[ArchieVist]

So Erikson has recently revived his Twitter account and posted an excerpt from Walk in Shadow that confirms at least one major theory about the High King.

Walk in Shadow spoilers:

Spoiler

@erikson_steven/status/1441167012835643395

This post has been edited by ArchieVist: 23 September 2021 - 11:51 PM

[nacht]

Who is the one narrating? Draconus? Krul?

[Gorefest]

Well, it would be Gallan, right? Didn't he narrate the first two as well?

[Gorefest]

At least it is confirmed without a shadow of a doubt now that it is indeed Kallor. Hrm.

[Aptorian]

I don't like that the "Elder High King" is Kallor.

It's messy in terms of our prior knowledge and the notion that Kallor isn't an ascendant but, at least as far as we understand it, a human being.

Why not just make the Elder times High King an old God that Kallor sought to emulate? Or make Kallor the son, grand son or what ever of the first High King.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 24 September 2021 - 10:07 AM

[Lady Bliss]

Meh, it matches being Kallor, but I agree he took the easy way out there.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 24 September 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

I don't like that the "Elder High King" is Kallor.

It's messy in terms of our prior knowledge and the notion that Kallor isn't an ascendant but, at least as far as we understand it, a human being.

Why not just make the Elder times High King an old God that Kallor sought to emulate? Or make Kallor the son, grand son or what ever of the first High King.

One of my biggest peeves with the Kharkanas trilogy. The main series established this concept of hundreds of thousands of years of world history and populates it with different events/Ascendants spanning all across that huge range of time (arguably that populating is a bit sparse for how huge it is, but it tries!), and then the Kharkanas books squeeze all those hundreds of millenia into a single starting point where it seems like either you were born/a big deal during the Kharkanas or you're irrelevant - just time skip forward a centi-millenia and a big yellow "nothing happened in-between" sign.

[Cyphon]

That is sort of real life though. I think I've read that a lot of the landowning/wealthy can trace their roots back to the Norman conquest in the UK.

[Siergiej]

I think there was enough foreshadowing about High King in Forge of Darkness and Fall of Light that it sort of had to be Kallor. I'm excited for what it means for the story and the timeline.

Someone on Reddit posted an interesting theory that Kharkanas trilogy is not a single coherent narrative but rather a collection of myths mixed together that don't actually share the same timeline. That would explain Kallor's presence and it definitely fits with the theme of Kharkanas but if it turns out to be true, I'd like a confirmation from Erikson.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Not sure how literally or expansively to take:

Spoiler

'He strides every world, after all, in innumerable guises [...] Dare we venture into that eternal nightmare. Ah, but this man is a dreamer. Does that surprise you? Let me show you.'

[amphibian]

My grump here is that the world (formerly known as Wu until events happened) seems to have attracted the Tiste, KCCM, KCNR, the Riders, and other species/groups that aren't native to that world.

Why would Kallor also come there from elsewhere? Especially if he's having big time rumbles with the Tiste.

In the washbasin of the wider universe of the Malazan books, is the Malazan world the sinkhole upon which downwardly circulating beings stream towards? Is this narrative convenience? A convergence? All of the above?

[Gorefest]

A fair question. Although could you not say the same about e.g. the 'world' of the Norse gods vs the Greek god vs the Egyptian ones vs the Sumerian ones etc? Asgard alone had 12 realms. Did Mount Olympus exist in the same space and/or time as mount Meru, or Asgard, or Takamagahara? Maybe we are just looking at this the wrong way and the inconsistencies are deliberate. I dunno. Perhaps the different spaces can coexist and can only lead to one realm (the Malazan world) because that is where their spiritual conception lies. They were where they were 300.000 years ago because the people in the 'now' believe they were. Sure, it shouldn't work that way because a lot of these races aren't gods or figments or metaphors but actual physical beings manifested in the Malazan world. But then again, didn't e.g. Gaiman have lots of conflicting deities and groups happily walk around on Earth in American Gods? Human history is loaded with mythological inconsistencies and we happily take them at face value as worthy tales in their own right. It might be overreaching and come crashing down in a major way once Walk in Shadows gives us the full rundown, but for now I'm happy to run with it and see where this is going.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 25 September 2021 - 06:32 AM

[Gorefest]

On rereading, I appreciate that this may sound very apologist and in most cases I would acknowledge that. But in most cases the author isn't an anthropologist/archeologist by trade.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

amphibian, on 24 September 2021 - 11:12 PM, said:

My grump here is that the world (formerly known as Wu until events happened) seems to have attracted the Tiste, KCCM, KCNR, the Riders, and other species/groups that aren't native to that world.

Why would Kallor also come there from elsewhere? Especially if he's having big time rumbles with the Tiste.

In the washbasin of the wider universe of the Malazan books, is the Malazan world the sinkhole upon which downwardly circulating beings stream towards? Is this narrative convenience? A convergence? All of the above?

(Spoiler tags seem unnecessary given prior discussion but I'll use them anyway)

Spoiler

At least according to the narrator (Gallan presumably) 'He strides every world, after all, in innumerable guises'... though Gallan could be wrong. A scholar trying to make sense of it, rendering Kallor as a sort of embodiment of an archetypal aspect....

OTOH if he's literally correct, Kallor wouldn't necessarily have to 'come there from elsewhere'. 'every world' could even include where the Crippled God is summoned from, etc. Granted, strictly speaking 'strides every world' could be interpreted as 'at some point' rather than simultaneously, but if that's the intended meaning then it seems intentionally misleading.

The idea of Kallor dreaming (like Burn, like Kruppe?) is interesting... not clear whether 'Dare we venture into that eternal nightmare. Ah, but this man is a dreamer. Does that surprise you? Let me show you.' refers to the book (or series) as a whole, and exactly what that means... strongest interpretation (the narrative is literally Kallor's dream) seems unlikely, except maybe in a metaphorical sense (archetypal desire and/or delusion and convergent associations etc.), or maybe the consequences of Kallor's dream....

[Siergiej]

This fragment might refer to 'dreaming' not as in sleeping but as in hoping/projecting for the for the future. Kallor does dream of sitting on a throne. It's his singular pursuit over the course of millenia and it turns into a nightmare for him because of the curse and for everyone involved because, well, Kallor is a massive twat.

This post has been edited by Siergiej: 25 September 2021 - 09:12 PM

[Keysi]

I do so love anything Kallor. Such an interesting character.

And this does fit with my theories on what it means to be an ascendant and god. And I think this still fits with the major over arching stories. If not quite with the time line.
Essentially I think that any being, including the azathanai can ascend, which we've seen many times.
I think Kallor may turn out to be an unascended azathanai, especially since the murder placed on him in the prologue of memories of ice. Then again he could also be some other mortal being who has been chasing power, empire and ascendancy, just like our loveable scamps Wu and Dancer. The fact that a High King appeared in these books led me to believe at first he was possibly an azathanai but who knows.
Just as I think Arathan also is so far. Comments by Draconus such as "you are nit yet ready for one such as errastas" (paraphrased fro my memory). The operative part being "yet".

[Khazduk]

I came to the conclusion many years ago, and also wrote it somewhere in a thread around here back then, that Kallor is the narrator trapped in his own creation. Or as it is put here, the dreamer who dreams of being a butterfly/tyrant/destroyer of worlds... but still can't or doesn't want to wake up.

Edit: https://forum.malaza...ost__p__1087033

This post has been edited by Khazduk: 21 December 2022 - 02:35 PM