Withal

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Withal

#21 Tiger_sword

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 07:54 PM

the end of MT is the beginning of MoI. Proof: the Edur warrior that Mael cast to the bottom of a lake which was then washed down stream as seen by Paran, bridgeburners etc.

I think this is more or less the only piece of completely 100% reliable evidence we have for dating the story arcs. Though SE has cleared this up on another thread

#22 Guest_wert_*

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 08:02 PM

Fanderay said:

I think Withal and Sandalath Drukorlat will turn up again. I got the impression that Drukorlat was Korlat's long-dead mother (in case anyone has forgotten, Korlat is/was Whiskeyjacks Tiste Andii lover in MOI), so there may be some be reuinion there. Also as the maker of the sword Withal may have some ideas as to its un-making in future.

i have seen this theory pop up in several threads but i havent noticed it when i read the books, can you point me where this is mentioned(sandalath-korlat=mom-daughter)?

#23 Illuyankas

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 01:49 AM

In MT just before she gets rebodied, Sandalath is thinking of her family, and how her husband would have moved on, and how her daughter followed in Son of Darkness' footsteps and drank Tiam's blood, becoming draconic. That, and the similarities in names, sells the theory for me.

Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.

#24 Guest_wert_*

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 12:01 PM

thanks.

#25 Guest_Olorin_*

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:02 AM

I definitely see Withal having something to do with breaking the sword, thus ending Rhulad's reign of terror.

#26 tiam

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 10:01 PM

I thought Withal would break the sword as well.......

Or...... (im preparing to be shot down on this btw)
He makes another sword finds fear(maybe they meet on the sea:)) and fear kicks Rhulad of the edur throne by decapitating him. Or maybe fear keeps the sword and finds Scabadandri bloodeye gives it to ihim an he kills rhulad and , with Mael of course:) , beats the sh** out of the CG. Then the Edur become a tribal nation as they once were. Trull is then unshorn and crowned emporer.

I really like Trull and cant help feeling sorry for him.

#27 Guest_Fury_*

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 01:16 PM

if it were any other author i'd probably agree with ya..but that plot seems to...i dunno, linear or something...kinda like old school fantasies (farmboy finds magical sword, somehow escapes impossible odds..is actually the kings long lost son yadda yadda yadda)
Im not critising you, but i feel if Withal does come back and plays a part it maybe as a more adviseral role, but something more grandoise maybe.....
ahh, maybe im just talkin rubbish... ^_^

#28 tiam

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:22 PM

Yeh you probably are:D (sorry)

But your idea is just about as plausible as mine. In that it will never happen. ^_^

I think your right it seems to straight forward that withal will break the sword. It seems to easy that withal would seek to undo his own evil or something stereo typical like that. When there is no good and evil anything from ne1 is possible. Well the CG is evil but even thats debatable

#29 Guest_Nobody really ..._*

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 03:53 AM

Olorin said:

I definitely see Withal having something to do with breaking the sword,

thus ending Rhulad's reign of terror.

I placed the gap for a reason.

There is, is it not true, a much more importent sword to break. Yes of course the crippled god's 'gift' must be (or might be or pehaps will never be) broken.

But in terms of swords there surely must be, you must agree, one which truly needs 'breaking'

#30 tiam

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:15 PM

Yes but has any thought of the consequences of breaking dragnipur. Also how will the demons or gods or whatever else is in there be able to get back to their bodies. Sum of them are old such as draconus. His soul is trapped but his body has most probably rotted away. How will he become a god again. Unless he commandeers an Enkaral like that Toblakai:D

#31 Set'alahd Crool

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 01:42 PM

One would assume an elder god doesn't really need his/her body. K'rull just sort of rematerialised from chaos. Scabandari's soul had to be imprisoned even after his body was destroyed. I'm sure Draconis will sort himself out if or when the sword is broken.

#32 Tiger_sword

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 03:27 PM

id be more concerned with the end of the world if dragnipur is broken

#33 Set'alahd Crool

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 05:37 PM

Someone suggested breaking it within the grounds of an azath. I'm not sure how that would help Draconis, but it sounds like a good scene.

How about this. Give dragnipur to Icarium, let him bring it to some lifeless wasteland - the imperial warren maybe - and let him break it. Again, not necessarily to Draconis' advantage, but another good scene.

#34 tiam

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 09:24 PM

A good idea but assuming icarium kills them all how do every1 else stop icarium? Also it cant be broken in the grounds of the Azath. In DG the azath struggles with a few hundred soletaken so a sword thats been taking souls since the beginning of time near enough would utterly kill the azath and all the creatures in the azath would come out aswell therefore making the problem a whole lot worse.

#35 Guest_Rahl Windsong_*

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 02:05 AM

tiam said:

Ok well that could be the ending to the whole story then! Icarium gets the sword then its broken in the grounds of the Azath and then something even worse then Icariums rage is released sundering the world beyond all possibilty of salvation! :eek:

Rahl

#36 tiam

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 06:58 AM

And then just for good measure Brood finds the whining Myhbe form MoI and brings the hammer down as hyard as he can:)

#37 Guest_Andreas_*

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 12:40 PM

Just as to the timeline and MT, it is somewhat complicated, obviously. The part of the prologue to MT where Withal (The swordmaker) meets the Crippled God, takes place in the 1159th year of Burn's sleep (three years before the Letherii Seventh Closure). The main part of the book starts one year before the Seventh Closure; in other words, two years later, the 1161st year of Burn's sleep, thus placing it in the same year as the start of the main events of GotM. By the end of MT the seventh closure is supposedly in effect, and the "First Empire" thus ressurected with Rhulad as the Emperor and the Tiste Edur as the ruling class, which places it a year after that, in the 1162nd year of Burn's sleep. Of course, that would be impossible, as Togg and Fanderay was only reuited on the Beast Thrones in the 1164th year of Burn's sleep (MoI), while this was portrayed in the first half of MT, making it, MT-time, 1161. Also, the Edur "drowned" by Mael, among other things, hints of some simultaniousity (is that a word?) with the events of MoI. On top of all this, the prologue of HoC, where Trull is shorned from his family and the Edur, is placed in 1159, witch makes no sense at all. All this leads me to believe that some dates in this are wrong, and that there is no way to know which ones, unless SE himself deems it important enough to correct himself...

Not that it is really important, as most readers would obviously be confused even if it was all correct. Oh, how I love MBotF...

#38 Set'alahd Crool

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 01:44 PM

Let's not forget that Withal's city is presumably the one from which the debris encountered and used by Envy and co.

#39 Tiger_sword

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 09:54 AM

some of the dates may be wrong. We just have to accept it. For all we know that Edur could have been under water for a long time.

Also as for Togg and Fanderay, that was a fortelling.

The only conclusive evidence (which seams to hint that MT took place prehaps a little before GoTM and MoI) is that the edur fleet has just landed on the west coast of Genabackis as K'rul was telling Envy in MoI

#40 tiam

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Posted 04 February 2006 - 02:07 PM

I also dont see the point in trying to give a timeline to everything. SE himself has admitted theres massive errors in the timeline so seen as we didnt write the books steve has deemed these irrelevant and inconsequential.Therefore we must do the same