[Abyss]

Ok, we got a shiny new ICE Malazan book, we got the earbook and the ebook on the devices... LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This is my FORGE OF THE HIGH MAGE reading thread.


It is mine.


SPOILERS are live and unblocked for all prior Malazan books and stories ever at all.


Yes, even GOATS OF GLORY.

NO SPOILERS past wherever i'm at in the book.

If you want to discuss something, wait or start your own damn thread.


....go.

[Abyss]

PROLOGUE.... and the Jhistal are assh0les. I am not surprised.

Ch 1 - Mysterious traveller w a bone didjeridoo. Explosive response from unknown source.
I am intrigued.

Choss and Kellanved - Korel already a mess. Interesting, were Greymane and co lost this early? ...later snarky Surly comment indicates yes.

- expand or die... ambition or misdirection? Is Kel setting the EMpire on a series of endless campaigns just to hide that he and Dancer and aiming at ascension?

- heh, Dancer,,,, "Told you so."

- oh good, Ullara blind bird priestess of the Jheck, my least favorite plotline is back. And negotiating w Thelomen, ok THAT's better.

- BEAR-JHECK?!?!?!

- oh HI Bellurdan!

- Oh Tayshrenn... just never gonna be a people person. And neither is Nightchill. Interesting discussion.

- 'Tocaras'... heh. And interesting that of everyone, he alone gets a friendly greeting from Dancer. (Surly gets 'where's your sidekick?')

- Kel wants to match the Twisted against the Jhistal.... and i am here for it.

- i like this exchange re who goes where... Dassem to confront the monster but not command, Catheron to command the naval force but give up High Fist, Dujek to comand the ground force and leave Whiskeyjack in command elsewhere and Surly reacts badly... looks like that particular rivalry or relationship goes way back.

[Abyss]

Ch 2 -

Gianna - so much Orchid vibe from OST.

...ah, but high priestess of Mael, not Tiste. Maybe.

Still, a high priestess who wishes for her god to die... that will workout just fine for all involved, no doubt.


Hessa and co. - i like these charactes, they have a very marine attitude and mostly competency to them. Also, at least half as disposeable.


Crimson Guard - oh HI Blues and Smoky! ....ICE really likes Blues doesn't he?
Gwynn - i can't remember who Gwynn sides with when Skinner subverts the Guard in RCG, but either way he's a dick.
This castle. is going. down.

Heh, Bellurdan teasing Jheck.


Ch 3

Cartheron - am enjoying Cartheron's POV. He's a character we've known for years but never had much insight to.

Hee... Kel recruiting pirates. That is so typical.


Tays - ah, the distinction between high mage and cadre mage evolves. Neat.

And it seems to Malazans are following the Jheck.

Sialle - says she's Seti, but i'm remembering Su from RG who was Wickan. Hmmm. Love her hostility and frankness re why she's there.

Blues - oh HI SKINNER! ... heh... early days on Jakuruku going well. .... as an aside, it's so nice to be back in this world.

Mallick - dick. steals house.

Ch 4

Hi Jan n Janelle! You've aged badly!!! (seriously weren't these two kids back in the PtA?)

Hessa n co... bunch of dead cattle... torn up... by... big... birds.... oh hell WE GOT KCHAIN IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!

Gianna - still angry.

Ulllara - i love this 'mother knows best' thing she has going w all the massive dangerous wolf soletaken warriors.

Cartheron - heh... a knacht. ...wait, native to Malaz what no they aren't????

Nightchill training Tays is verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting. Also, telling him to consult w Hairlock. Wow, that's ironic.

[I know Jhek Shit]

Cannot wait for you to finish this. I'm strugling with what to think about some of these storylines so I'm keen to see somebody else's thoughts.

[Abyss]

Ch 5

Gwynn's exchange w Blues... i dunno, somehow the idea of Crimson Guard Avowed blindly following orders, esp from Skinner, seems uncharacteristic. Your rock mage tells you the rock fort is about to fall over, 'naqh, we stay and attack the army that vastly outnumbers and outguns us' seems too silly for a Malazan book.

Bellurdan and the Jheck encountering Kell Hunters... things are amping up! ...and it goes wildly badly for the Jheck. Liked Bellurdan taking one out w a rock was a nice touch. Not clear on the ref to an 'age of peace' tho, when earlier refs had the Jheck and Thelomen fighting each other until recently.

Speaking of action, Dancer taking out the pirate assassins was a nice scene. "Congrats! You're captains now!" .... heh. And Kel gives him attitude for making a mess!

Gianna, Janelle, Jan - ready for this story to move fwd... oh good it is!

Hessa and co... while fairly slow this storyline is fascinating... how is Singer, a Jaghut, controlling the KChain???

oh HI Endest Silann!!! Always neat to see characters like this in a prologue novel... i know they can't die, but how he got to the place where we first met him i TtH is fairly loaded and i wonder how much of that we see here.


...so at 5 chapters in we have the Malazans, the Crimson Guard, the Jhistal Cult, Jheck, Thelomen, K'Chain Che'malle, a Jaghut, and the Tiste Andii (plus Mael's angry High Priestess and a bunch of hapless humans) all actively engaged in the story. We've got sea and land campaigns. And at least one plotting Elder God.
... i love these books.

[Abyss]

Catching up to where i'm at....

Chapters 6-14

I like how Gwynne, Ullura, and Koroll all had ties from the events in Li Heng, which flows back to the PoA trilo but also fwd to RCG.

Ullura's an interesting character. She can lapse to Mhybe-level angsting but ICE always stops just short and brings her back to strength.

Blues has basically been Blues so far. We see his skill in the brief fight w the Jheck but it's not quite the 'weapons master of the crimson guard' level we're always told about but rarely see. I am enjoying the background development of Jacinthe and Black the Lesser (and his absent brother Black the Greater). The Guard storyline has been a borderline move-from-a-to-b so far. I hope it gets more active.

I really enjoyed the descriptions of Dujek's army engaging (annihilating) the Jheck warriors. From holding back to drawing them in, to the lines holding and splitting and cutting the wolves apart, this was well told. Minimal magic was a nice touch, just a brief ref to Hairlock possessing some bear-Jheck.

Also, Jheck are idiots who should listen to their bird-lady better.

Tays... STILL not a people person, but his failure against the Kell Hunter was fascinating considering what we know will happen in later years. Am also enjoying his borderline master-apprentice thing w Nightchill (again, considering events at Pale in GotM), and his gradual starting to almost care about the troops esp after his 'failure' at the first battle w the Kell. Also his chat w Topper was interesting.... Surly is not being subtle. His 'leave my soldiers alone you fiend argh ZAAAAP' was a nice touch.

Ute and Missy are so dead meat.

Gianna. Is a storyline in the book. It's fine, just not holding my attention as well as the others. Plucky young girl must escape evil adults, grow up, save kiddies just doesn't grab me. Her few displays of power are encouraging, and i did very like the kids saving her during the salvage dive... that i did NOT expect. Jan and Janelle completely blew their whole scam tho.

Enjoyed the revelation re Kel's plan for the pirates to go rogue. And that he might be lying that that was ever his plan. Dancer and Karathon's amazement/scepticism is fun.


Hessa & co. ... k Corbin was so disposeable his death was foretold. The twins are more engaging and i like Turnagin's altruistic streak and i love what his little flute suggests he plans. I buy Hessa trying to keep them alive. I need a bit mor development for Singer tho if he's going to be the Big Bad of the entire book.

I'm going to have to just accept that Dujek faced Kell Hunters way back when and just forgot all about it by the time we get to MoI, yes?

Mallick Rel's plotting seems to be working out. Loved how he took out Ortheal and gained the Abess and Ortheal's replacement.

"There is only one sword." Oh hells yes.

Endest is totally going send in Feral.

It's interesting that all these groups are converging on the KC mountain with complementary goals and different interests most of which do not actually conflict.

Meanwhile, Imanaj is hanging out on the beach, occasionally killing people. I liked the fight w the other would-be champions of Aren, but at the 50% point of the book am waiting for this storyline to actually go somewhere.

[champ]

Abyss, on 13 April 2023 - 04:35 PM, said:

Tays... STILL not a people person, but his failure against the Kell Hunter was fascinating considering what we know will happen in later years. Am also enjoying his borderline master-apprentice thing w Nightchill (again, considering events at Pale in GotM), and his gradual starting to almost care about the troops esp after his 'failure' at the first battle w the Kell. Also his chat w Topper was interesting.... Surly is not being subtle. His 'leave my soldiers alone you fiend argh ZAAAAP' was a nice touch.

Tays has the best sections in this book. Going from Hairlock telling him where power comes from, to the first Kell Hunter disaster to the rage mode ZAP as you put it, that was great development. Then Endest going oh shit who be that?!?!


Enjoy the remainder...

Abyss, on 13 April 2023 - 04:35 PM, said:

I'm going to have to just accept that Dujek faced Kell Hunters way back when and just forgot all about it by the time we get to MoI, yes?

Have to admit, this bothered me too. Cannot believe no one said to ICE this could be an issue.

[Abyss]

Ch 15

Heh... Tays' zap leaving an impression of everybody. 'Human. Purest Thyr i've ever seen.'


Interesting, we've seen Greymane take on a Kell by himself, and Das did earlier in this book, but the four Avowed had a hard time w one.


Ah... now we see where Imanaj falls into the story... he's on one of the Falari islands Kel's 'rogue' pirates are after. ...which seems to be intersecting w Rel's plans? Hmmm...


Oh look Gianna has been captured. Again. Woo. Which is more or less what Gianna says and i'm not sure how to feel about that.

Tays, Nightchill, and Das, going out to confront the four Avowed... oh it is ON.

Tays chat w Nightchill... "you malazans"... could her game be to bring the ME into conflict w Rake to take Dragnipur? That IS ambitious. We know it happens eventually, but it would be interesting if Nightchill was somehow behind it.

[Abyss]

Chs 16-23

Feral is awesome.

[Abyss]

Ch 24 - end.

Wait... no more Feral?

[I know Jhek Shit]

Abyss, on 17 April 2023 - 11:27 PM, said:

Ch 24 - end.

Wait... no more Feral?

Do you think you are going to do a summary post of your thoughts or does this sort of sum it up? I must admit I was left somewhat cold but would be interested to read what you and others have to say.

[Abyss]

Absolutely will, am just rereading a few parts. I found myself reading/ear'ing more and posting less and suddenly book over.

[Abyss]

Alright, my chapter by chapter notes are shot because i ended up marathoning the earbook then afk during the selective reread, so let's just get into this...

Generally - i enjoyed the book. There are parts that I enjoyed more, parts less, but that's standard. Within the set of ICE's PATHS books to date this is probably my least favorite - which still leaves it way ahead of most books - perhaps because the first three felt like an event movie trilogy and this felt like that fourth movie that was made because the trilogy was such a hit... more of the same but less? I don't want to damn the book w faint praise, there was some very solid Malazan action i'll get to below. But while most books in the series require at least a fairly complicated explanation, FORGE amounts to 'characters try to stop runaway volcano', and that's a surprisingly simplistic description for a Malazan book. The Malazan campaign into Falar, the Jhistal cult politicking, the Jheck, the start of the split within the Crimson Guard... all of these are subsumed within the K'Volcano plot, and while i have criticized other books where the plots never cross over, here i wonder whether some greater separation might have been useful.

Also, most of the characters who matter are characters we know, and we know they survive, and we know where they end up - in fact most of them are already there. It's a problem w any prequel, but here almost everyone who matters - Tays, Das, Dancer, Kel, Dujek, Cartheron, Mallick Rel, even Ullen - will survive. That leaves Hessa and her crew, Gianna and her supporting cast, Ullara, and the Abbess, as validly 'at risk' and compared to the better known characters i found it harder to care.



BESTEST PART I THOUGHT WAS BEST - This is easy... the two incursions by the Malazan Big Guns into the K'Chain mountain were the highlights of the book. I enjoyed the hell out of the first run, which demonstrated Tays continuing evolution, interacted w the Crimson Guard group, brought Hessa and Torugin into the fold, hooked Nightchill up w Bellurdan, and clashed w Feral.

Importantly, we got the interplay between Dassem and Tays and Tays' suspicions and maybe just a little jealousy around Das' growing popularity. We know down the line that Surly is going to move against Das because of this while Tays stays in the fold. It's a long road to the tent in NoK and i liked seeing the roots of that here. The early iteration of Das' 'Sword' was also a nice touch, as was the parallel appearance of Tay's minders who he eventually replaces with people sworn directly to him, also seen in NoK.

I absolutely loved the Guards' reaction to encountering the Malazans.... "EVERYONE ON DASSEM!"... ffs they are four Avowed including the Weapons Master and two - Black and Jacinth - who are probably just a notch below, and they freak rtf out when Dassem shows up. Nightchill and Tays might as well not even be there... tho all the mages were having problems at that point and they don't know who Nightchill is.

Unfortunately for Nightchill, Feral knew who she was and threw down without hesitation. On the one hand i would have liked a bit more conflict, mostly because i liked what we saw of Feral to that point and seeing her go knives out with Nightchill would have been neat. Otoh, we know from early PoS books that Nightchill is close to Dancer in assassin skills, and Feral taking her down that fast w one knife was HUGE.

Which gives Tays another moment of glory throwing down w Feral. At that moment we know Feral is a draconic Andii with the skills to take out an Elder God. We also know Tays has had at least one powerup from his confrontation w the Kell Hunters, so this part of the fight was telling for both characters, and a pretty amazing 'Malazan moment'.


More to follow...

[Abyss]

The Malazans' second run at the K'Volcano was also fun. Tays' holding the barrier against the Jhistal was key of course, but the Shi'gal's ease in taking down Das and Hessa, and practically ignoring Dancer's attack, was pretty wild. Hessa's death was failry low key... i'm a little split (pun intended) on this because she was a POV character up to then, but her death was not all that significant. She wasn't so skilled that the Shigal taking her out made any point we didn't already know or see. Her willingness to engage a Shigal was important because others' had rased that it was a big deal, but she barely had a chance to decide. It attacks, she whips out her sword, she's down.

Then Tays' unloads on it and this IS a big deal because the Shigal is a big deal, but otoh we just saw him do this to Feral so the impact (pun intended) is less. It sets the stage for his stand against the Jhistal when already exhausted, so there is that, but even so, the Shigal drops in, gets blasted, shuts a door, and that's the last we see of it which left me a bit dissappointed. The 'it's protecting the Hive Queen' explanation doesn't work for me because the intruders can damage the mountain - they already have as far as the Shigal is concerned -, it has an advantage, and instead of wiping out the intruders it backs off. Tays' attack is the whole explanation and it works, and what we know of Shigal is pretty scattered so it's not illogical but i did find it a bit impractical... hit the characters w a seemingly undefeatable foe, then have the foe just back off behind a door, was not the satisfying fight i was hoping for. It worked, it just left me wanting what we didn't get. It's also a hell of a dangler given the book ends w the mountain just sitting there w a master assassin lizard camped out inside.

It was fun to have Dancer step in here, but not seeing much Dancer v Shigal was also a missed opportunity for me. The lizard dropped Das in seconds. I would have liked to see Dancer stepping in and standing longer, or dropping just as fast.

Tays' stand against the Jhistal was a neat moment, and again developes his character further. I have some issues w the Jhistal as a plot device i'll get to, but regardless it was a neat moment for a character we're familiar with, and also consistent w Tays nearly frying himself w the tainted warrens when striking at Kallor and then the Coral Mages in MoI.

[Abyss]

Gianna - Anyone remember Ghele from RCG? Brave young girl in events beyond her control tries to escape and take control of her life? Or Orchid from OST? brave young girl in events beyond her control yadda yadda you see where i'm going w this? Well, that. It's not that Gianna is a bad character, she isn't, but her plotline is familiar and unsurprising and repetitious. I liked her meeting w Mael/Bugg, but it didn't have sufficient gravitas to lead to her inheriting the power to drop tidal waves on people. I can accept that Mael recognized her inherent goodness vs the rest of the cult, and that she inadvertently freed him tho he doesn't seem to notice at the time, but the events are given little 'hype' and until the Cult notices the water is missing from the pit, it's all very non-event. Then he shows up, says 'hi', she disses him and he leaves and then she summons the Jhistal more or less by accident just because he told her she could.... and then proceeds to take out the volcano. It's just such a series of non-events that by the time the Big Event happens if found it predictable and without much impact. Of course the Jhistal was going to be sent against the K'Volvano... what else could happen? And her deep abiding concern for the old blood youths taken by the cult would have held a lot more drama for me if she, or we, had learned a few of their names ( i know one of them gets named once but it was barely an aside and she wasn't even sure of it). I did like her ex smuggler sidekick Torva and Capt Brevin tho'. And despite my non-plussed feelings about her summoning the Jhistal, i did very like when she Ruse'd the pirate ship pursuing the Glimmer.

Cartheron - i adored Cartheron's segments. He was fun, his crew were great supporting cast (THE NOSE!), his perspective on and exasperation with Kel and Dancer were perfect as both comic relief and an eye on the Empire.

Abbess Glinith - entirely predictable. I knew she was going to be Mallick's patsy about two chapters in and she managed to never surprise me except for her stupidity in not seeing it coming. Boring character who added very little to the story other than telling us how evil and manipulative Mallick was, which we already knew in spades.

Mallick - Was evil. We get it. Nothing new here. Even his willingnes to sacrifice kids wasn't a reveal. While I did like that he was working the angles from the beginning to set himself up as a high mage for the Malazans, we knew he had to end up there, so the last chapter reveal wasn't a shocker (tho it was nifty to see Aragan, as always).

Tayshrenn - I loved Tays' plotline. He evolution from standoffish mage to 'High Mage', slightly less standoffish, his need to push himself, his lessons from Nightchill and Hairlock (of all people), all were well written, on point, and interesting. When he ventures into the battle to help the soldiers against the Kell it's a striking contrast to the aloof powerhouse striking from a distance that we meet in GotM and MoI, and it totally works.

Kellanved - is perfect in this book. In particular how its rarely clear whether he's THAT smart or just making it up as he goes. "Welcome to Shadow!" ... hee.

Blues and the Crimson Guard - They really didn't add much to the story. We got the beginning of the split caused by Skinner but i'm not sure we needed it. That EVERYONE ON DASSEM scene was great tho' and it's significant because of who they are. And i did appreciate the duality ICE brought to Gwynn, between stodgy stuck in his ways loyalist to Skinner yet fond acquaintance to Ullara.

Ullara - I did not love Ullara in the PoA. I found her too much the victim and not interesting enough to merit Dancer's attention. Here, as leader of the Jheck, i liked her MUCH more interesting. There's an inherent disconnect between being a frail old woman who can chat w birds and the leader of several tribes of werebears and werewolves. ICE made it work nicely. I enjoyed her reunion w Dancer despite my (lack of) feelings about their earlier not-relationship.

The Jheck - ...got their butts kicked repeatedly in this book and i rather enjoyed it. The Guard driving them off was fun, but Dujek drawing them in and then beating the living hell out of them was exactly what i read this series for. Loved that scene.

Jan/Janelle - really didn't do much for the story. I like the idea of Kel having a network of Meanas mages working for him personally, but these two were not actually all that impressive at their jobs.

Feral - was great, i wish we had gotten more of her instead of Endest Silann wandering around looking at things and telling us how powerful he was but never showing it. Her confrontation w Nightchill and Tays was excellent. Her stomping off to get a new wardrobe and yell some baseless declarations at Rake, not so much. I like the hints that Nightchill's efforts to get to Dragnipur and Feral's prejudice against humans eventually converge to the clash between the ME and Rake's forces in Genabackis, but i would have liked to have seen more of it now. And given all we're told in the MBF about Rake bringing his people to war to save them from immortal angst, Feral's accusations seem pointless.

Imanaj - Had two excellent fight scenes (seriously the dules w the would-be champions and his solo battle against the raiders are both fantastic reads) and i LOL'd when Cartheron stole his ship. Otherwise his part in the story was minimal. I do, however, wonder whether he declaration to his mom at the end that the Malazans were not a threat wasn't a deliberate misdirect because the only way he can get out of the Champion job is for the city to fall to the Malazans. I suspect ICE is setting up for a clash between him and Das in the next book. As a part o this book, Imanaj was fun but forgettable. as possible setup for the next book, whatever ICE is doing, i'm here for it.

Dujek - was great. Very in character as both a great commander and a salt-of-the-earth guy just doing his job.
...so let's talk about the lizard-elephant in the room. After much thought and some selective rereading, it's not impossible to reconcile that the Empire confronted the K'Chain Che'malle in Falara and were still caught by surprise at Coral. Naturally at no point in MoI did Dujek ever say 'oh crap these guys again' because this book wasn't even an idea when SE wrote MoI, bu the actual conflict between the K'Chain and the Malazans is limited to a handfull of Kell, and in Coral the Seer doesn't set them on the Malazans til the end - the Grey Swords and Gruntle's group and Toc's group all encounter them, but not the Malazans. It's hard to argue the armies in MoI should have been better repared when they barely fought here. SO it's a retcon, and it's not a smooth one, but it's not a problematic one either - i read xmen comics, my brain is used to this, it's not my biggest problem w the book or arguably even A problem at all. I can work w it just fine because i absolutely love the idea of an entire K'Chain city contained in a travelling volcano.

Singer - his connection to the PoA books could have been a tiny bit clearer, and i would have liked to have known a little more about how he took over control from the sleeping Matron. That said, the idea of a Jaghut taking over a K'Chain city and needing some humans to operate the thing works just fine in my brain.

Hessa - had a great big target on her from her first appearance. I did like her loyalty to her crew tho. And the twins Hyde and Ayal were fun.

Ships - y'know, given the sheer amount of time on ships in this book it's kind of astounding that there wasn't one on the cover, tho we did get the nautical navigation tools at the bottom of the pic.


I'll probably have more to say but those are my thoughts having Just Finished FORGE OF THE HIGH MAGE.

[tiam]

Glad to see you've finished it. Pretty much agree with your thoughts in the main.

My other thread Champ and I were discussing it as we both seemed to binge it in 48 hours are pretty much the same as yours. An OK book, probably the worst out of the PoA books but still enjoyable. I think the few people who have commented found the Tays sections the best portion of this, woth some of the others not really adding much.

Where I would disagree is the retcon. I appreciate you say your used to it and it can be excused if your charitable and selectively read MOI with one eye squinted but it doesn't really wash. The extrapolated Kallor overviews we get outline alot of stuff most of the characters already know it seems.

Your spot on in that this happens with books after the main arc. Revelations are treated like common knowledge even though they shouldn't be. I think 2 Matrons, Morn and the Lether one, are fine especially given we know Lether continent is a massive backwater.

But ultimately this is the biggest break of the prequel novels. Minor race changes and a few shimmys here and there are fine but this essentially means there is a huge volcano, as you put it I prefer hoverkeep, of KCCM with a matron and atleast one Shi'gal in the heartland of the Empire that they all fought. The next book will be 7c, as you note with the champion and literally no one mentions it. We have stories of Fid clashing with Rylandaras and Trake but at no point does anyone mention the KCCM?

It's a poor retcon and knocked me out of the book in truth, as well as the other points around Gianna and the kids, the CGRD adding little etc.

Again I don't want to be negative about ICEs books but they are jarring.

This post has been edited by tiam: 21 April 2023 - 06:49 PM

[worry]

I don’t mind the KCCM at all really. Hardly anyone truly encountered them, MOI happens like what, a generation later? Certainly none of the Bridgeburners are here, and Onearm’s Host isn’t really a thing yet either. And it’s clearly a state secret post- these events.

I’m sure there are conflicting details, and I think it’s fine to call it a retcon, but it’s not so radical to me.

One thing that woulda been timeline busting for sure, but that I thought we were getting, is a ‘real’ Drift Avalii origin story. But I think this moving mountain does provide an oblique explanation at least!

[tiam]

worry, on 23 April 2023 - 05:39 PM, said:

I don’t mind the KCCM at all really. Hardly anyone truly encountered them, MOI happens like what, a generation later? Certainly none of the Bridgeburners are here, and Onearm’s Host isn’t really a thing yet either. And it’s clearly a state secret post- these events.

I’m sure there are conflicting details, and I think it’s fine to call it a retcon, but it’s not so radical to me.

One thing that woulda been timeline busting for sure, but that I thought we were getting, is a ‘real’ Drift Avalii origin story. But I think this moving mountain does provide an oblique explanation at least!

One arms host isn't a thing but we have hundreds of soldiers fighting the Kell for long periods of time. As I said if it was just Dassems group in the sky keep that would be fine but the main army (not on Korel) fought them. Its implied this is early one arms host.

I thought Drift Avalii was a Meckros type city though isn't it? We know Rake found Moonspawn in the ice and there's no mention of it Avalii being a sky keep, though I see what you mean it would make sense that he takes the mobile one and sends the other into the ocean to protect the throne.

I dont think it would have broken the timeline too much either, we know Endest had the children for years before Andarist took them so the throne could have been hidden for years by Rake then he discovered the hoverkeep, sent it into the sea with his brother and children. It does fit and would have been a better use for it than the Shigal lowering the shutters and that's that.

[Cyphon]

Surely the KCCM hoverkeep for Drift Avali doesn't work on the basis that moving it would be boiling the ocean and a moving natural disaster? The floating bit only works as long as the engines are going.

[worry]

That’s when it’s fully on. Imagine a single propeller buzzing it around like one of those toy speedboats you take in the bath tub.