Malazan Empire: Draconian family tree - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 10 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Draconian family tree

#21 User is offline   Roland 

  • High Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 444
  • Joined: 16-September 05

Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:16 PM

Darkness. But this means nothing. She could wield 20 warrens as far as we know. And how could K'rul be aspected, when he holds within his body ALL warrens in existence? :)
0

#22 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:46 PM

HUME said:

I think thats true that anyone with a fairly decent amount of magical ability and probably more importantly knowledge can be a soletaken/divers.

Remember when Loric is talking to the blokes of the apocalypse in their meeting near the start of HoC and goes something along the lines of "Ware the soletaken among us, as the new occupants of the beast throne may seek your obediance" Thats not a direct quote but its something similar to that. It does suggest that soletakens can and do exist amongst current mages as well.


When L'oric said that he was referring to the fat woman(can't remember her name) who was a soletaken. I'm not sure she was both a mage and a soletaken but the fact that people like Tayschrenn aren't soletaken kinda proves that the two states, soletaken and mage, are independant of each other.

I remember Gryllen mentioning something about Kulps warren and having an affinity to magic but he also said he had no command of it. Perhaps the ability to veer is linked to a particular warren aswell?
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#23 Guest_Gode_*

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:57 PM

Dolmen said:

When L'oric said that he was referring to the fat woman(can't remember her name) who was a soletaken. I'm not sure she was both a mage and a soletaken but the fact that people like Tayschrenn aren't soletaken kinda proves that the two states, soletaken and mage, are independant of each other.



I agree. We've seen example of soletaken who can use magic, and who can not use magic. The Jheck, for example, seemed to have veering as a natural ability, not to mention whats-his-name who accepted becoming soletaken in order to spy on Broach.

Considering that it can go either way, I posit that spellcasting and formchanging are entirely separate. I was actually talking about this in another thread, as well, in reference to the Elder Gods. If Godhood doesn't automatically impart the ability to veer, I don't know why simply being a mage would. There's clearly some sort of complicated intricacy involved. :)
0

#24 Guest_Gode_*

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:59 PM

Oh, and Roland, that was exactly what I was getting at. Personally, I think that K'rul and the Warrens deserves its own thread. *chuckles*

You know, that sounds like a band. K'rul and the Warrens. I guess if they had to play a type of music, it would be Countries. Ah, I crack myself up, sometimes, and yes, I know that that joke was a reach. *chuckles*
0

#25 User is offline   Roland 

  • High Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 444
  • Joined: 16-September 05

Posted 10 December 2005 - 03:16 PM

Btw, Jorram said it good enough - there are different ways of achieving shapeshifting. Just like with Ascendancy. The part about magical knowledge and power is only one of those ways, not the only one. So I don't see why you're all arguing about that :) Of course there are Soletaken and D'ivers who can't use magic and vice versa. But I'm quite sure Gryllen was a sorcerer and was lying in DG, when he said he is not a practitioner.
0

#26 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 10 December 2005 - 03:38 PM

I was thinking, ALL the soletaken could access the Elder warren of the Imass. Hows that possible? perhaps veering gives you access to any warren?
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#27

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:20 PM

Or perhaps it all stems from the Imass ... or even further... the Beast Hold.
after all Olar Ethil is the first bonecaster... the first soletaken?
0

#28 Guest_Gode_*

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:29 PM

That depends. Are we considering the Draconians who can shift into dragons to be soletaken? Or are they an entirely different animal?
0

#29 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:43 PM

Soletakens. I see your point Gode, Olar ethil was the first veering Imass but the likes of Rake and Ruin could veer aswell. their ability to do that stems from drinking tiams blood, an act of drawing a portion of tiams power.

I guess you got to ask which is older the beast hold or the dragons themselves, personaly I think its dragons, who may be linked to Krul in their ability to travel kruls blood effortlessly. kinda like an extension of patient zero.
(Is this worthy of the crazy theory thread?)
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#30

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:48 PM

According to FW - the Hold of the Beast came before the Hold of the Eleint..
but thats only one point of view of course :)
0

#31 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:03 PM

I neva got that myself, how can the hold of beasts exclusive to the malaz world be older than the eleint who seem to occur in multiple other worlds and/or warrens?
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#32

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 10 December 2005 - 05:08 PM

ah well... I think that FW's divination of the Holds is in reference to the Malazan World itself... and the Eleint existed in another realm (Starvald Demelain), as did the Andii, Edur etc.
So perhaps the Hold of the Eleint came into being on the Malazan World after they arrived here from another realm? Pure speculation... :)
0

#33 User is offline   Illuyankas 

  • Retro Classic
  • Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
  • Posts: 7,254
  • Joined: 28-September 04
  • Will cluck you up

Posted 10 December 2005 - 06:12 PM

Going back to an earlier question, we know Rake has more than two kids, and I doubt they all are Draconean, but perhaps after he had these children with Envy, then, if they all had that choice to find Tiam and drink her blood, only Phaed and Nimander Golit chose to drink, becoming Elient. Baruk's list could only have those which chose to become Draconean. Maybe. I'm not sure, but this almost makes sense.

And I don't think L'oric is a dragon, as he could have easily evaded the Deragoth in Raraku's memories, and wouldn't need Osric to carry him around.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
0

#34 User is offline   Roland 

  • High Fist
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 444
  • Joined: 16-September 05

Posted 10 December 2005 - 08:55 PM

Btw, it's said early on in GotM that one can access any warren with enough knowledge, but this doesn't give him control over it. SOME Soletaken and D'ivers could part the fabric of reality, tearing wounds in the warrens to invade them, but not all of them. Many traveled Raraku on foot which suggests not every shapeshifter could access the warrens.
0

#35 User is offline   fan_83 

  • First Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 680
  • Joined: 05-January 03

Posted 11 December 2005 - 12:02 AM

remember back to the first empire...they chose the path of soletaken to ascendency..that implies that veering =/= magic... it need knowledge, power and perhaps ritual..thats it. no magic required.. if you could get someone to do the ritual for you....

also I would guess that the hold of dragons is older than the hold of the beast.. but the malazan incarceration of the hold of dragons is younget than the hold of the beast as age can only be counted with a point of reference...
0

#36 User is offline   Sty 

  • Recruit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 23
  • Joined: 01-January 03

Posted 21 December 2005 - 08:47 PM

But if K'rul's blood is what makes the warrens, then, would that mean that he is an embodiment of chaos? Since chaos is what supposedly surrounds all of the warrens, and being the pathways between them. This is touched upon, at least the matter of chaos in contrast to the warrens, in Gardens of the Moon with Hairlock, as well as Memories of Ice with Toc the Younger and the Beast Hold.

The whole Dragon Hold vs Beast Hold debate deserves some new kindling to its ashes. Togg and Fanderay are mentioned to be creatures that come from a warren far older than that of the Elder Gods (Memories of Ice), implying that chaos, coming before order, manifested in a hold, the Beast Hold (which sounds more chaotic than the Dragon Hold) before order.
There are bits and pieces of information dropped in hints when Draconus speaks of Dragnipuhr as well as in the prologue of Memories of Ice and Hairlock's adventures in chaos in GotM that darkness was a manifestation of order forced upon the chaos that was everywhere.

Anyway, first reply in a long time, hope it'll bring some discussion again :D

Edit: Oh, and with the soletaken magery thing, Gryllen to be more precise, the fact that he kept Messremb away during the fight in Deadhouse Gates with some kind of magical barrier, and the fact that he had several undead slaves should be a small pointer towards him being a mage.
0

#37 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:40 PM

Sty said:

Edit: Oh, and with the soletaken magery thing, Gryllen to be more precise, the fact that he kept Messremb away during the fight in Deadhouse Gates with some kind of magical barrier, and the fact that he had several undead slaves should be a small pointer towards him being a mage.


I thought the same thing. The way I see it depending on your veering ability you can develop a form of magery from it. I think soletaken can tap inderectly to the beast warren when veering and the knowledgeable ones may be able to manipulate it into mage power.

Btw if Tiam is dead does that mean no more draconian soletaken? afterall a dragon only has so much blood, surely its run out?
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#38 User is offline   Hume 

  • Banned Like a Mushroom
  • Group: Banned Users
  • Posts: 0
  • Joined: 10-July 04

Posted 01 January 2006 - 01:52 PM

If tiam dies there cant be any more draconian soletakens..

The ones that are already Draconian soletaken would still stay draconian me thinks.

#39 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

  • is probably lying
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malazan Artist
  • Posts: 2,692
  • Joined: 04-September 05
  • Location:Camorr
  • Interests:Walks in the park.

    Waiting till jean gets here.

Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:27 PM

yeah but is that it? no more new ones?

I just think it sucks that there aint no otha way 2 bcme draconian soletaken
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
0

#40 Guest_Olorin_*

  • Group: Unregistered / Not Logged In

Posted 24 January 2006 - 06:04 AM

Am I the only one praying that Rake and Osseric meet up soon??? Hahah..probably not. Jeez...just think...Rake, Osseric and Silchas all in the same room/tent/VIP room...oh the possibilities....
0

Share this topic:


  • 10 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users