Malazan Empire: The (original) Michelle West Discussion Thread - Malazan Empire

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The (original) Michelle West Discussion Thread A thread to discuss, well you probably worked that out...

#41 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 05:12 AM

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

Started BROKEN CROWN.

...this picks up eventually, yes?


You started with the wrong book. If you want to get engrossed immediately, start with The Hidden City first.


Another reason the first three House War books are a better intro — West is just a plain better writer at that point. Due to West having more years as a writer under her belt, The House War books are written in a more engaging, lively, clear way than the Sun Sword books.

The first 3 House War books will hook you enough, that the awkward/detached parts of Sun Sword won't make you as turned off.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 25 April 2023 - 05:15 AM

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#42 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 09:58 AM

View Postpat5150, on 25 April 2023 - 01:36 AM, said:

View PostTiste Simeon, on 24 April 2023 - 08:16 PM, said:

Just remind me, South = Dominion and North = Empire? Then the demon place is somewhere else?

Also,
Spoiler



Though they don't appear on the map, the Northern Wastes are way up North beyond the Empire.

Near the Canadian border! ;)

There's a map?

QT, I knew from the intro he was the Lord of the demons but I don't think I'd made the connection of him being the same person as "the" Lord as in, day etc.
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#43 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 12:10 PM

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

Started BROKEN CROWN.

...this picks up eventually, yes?


It's a table setting book, but yes I'd say it picks up from about the midway point to the end.

Think of it like a slower burn GOTM, Book 2 THE UNCROWNED KING is definitely DG though.

It's easily my least fave of the books I've read, and I had the benefit of the first 3 House War books to settle me into the whole shebang so that things that might make little sense to me, made far more sense.

The last 200 pages of THE BROKEN CROWN are excellent though IMO.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

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#44 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 12:13 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 25 April 2023 - 09:58 AM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 25 April 2023 - 01:36 AM, said:

View PostTiste Simeon, on 24 April 2023 - 08:16 PM, said:

Just remind me, South = Dominion and North = Empire? Then the demon place is somewhere else?

Also,
Spoiler



Though they don't appear on the map, the Northern Wastes are way up North beyond the Empire.

Near the Canadian border! ;)

There's a map?



There is, but it's only in Book2 I think. She was still working out things in Book 1....Here you go.

Attached File  MW-Map.png (1.5MB)
Number of downloads: 0
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
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#45 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 01:23 PM

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 25 April 2023 - 05:12 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

Started BROKEN CROWN.

...this picks up eventually, yes?


You started with the wrong book. If you want to get engrossed immediately, start with The Hidden City first.


Another reason the first three House War books are a better intro — West is just a plain better writer at that point. Due to West having more years as a writer under her belt, The House War books are written in a more engaging, lively, clear way than the Sun Sword books.

The first 3 House War books will hook you enough, that the awkward/detached parts of Sun Sword won't make you as turned off.



View PostQuickTidal, on 25 April 2023 - 12:10 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:27 AM, said:

Started BROKEN CROWN.

...this picks up eventually, yes?


It's a table setting book, but yes I'd say it picks up from about the midway point to the end.

Think of it like a slower burn GOTM, Book 2 THE UNCROWNED KING is definitely DG though.

It's easily my least fave of the books I've read, and I had the benefit of the first 3 House War books to settle me into the whole shebang so that things that might make little sense to me, made far more sense.

The last 200 pages of THE BROKEN CROWN are excellent though IMO.




All noted tnx, will consider how to proceed.
May just not be in the right headspace for this ( the fantasy lit fan's equivalent of 'it's not you, it's me... but it's really you.')
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#46 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 02:07 PM

I have the map in my copy of The Broken Crown...

Abyss, it's a very dense and slow-moving book until the last third. The payoff (and the rest of the series) is so worth it, but yeah you have to get through a bit of a slog before getting there.
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#47 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the map, I'm on Audible so I've not been able to check these things.

In fact I'm wondering if part of Abyss' problems might be that the narrator is not necessarily the best at distinguishing voices so it's often quite difficult to grasp who's talking which makes it occasionally hard to follow at times. Doesn't help that so many people have similar names haha
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#48 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 03:57 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 25 April 2023 - 03:34 PM, said:

Thanks for the map, I'm on Audible so I've not been able to check these things.

In fact I'm wondering if part of Abyss' problems might be that the narrator is not necessarily the best at distinguishing voices so it's often quite difficult to grasp who's talking which makes it occasionally hard to follow at times. Doesn't help that so many people have similar names haha


Not really. The narrator is fine. It's the tell-me>show-me approach so far i'm having trouble with, but i don't want to dump on the series so many of you are enjoying and i trust most of you enough to stick with it for a while yet.
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#49 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 04:05 PM

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:57 PM, said:

View PostTiste Simeon, on 25 April 2023 - 03:34 PM, said:

Thanks for the map, I'm on Audible so I've not been able to check these things.

In fact I'm wondering if part of Abyss' problems might be that the narrator is not necessarily the best at distinguishing voices so it's often quite difficult to grasp who's talking which makes it occasionally hard to follow at times. Doesn't help that so many people have similar names haha


Not really. The narrator is fine. It's the tell-me>show-me approach so far i'm having trouble with, but i don't want to dump on the series so many of you are enjoying and i trust most of you enough to stick with it for a while yet.



Could be the earlier works. Part reason I am enjoying The Hidden City so much is it's very show and not tell.

Tehol said:

'Yet my heart breaks for a naked hen.'
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#50 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 04:47 PM

View Postchamp, on 25 April 2023 - 04:05 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 25 April 2023 - 03:57 PM, said:

View PostTiste Simeon, on 25 April 2023 - 03:34 PM, said:

Thanks for the map, I'm on Audible so I've not been able to check these things.

In fact I'm wondering if part of Abyss' problems might be that the narrator is not necessarily the best at distinguishing voices so it's often quite difficult to grasp who's talking which makes it occasionally hard to follow at times. Doesn't help that so many people have similar names haha


Not really. The narrator is fine. It's the tell-me>show-me approach so far i'm having trouble with, but i don't want to dump on the series so many of you are enjoying and i trust most of you enough to stick with it for a while yet.



Could be the earlier works. Part reason I am enjoying The Hidden City so much is it's very show and not tell.


This can't be overlooked as a feature of her more recent work, I was sucked right into HOUSE WAR 1-3, but Sun Sword really did take most of BROKEN CROWN for me to get properly sucked in...and honestly, as HOUSE WAR 1-3 only ever even TALK about Annagar in one section (when Jewel and Devon are sort of undercover and pretending to be from there (not a spoiler) as a disguise) it made it all the more difficult to for me get into, felt like MIDNIGHT TIDES to me for a long while in the page count.... I still maintain that back 200 pages of BROKEN CROWN after a certain event are very compelling, but it's a VERY good thing that Book 2 in SUN SWORD switches overall arena to the North entirely and starts to include WAY more Northern/Essalieyan characters as things just ramp up well with the wider non-Annagarian cast...but that's the trick isn't it? To know what ________ character(s) and the rest are standing for/against in that second book, you TRULY have to have BROKEN CROWN under your hat to juxtapose that against something.

To Abyss and the rest I'll just say push through and trust the process.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 April 2023 - 04:48 PM

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
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#51 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 06:56 PM

Holy shit! Just finished Sea of Sorrows and it was absolutely incredible!

It also features the best flashback sequence since Rand al'Thor entered Rhuidean.

Fuck me, I promised myself that I'd read Mark Lawrence's latest next. . .

Don't know if I'll have the self-control not to jump into The Riven Shield!
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#52 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 07:30 PM

510 pages into The Hidden City and some thoughts...

Spoiler


Back to it!

This post has been edited by champ: 25 April 2023 - 07:51 PM

Tehol said:

'Yet my heart breaks for a naked hen.'
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#53 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 08:50 PM

I'm now 12 hours in (out of 31 hours total) and I had the first "wow that was pretty great" moment
Spoiler


I haven't seen anything I'd call high fantasy yet (demons aside I guess but they've been quite low key) but I feel like something big is being, and not just cos QT keeps telling me it is ;)
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#54 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 25 April 2023 - 09:14 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 25 April 2023 - 08:50 PM, said:

I'm now 12 hours in (out of 31 hours total) and I had the first "wow that was pretty great" moment
Spoiler


I haven't seen anything I'd call high fantasy yet (demons aside I guess but they've been quite low key) but I feel like something big is being, and not just cos QT keeps telling me it is ;)


Spoiler


You'll see more high fantasy elements once the action shifts to the Empire in the second part of the book. And in the sequels, of course.
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#55 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 01:41 PM

Chapter Three
Spoiler


Anyone know of cast list online somewhere? The earbook didn't come w a .pdf.
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#56 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 01:48 PM

View PostAbyss, on 26 April 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

Chapter Three
Spoiler


Anyone know of cast list online somewhere? The earbook didn't come w a .pdf.


I got you fam.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Abyss: 26 April 2023 - 02:47 PM
Reason for edit: spoiler block for attachment size

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"Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone." ~Ursula Vernon
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#57 User is offline   pat5150 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 02:45 PM

I thought that audiobooks at least came with maps, dramatis personae, etc. Sucks that they don't. . .
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#58 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 02:46 PM

View Postpat5150, on 26 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

I thought that audiobooks at least came with maps, dramatis personae, etc. Sucks that they don't. . .


I have always felt that audiobooks costing what they do should come with a PDF eBook...it feels like a no-brainer to include, but for some reason (Probably money) they don't.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

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#59 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 02:51 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 26 April 2023 - 01:48 PM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 26 April 2023 - 01:41 PM, said:

Chapter Three
Spoiler


Anyone know of cast list online somewhere? The earbook didn't come w a .pdf.


I got you fam.

Spoiler



Tnx muchly QT. I added spoiler blocks just for sizing.

View Postpat5150, on 26 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

I thought that audiobooks at least came with maps, dramatis personae, etc. Sucks that they don't. . .


They did not, and dramatis personae lists DO NOT work well in earbook (Malazan being an exception).
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#60 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 26 April 2023 - 02:54 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 26 April 2023 - 02:46 PM, said:

View Postpat5150, on 26 April 2023 - 02:45 PM, said:

I thought that audiobooks at least came with maps, dramatis personae, etc. Sucks that they don't. . .


I have always felt that audiobooks costing what they do should come with a PDF eBook...it feels like a no-brainer to include, but for some reason (Probably money) they don't.


Agreed but the industry has never been content to sell one book where they can sell two, and to be fair, licensing for earbook, ebook, and dead tree can be held by different publishers/producers, sometimes even different by country or region, so there's incentive not to split profit any more than they have to.
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