[Tiste Simeon]

Ijon Tichy said:

It's completely understandable that she's extremely bitter towards the whole world.

Understandable about her rant against the world, true, but what most people are saying is that she was just a psychotic cow to the people who were supposed to help her. That's why most people hate her... It was all "Look, woman - shut up!"

[Matrim]

They weren't just supposed to help her, they saved her life a few times, IIRC. Her behaviour towards Baudin, Heboric and Kulp is the reason I don't like Felisin, I couldn't care less if she was angry with the rest of the world or not.

[Tiste Simeon]

Well, yeah that's what I meant. Baudin and Heboric were in the mines with her, to save her life and get her out of there. Sure she would be mad at Tavore, but perhaps had she been a bit nicer, and they had made it out together (like if Baudin had been with them, could Gryllen have been able to trick them all like he did?) then Tavore could have (perhaps) sorted something out. Course, this doesn't really matter, and DON'T READ THIS SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED THIS BOOK, as

Spoiler

Felisin is dead. boo hoo.

[Trotts]

Tiste Simeon said:

I think Felisin would have been better had she made an effort to stick with Baudin and Heboric, and be nice to them. By the time she realised it, it was too late.

i think thats the point. poor felisin is a tragically flawed character.

Spoiler

she doesnt know baudin is there to protect her, and she thinks heboric is her friend but all he ever does is act dissapointed in her, or exclude her from his plans. and when she (in her mind) gets some sembelence of a life with beneth, its taken away from her by baudin. granted we know that it was (would have been) for the best, because her life with beneth wasent really a life, but from her perspective she was just thrown into an even worse situation, untill she becomes sha'ik and is eventually consumed by her own desires of revenge, which ultimatly culminates in being killed by tavore, when all felisin wants it to understand why tavore didnt love her

[Darkwatch]

Felisin did show gratitude to Heboric, it's one of the reasons she sold herself to Beneth, to get him out of hard labour detail. But Heboric only responds with dissapointment. And like all people when you help others, and they show no reciprical amical feelings (until of course the break out) you tend to become bitter thinking them to be ingrates. Baudin was there to protect her, though she didn't know that, and on top of that he didn't really take on a protective role, he went more for the protect through teaching her about the rough side of life and how to deal with it her self so if I'm killed she won't be screwed. Which isn't apparent until he dies. Add to the fact that he did take advantage of her later even though by then she was not naive.

Spoiler

Also when she became Sha'ik she made sure Heboric was looked after, kept him on her official council and didn't throw him asside. While she may have complained a lot verbally, she did show him gratitude through acts.

[Tiste Simeon]

Well like I said I much preferred her in HoC as Sha'ik than as Felisin in DG... And I understand what you two are saying, I dunno why Heboric kept showing disappointment in her, but all I figured is that if I were in a situation like that, I would stick with the people I knew who cared for me, and who were looking out for me (as in they protected her in the day of blood, in Unta...)
Though I will admit that Tavore coming out and parading up and down then looking at Felisin and blanking her was a very stupid thing to do...

[Folken]

Straight from Steven Erikson
"Felisin is gone."
http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Felisin

[Tiste Simeon]

Leoman has the book? I thought that the whole point of him being annoyed is that he is being chased, and that the tribes leader of the armies (whose name temporarily eludes me) has the book. Leoman is just trying to stay alive IIRC.

[Tes'thesula]

yes doesn't mathok (i think thats his name) have the book...he rode off before everything REALLY started to fall apart, leaving a few tribes to guard shaik

[Blind]

The book wasn't really important for Sha'ik. Felisin never opened it, but the goddess controlled her anyway. There won't be any rebirth now that Dryjna is gone.

[Trotts]

maybe im mistaken, but i though that felisin did open it, or was it that she made everyone else open it

[Blind]

My memory of DG is that she made Leoman open it, but she didn't open it herself. She wanted to keep her identity, and her plans of vengeance, from being consumed by the goddess.

[Tiste Simeon]

I think she did open the book - first Heboric, then Karsa, then Leoman then herself, iirc... if anything getting the others to open the book reinforced her proof of being Sha'ik Reborn. She could see into them... Also they wouldn't have let her continue if she hadn't opened the book.

[Blind]

Quote

[Leoman] bowed. 'None could deny the power that has come to you, yet...'
'Yet I did not myself open the Holy Book.'
He met her eyes. 'You did not.' (tpb p. 525)

This is just before they arrive in Raraku. Leoman knows that she hasn't been "reborn", but the rebellion needs a Sha'ik, and he lets her go on. The goddess needs one as well, that's why she grants her power to Felisin.

[Tiste Simeon]

OK, my bad. Sorry, though I do seem to remember her opening it... I wonder why I have this false memory?

[GaesII]

Quote

Understandable about her rant against the world, true, but what most people are saying is that she was just a psychotic cow to the people who were supposed to help her. That's why most people hate her... It was all "Look, woman - shut up!"
__________________

You see, this is why I have a hard time feeling sorry for her. She effectively sells her soul and then expects all around her to feel sorry for her. Not happening honey.......
I found myself quite drawn to Heboric..........here was someone who had resignes himself to his fate, yet didn't complain and did all he could to try to help Felisin.

[Tiste Simeon]

GaesII said:

I found myself quite drawn to Heboric..........here was someone who had resignes himself to his fate, yet didn't complain and did all he could to try to help Felisin.

Whilst making sarccy comments all the way, no less.

[Folken]

GaesII said:

You see, this is why I have a hard time feeling sorry for her. She effectively sells her soul and then expects all around her to feel sorry for her. Not happening honey.......
I found myself quite drawn to Heboric..........here was someone who had resignes himself to his fate, yet didn't complain and did all he could to try to help Felisin.

probably the first explaination that makes sense on why one would dislike her;) lol
If I view it from that POV yup, I'd hate her myself but then again like I said I view it from the POV of an older brother. It hurts

[Tiste Simeon]

Jen said:

probably the first explaination that makes sense on why one would dislike her;) lol
If I view it from that POV yup, I'd hate her myself but then again like I said I view it from the POV of an older brother. It hurts

That's what I have been saying all along, just not quite so well worded. You view it from the POV of an older brother? Why? Her older brother is missing/presumed dead/presumed renegade and he doesn't know anything about it. The only other person who knows about her in their is Tavore. Try viewing it from her perspective.