OBSCURA.

[Chance]

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

3. (Secret bother #3) - No one, on either side thought up the idea of small, agile fighters? No one? Even the fast corvette's sound like they are fairly big. No 1/2 manned fighter ships?

Space fighters are fun to read about but...generally one of the least likely stuff to appear if one applies some physics to future space combat. Now I remember it being handled somehow in the story but here is some more serious tought about it but generally boiling down to why not a missile or drone instead. http://www.projectrh...ic.php#fighters a lot of other fun stuff about how it probably works in space travel/combat.

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Thanks!

Yeah, I'll keep reading, but I'm not exactly rushing out to get book 2.

The series only gets better, I had a couple of serious complaints on the plot of the first two but staying in it for somewhat quasi-realistic space combat and the later books made it really worth it. Still its more or less looking over the shoulder of a fleet commander that aspect doesn't really change.

Quote

I, however, already have the BEYOND THE FRONTIER sequel trilo high in the TRPFH and will probably grab the parallel LOST STARS series as well at some near point.

Beyond the Frontier is significantly better then the first few .


Anyone knows another milsf series which at least nods to the laws of physics occationally. Have been looking around a bit but found nothing looking too promising?

This post has been edited by Chance: 12 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

[stone monkey]

Looks like a couple of you got here before me

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Almost done with LOST FLEET DAUNTLESS...and enjoy both the writing, and the characters but I wonder about two things:

1. The space battles are kind of meh. The whole relativistic thing irritates me. Especially how it keeps getting mentioned. "It will take ten minutes for this message to get to them and ten minutes back..." Campbell feels the need to keep telling me this over and over and over. I also never feel the threat because things aren't really happening in real time. Example:

Spoiler

Fleet jumps to Corvus system, and has time to mine the first set of Syndic ships to cross through, and then they have hours and hours to do stuff in-system before the main Syndic force arrives. I dunno, it never feels tense?

2. Is the series all these space battles? Are there ground battles, away missions to planets for stuff? I mean, in the first book the Marine team goes down to pacify a Syndic base in Corvus...but we sat up top with Geary and watched/heard about it. I kept thinking "I wanna be down there, in the thick of it!"...

3. (Secret bother #3) - No one, on either side thought up the idea of small, agile fighters? No one? Even the fast corvette's sound like they are fairly big. No 1/2 manned fighter ships?

I'm not asking if it gets better (it's very good, and easy to read)...I'm asking if it keeps this status quo for the whole time? If this whole series is Geary commanding from the bridge of the Dauntless and space battles only, I may give it up. Does it diversify and become about more than this book's mostly been about?

tbh all of the above makes it sound far more interesting to me. It might not necessarily be all that much fun from the pew-pew! perspective. But if you, like me, are nitpicky about these things then it's a refreshing change.

From my perspective:
1. It sounds more like submarine warfare to my ears than anything else, and that's hardly lacking in tension when done right. And relativity really messes with time anyway. Also, space (as per Douglas Adams) is big. Hours aren't all that much time to do things, even at high speeds - especially when you need to accelerate and decelerate to plant mines and whatnot.
2. Arguably, once you control the space in a system, planets become meaningless as bits of territory to conquer. You've basically won, because you can drop large rocks on them at speeds measured in multiple kilometres per second whenever you want.
3. Space fighters are cool but impractical. Relativistic speeds are quicker than humans have any way of dealing with in real time, so smart missiles and missile buses are a far more economic and practical option for combat.

But yeah... I may have to get around to reading these some day.

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 12 November 2013 - 08:14 PM

[QuickTidal]

stone monkey, on 12 November 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

tbh all of the above makes it sound far more interesting to me. It might not necessarily be all that much fun from the pew-pew! perspective. But if you, like me, are nitpicky about these things then it's a refreshing change.

From my perspective:
1. It sounds more like submarine warfare to my ears than anything else, and that's hardly lacking in tension when done right. And relativity really messes with time anyway. Also, space (as per Douglas Adams) is big. Hours aren't all that much time to do things, even at high speeds - especially when you need to accelerate and decelerate to plant mines and whatnot.
2. Arguably, once you control the space in a system, planets become meaningless as bits of territory to conquer. You've basically won, because you can drop large rocks on them at speeds measured in multiple kilometres per second whenever you want.
3. Space fighters are cool but impractical. Relativistic speeds are quicker than humans have any way of dealing with in real time, so smart missiles and missile buses are a far more economic and practical option for combat.

But yeah... I may have to get around to reading these some day.

Oh indeed, and I'm sure that it's very entertaining on those aspects...I just hope my brain comes around. It's certainly different, I'm just not sure if it's my kind of different.

[Baco Xtath]

Almost done listening to Crooked Little Vein. Holy shit. No idea what I was expecting but pure insanity wasn't it. Haven't laughed so hard since John Dies at the End. Gotta check out Gun Machine now. Also about halfway through the first Black Company; pure goodness. Loving Goblin and One-eye's banter.

[QuickTidal]

Baco Xtath, on 12 November 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Almost done listening to Crooked Little Vein. Holy shit. No idea what I was expecting but pure insanity wasn't it. Haven't laughed so hard since John Dies at the End. Gotta check out Gun Machine now. Also about halfway through the first Black Company; pure goodness. Loving Goblin and One-eye's banter.

If you even remotely liked CROOKED LITTLE VEIN, then you are going to love GUN MACHINE.

[Abyss]

stone monkey, on 12 November 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Looks like a couple of you got here before me

QuickTidal, on 12 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Almost done with LOST FLEET DAUNTLESS...and enjoy both the writing, and the characters but I wonder about two things:

1. The space battles are kind of meh. The whole relativistic thing irritates me. Especially how it keeps getting mentioned. "It will take ten minutes for this message to get to them and ten minutes back..." Campbell feels the need to keep telling me this over and over and over. I also never feel the threat because things aren't really happening in real time. Example:

Spoiler

Fleet jumps to Corvus system, and has time to mine the first set of Syndic ships to cross through, and then they have hours and hours to do stuff in-system before the main Syndic force arrives. I dunno, it never feels tense?

2. Is the series all these space battles? Are there ground battles, away missions to planets for stuff? I mean, in the first book the Marine team goes down to pacify a Syndic base in Corvus...but we sat up top with Geary and watched/heard about it. I kept thinking "I wanna be down there, in the thick of it!"...

3. (Secret bother #3) - No one, on either side thought up the idea of small, agile fighters? No one? Even the fast corvette's sound like they are fairly big. No 1/2 manned fighter ships?

I'm not asking if it gets better (it's very good, and easy to read)...I'm asking if it keeps this status quo for the whole time? If this whole series is Geary commanding from the bridge of the Dauntless and space battles only, I may give it up. Does it diversify and become about more than this book's mostly been about?

tbh all of the above makes it sound far more interesting to me. It might not necessarily be all that much fun from the pew-pew! perspective. But if you, like me, are nitpicky about these things then it's a refreshing change.

From my perspective:
1. It sounds more like submarine warfare to my ears than anything else, and that's hardly lacking in tension when done right. And relativity really messes with time anyway. Also, space (as per Douglas Adams) is big. Hours aren't all that much time to do things, even at high speeds - especially when you need to accelerate and decelerate to plant mines and whatnot.
2. Arguably, once you control the space in a system, planets become meaningless as bits of territory to conquer. You've basically won, because you can drop large rocks on them at speeds measured in multiple kilometres per second whenever you want.
3. Space fighters are cool but impractical. Relativistic speeds are quicker than humans have any way of dealing with in real time, so smart missiles and missile buses are a far more economic and practical option for combat.

But yeah... I may have to get around to reading these some day.

1. there are elements of sub warfare to it, notably the lack of visuals like widows during combat. And what visuals there are are delayed by the images light getting to the spaceships. It's rather nicely handled actually,

similar to how subs wait for sonar to reflect back to them.

2. the value of planets and 'jump points' are addressed throughout the series.

3. i can't really get into the fighter thing without spoiling some bits from later books, but i liked Campbell's rationale for it with countered a lot of the Weber/Ringo/White crowd's arguments for fighters in milSF.

[Morgoth]

I believe the author has background in the navy, and if I'm not entirely mistaken I think he also captained a submarine.

I enjoyed the series, and its focus on what I found to be a much more believable form of Space warfare. More in the vein of Cook than Star Trek. The characters, though by no means deep, were surprisingly enjoyable too I found.

[Serenity]

Since last visit:

Bleak Seasons - Glen Cook - enjoyed it, but I think I may be running out of steam on these books
The Witling - Vernor Vinge - fun, fast-paced early Vinge novel
The Bloody Crown of Conan - Robert E. Howard - omnibus with two novellas (The People of the Black Circle and A Witch Shall Be Born) and his only Conan novel, The Hour of the Dragon, all pretty enjoyable
Titus Groan - Mervyn Peake - didn't love it, didn't hate it, just felt a bit 'meh' about it
Elric - Michael Moorcock (Fantasy Masterworks edition including The Stealer of Souls and Stormbringer) - thoroughly enjoyed this

and this morning I've started Abercrombie's Red Country at last! After waiting all this time for the regular paperback to arrive I had to read it immediately.


ETA: having read through the last few pages of posts, can now see myself getting drawn into the Lost Fleet and Vorkosigan Saga books . . .

This post has been edited by Serenity: 13 November 2013 - 01:35 PM

[champ]

I was a bit stumped for what to read so I picked up some David Gemmell - for a lost count reread - and started out with Waylander and now onto Waylander 2...

Man, how I wish this guy had not departed this earth, what an absolute legend, I love these books, I had forgotten just how good they are!

Respect!

[Mentalist]

I have finally finished "Empire of the Blood" omnibus by Gav Thorpe. The last book, "Crown of the Usurper" was a bit of a slog.

My initial impression "Solid B-level epic fantasy" still applies. The first book is very much alternative Roman setting meets McBeth, and it works pretty well. and then

Spoiler

Book 2 is "General McBeth cum emperor conquering pseudo Gaull/Germania, while dark things not quite of this world stir far in the background"

-which was still well executed, generally, and had some pretty cool intrigue and twists.

Book 2 ends with a cliffhanger, and Book 3 gets even more trope-tastic, since obviously "It was Cthulhu all along"-type things start to dominate the plot. The very ending is very cliche-ridden, but Thorpe managed to avoid writing a final 1 on 1 heroic confrontation between his main character and the big villain, which i'm grateful for. Instead

Spoiler

evil is vanquished, about 100 thousand soldiers die to do this, and the main char/anti-hero retires.

--which is more fitting.

Overall, i'm not dissapointed with the money I've spent on this 1000+ page omnibus, but can't say i'm blown away either.

next up, I'll be delving back into the Baroque Cycle by Stephenson--the last volume, "The system of the World"

[Chance]

Started up Under Heaven and it is very good so far.

[Stalker]

Had to stop with Janny Wurt's' Curse of the Mistwraith. I made it about 46% through and it was a slog to make it that far. I know some people really enjoy it, so maybe they can convince me that it picks up.

So instead I grabbed Hulick's Among Thieves. I was looking for something filled with action and a fast moving plot, so hopefully this does it. I also have Stephenson's Baroque Cycle on queue, along with Kay's The Lions of Al-Rassan.

[Ukjent]

Not a bad choice Stalker, I very much enjoyed Among Thieves and Lions.

[Grumble]

Finished The lies Of Locke Lamora which was excellent !

Finishing The Name Of The Wind : The Kingkiller Chronicle also bloody good

Just downloaded The Last Dark for £1.99 in the hope that Donaldson can end the series on a high !

[HiddenOne]

finished Burrough's 2nd Mars book today at lunch

[JPK]

Finished Wolf in Shadow (a.k.a. The Jerusalem Man). My earlier statements about the odd setting shift still stands, though I really loved this book much more than the first two. Something about Jon Shannow just stands out.

Now I am finally starting The Last Dark and I'm super excited to do so.