[Roland]

You know, it kinda is plain written this was Korel (or was it Jakuruku? Whatever, one of the twin continents). And since the continent was so scarred, it was taken out of the world by K'rul and later turned into the Imperial Warren. This is said as early as DG.

[Roland]

No, it was just that one continent. He seems to have exaggerated. Besides, if you look closer, you'll see the Malazan multiverse is based on the D&D rules. There is only ONE real world. The rest are circling around it. I think there was something like this in Heboric's visions of the jade giants, who come from another "prime material plane", that is - other *planet*. But this *planet*, on which the Malazan empire is built, has its own set of "pocket planes" - the warrens. And although many of them are extremely big, I don't think there are humans on any of them.

This is all just speculation, but it's what I get of the picture from the books.

[Roland]

Yup, I just forgot which one it was

[Hume]

Yeh the continent of Jacurku was the one that is now the Imperial warren.
Where the home of kallors empire seems to have been.


yes Kallors empire did span entire continents as well. I think it was before the human first empire, not sure though.
Two continents were destroyed in his downfall one permanently the other temporary. The permanent one being Jacaruku, the temporary one being the one that the Crippled god fell on. I think that may have been Korelri, could be wrong though.

[Morgoth]

What intrigues me though, is how Kallor could hold such ultimate power, and be so oppressive when he was himself not a sorceror. I've been wondering exactly how he controled his empire to such an extent 12 mages powerfull enough to bring down the CG could find no other way to kill him

[Hume]

yeh, I always had impression that he was a sorceror else how would he be able to place a curse on elder gods?

[Morgoth]

A curse is not necessarily the sole domain of a sorceror though. Or that is my impression at any rate..

In a world with such powerfull magic, it would seem to me you'd have to be a pretty powerful mage yourself in order to be able to control an opressive empire

[Roland]

Why do you think his empire was before the first human empire? I've never seen any hinting of when it was.

[Tenaka Khan]

The cursing of the Elder Gods was discussed a loooong time ago once, but the thread has long disappeared. A sort of consensus if I remember it correctly was that Kallor had the power to curse the Kr'ul and company because he had just sacrificed millions of his citizens/slaves to avoid that they could be freed from his tyranny. I still wonder however how he actually managed to incincerate a whole continent...

He must have had some pretty powerful aces up his sleeve while ruling, else his mages would not have thought it necessary to call upon a god to get rid of him. And he is a sorcerer, isn't he? I thought he had used the Crippled God's warren while attacking WJ to cancel the threat Tays represented.

Does anyone have an idea what race he actually belongs to? I always thought of him as human, but that would men that he established his empire after the Jaghut/Imass era. One would think that if that was the case that the T'lan Imass would not have tolerated his existence. Aaargh! These books are just too confusing somtimes. But that's why I luv'em so much I think:p

[Roland]

Kalor is human, yes, and he ruled after the Imass First Empire. I don't think the Imass would want to have anything to do with him, since he had no connections to any Jaghut, at least not known to us. And he incinerated Jacuruku with machines (the evidence was found by Kalam in DG, while using the Imperial Warren). I gather his empire was technological and he had enough weapon might to back his claim to power. Besides, I guess he had mages of his own, so the renegades couldn't get to him through ordinary means and needed the CG.

[Tenaka Khan]

I just thought that the T'lan Imass would not look kindly upon a tyranny on the scale of Kallor's empire. Being enslaved by cruel and vicious tyrants was the reason they started wiping the Jaghut away from the face of the earth after all.

It is a long time since I read DG, gotta pay attention to the Imperial warren thing then

[Tes'thesula]

kallor, one of my favourite subjects...
kallor and his empire existed almost simultaneous to the First Empire, just across the world to it. it seems to me that it was an empire of humans and that kallor himself is a human.
That kallor managed to oppresss an entire continent in the lifespan of a mortal human speaks of what we know, his natural talent as a general, i suspect that before his curse that he was also a natural leader, and under him i imagine that he had a legion of high mages. remember that the curse of the elder gods means that kallor can never acheive anything of significance, "every time you rise, you shall fall." this to me means that he cannot create bonds with people, as that would be the foundation of something, plus he has had thousands of years to become a bitter creature, perhaps twisting any charisma he may once have had...

why would the tlan imass not tolerate his existance? he is a mortal human, his actions aren't splitting any warrens, unlike the first empire, and his final action seems to have happened rather quickly, and the punishment completed by the elder gods.

kallor does not seem to be a sorceror, he doesn't like magic, relying on alchemy to keep active, but the question i ask, is how tough is he, Anomander believes that it may require a full unvelling of KG to destroy him?

[MottIrregular]

"I have walked the land when the T'lan Imass were but children"

(taken from the classic dialogue that ends with Brood saying: "Yes Kallor. You never learn.")

[Tes'thesula]

i think kallor was exaggerating slightly...remember, the placement of the apostraphe means that the imass were undead by this point, perhaps he refers only to the fact that relative to the present age, the t'lan imass were young when he was alive (although they had been undead for 200,000 years)

[Roland]

This quote is GotMism I think... And yes, it's pretty much the way mjgill says, I think...

[Tiste Simeon]

I don't think we should be so quick to throw "GOTMism" around... I think as mjgill says, that Kallor could have been around when the T'lan Imass were young, but not necessarily the Imass... Had Kallor been left by the three Elder Gods, then the T'lan Imass may have waged eternal war on humans as well, despite not wanting to...

[Tenaka Khan]

..and I think that quote is from MoI, not GotM.