[Chaos]

Random search again finds in a thread about how people tend to follow the stereotypical races of tolkien, rice etc

"For example, Steven Erikson uses dragons and elves (he calls the elves Tiste Andii, but they're elves), but you wouldn't recognise them from Anne McCaffery's dragons or Tolkein's elves."

Okay , dragons are dragons but then you've got the whole Tiam thing going on, deck of dragons.. the name is the same but take much further. But fair enough, I can see (but disagree with) how someone could think that dragons could be ripped off (but thats like saying you have a human character! how unoriginal).

BUT I was really shocked by the suggestion that Andii are elves. I mean SHOCKED. And for a split second I was absolutely gutted that perhaps Erikson had been that cheap.
But then I tried to think of actual similarities. And I came up with this.

They live for a long time.


That's pretty much it. From that reason you could say the Assail are elves aswell. Which is just stupid.

Can anyone actually think of any other links?
The Elves are nature loving, tree hugging hippies who sing songs and always seem to have a good time. Andii dont QUITE meet that criteria

Always amazing to see how other people can interpret things differently..

[Valgard]

I can see vaguely what they mean as in not only do they live a long time e.g. they are nearly immortal (in terms of growing old) , but they can be killed by normal means. Their main enemy is bored and depression like elves in many settings. They are also tall graceful and beautiful like elves. So there are some similarities, but In my view not that many the Andii are much more developped than most lots of elves you meet. There back story is much more in depth and I think much better than that of the elves the way they are linked to dark and the way they act is also very different. So I think that whilst there are some supificial similarities between these are not important and that erikison has not copied elves to create the andii.

[QuickTidal]

Bah, hogwash! The Andii are SO not elves! Simply because a race of people are long of life does NOT make them elves. I mean, Jaghut are long of life as well, but they aren't like elves. I think Rake would have the person who's quote that was impaled on Dragnipur....LOL

[Danforth]

Tiste in general could be seen as being 'Elvish' because often Elves are seperated into Dark Elves and Light Elves (mainly D&D based though) hence Andii and Liosan, the Tiste of Erikson's world are also creatures of sollitude and patience which could also be seen as Elvish traits.

[Abyss]

Yes. And Liosan are IVORY ELVES. And Edur are DIRTY ELVES. Or grey elves, i'm not sure... maybe more of a charcoal elf colour... can you have dust elves... maybe spawn from soletaken dust bunnies...

All of which is to say, every fantasy literature race is going to be 'cursed' so to speak, with the legacy of Tolkien, D&D and so on. Any short taciturn precious metal obsessed race is going to be a dwarf..., kender, hobbits and halflings have hairy feet... and so on, and so on...

Mieville really chucked the trend with his frog people and sentient cactuses, didn't he.

- Abyss, ahhhh! soletaken dust bunnies!!! AHHHH!
that said

[Abyss]

Sometimes the familiarity of the setting and themes is what draw readers in.

Kearney's Monarchies of God series has restrained itself to magic and werewolves, at least so far as I've read.

- Abyss, wants his own gyrfalcon familiar.

[Mithfanion]

Chaos,

I'm actually surprised that you're denying the huge similarities between for instance Tolkien's Elves and The Tiste Andii. How hard is it to understand people think them similar when they are both:

* Aesthetically superior to humans (they are taller, more beautiful, more graceful, possessing extra skills)

* Are nearly immortal

* Can be exceptional fighters

* Are a melancholy people fighting for a lost cause.

* A people who appear to be drawing their last breaths on this world.

It's like saying Anomander Rake isn't an Elric clone because his skin colour is black where Elric's was white. And Erikson even found something for that when he created Silchas Ruin.

[Trotts]

definetly think the andii are very much like elves, thats what i thought when i started reading the books.
thats not to say that i think erikson is ripping off tolkein or anything like that at all even remotley, such that there are a lot of similarities.
of the other tiste races, the edur and liosan are both very falliable races and i like that a lot, but the andii seem (to me) to be overly pure, and just....ug....."perfect" very much like elves

[Danforth]

Quote

I'm going to bring something up, that I don't know how you people missed.

The Tiste Andii are DARK ELVES.

We didn't miss it I stated it in the post before yours.

[Chaos]

Mithfanion said:

Chaos,

I'm actually surprised that you're denying the huge similarities between for instance Tolkien's Elves and The Tiste Andii. How hard is it to understand people think them similar when they are both:

* Aesthetically superior to humans (they are taller, more beautiful, more graceful, possessing extra skills)

* Are nearly immortal

* Can be exceptional fighters

* Are a melancholy people fighting for a lost cause.

* A people who appear to be drawing their last breaths on this world.

It's like saying Anomander Rake isn't an Elric clone because his skin colour is black where Elric's was white. And Erikson even found something for that when he created Silchas Ruin.

I just never made the connection, i've only read tolkien once and didn't like to be honest.
In answer to your points:
*Never really thought that ALL andii are beautiful.. many possess grace that you would get from living that long though yes.

*Can be exceptional fighters.. refer to the point i made earlier. So could humans, dwarves etc so fail to see the relevence of that point

* The last breath and lost cause point is a fair one though. Although that's Rake's Andii with regards to the lost cause.

Basically I just always valued the Andii as one of my favourite races and held them completely seperate from elves. I am sad to see the similarities now BUT my main contention with the original quote was the idea that erikson was basically ripping off stereotypes where there is so much more to his ideas.

[Matrim]

I have always maintained that if one tries hard enough he can find "proof" to accuse every author in the world of ripping off.
Sure, the Tiste resemble elves somewhat but the simirarity is mostly superficial.