[polishgenius]

To take the discussion away from the other topic and put it in a place where it's not getting tied in with, you know, the evil stuff.



One thing I wanted to note is that having finally had the thought to check if Flat Earth is available on ebook in places other than Kobo - it is, on google play books at least- I read the sampler for the first one, Night's Master. I imagine I will not be the only one put off by the fact that the opening ends in a sex scene with a 16 year old boy who's been stolen and groomed from a literal baby by the titular demon lord. Getting past it it becomes pretty clear that Lee is in no way making this a positive or romantic relationship, at all, but it isn't a comfortable opening.

That said once you get past that the prose is gorgeous and the setting is fascinating. I'll be honest, I haven't decided if I want to continue it, based on that opening, but like I say, it's not a positive depiction in the end.



The book of hers that I've actually given a real go to is Cast a Bright Shadow, the first in the LionWolf trilogy. It's also got a fascinating setting (a sort of dying-earth, though not actually Earth, in a world where some cultures retain high magitech but others are more regressed, in basically an ice age) and great prose. Both times I'm not really sure why I stopped reading, and I do intend to get back. Just for starters, I've not got so far as the actual LionWolf of the title - the son of the initial protagonist- being introduced.

It is worth noting that the book doesn't shy away from sexual violence, so approach with caution if you don't need that right now.

I've also tried The Silver-Metal Lover, which is probably her most renowned work, but I wasn't really feeling that. Iirc, the lead character opens as the kind of unlikeable I find hard to read about, and though I gather part of the point is her getting over that, the book didn't initially give me enough of interest past that to get there. That one is, as far as I know, pretty much a straight-up romance, not an epic fantasy adventure or collection of stories like the other two, so probably a bit more niche to the interests of this board.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: Today, 12:27 PM

[Abyss]

I bounced off Lee a few years ago, a 2HBS i frequented had several entire runs of her books and i tried LionWolf and Paradys and found them too close to that Robin Hobb zone of dark mooded character focused story I just don't usually vibe with, despite the obviously exceptional prose.

I've considered going back more than once, and I admit the revelation about Flat Earth has me curious. Audible tells me the series is in earbook tho people seem fairly unhappy w the narrator. May see if the library has it.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 16 January 2025 - 03:59 PM, said:

The Tanith Lee thing blows my mind. How is this not widely known? She's not a name but is far from a complete unknown, and those links are not subtle.

To move the plagiarism discussion away too: I will say that on a surface level scan at least there isn't enough there to call it plagiarism, though the names in particular are cheeky. Enough inspiration that giving credit would have been decent, for sure, but they're not similar characters or settings really. I saw this thread on Bluesky by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, who's evidently more familiar with her work who thinks so as well.

https://bsky.app/pro...t/3lfsr7al2bk2x


I would be interested in reading more to see if Liz Williams' claims that Lee felt there were specific passages Gaiman lifted ring true, because that would be something more concrete.

(that isn't a defense of Gaiman, you know, fuck that guy. But don't go in expecting, you know, The Sandman)


It is surprising as you say though that, regardless of how closely he took from it, that that isn't more known. Like, I know of Tanith Lee, and I've circled Flat Earth for a while because I've heard good things about it more than once, yet I didn't hear of the similarities till now.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: Today, 05:37 PM

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 16 January 2025 - 05:34 PM, said:

ere to call it plagiarism, though the names in particular are cheeky. Enough inspiration that giving credit would have been decent

I think it's definitely close enough that credit was due. Like this is GRRM cribs Tad Williams MS&T....and at least GRRM admits that is indeed the case.

And it's the lack of credit that annoys me, knowing how their career trajectories went.

polishgenius, on 16 January 2025 - 05:34 PM, said:

It is surprising as you say though that, regardless of how closely he took from it, that that isn't more known. Like, I know of Tanith Lee, and I've circled Flat Earth for a while because I've heard good things about it more than once, yet I didn't hear of the similarities till now.

It shows you the power differential. She obviously knew and was bothered by it, but by then his clout was so strong that she would have been fighting not just against a massive tide, but DC comics too, who are as litigious as Gaiman would have been about it...so methinks her financial situation probably just disallowed her to even try so the similarities stayed in obscurity to everyone who had never read both things.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 16 January 2025 - 06:45 PM, said:

I think it's definitely close enough that credit was due. Like this is GRRM cribs Tad Williams MS&T....and at least GRRM admits that is indeed the case.

Yeah. Although I maintain that GRRM also cribbed from Feist's Magician despite claiming he never read it (unless the similarities between them are common similarities with MST, I suppose- but seriously, Westeros is so much the Kingdom flipped sideways, with King's Landing taking both Krondor and Rillanon's place and Crydee as Westeros- and the Starks are so the ConDoin kids, albeit without an Arya).


But yeah it's definitely notable that Gaiman rarely if at all mentioned Tanith Lee despite blurbing other British fantasy writers all over the place.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: Today, 06:50 PM