[D'rek]

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 05:32 PM, said:

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 05:04 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 04:54 PM, said:

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 04:35 PM, said:

Khell can I get a wash for my commodities?

At the moment D'rek is helping me get hold of some PNs should I need to use them, so I am loth to help out and upset that, sorry!

If you have a deal with her then you have a deal with her. This isn't the same as popping Leadership which would break a deal with her. This is a deal just between you and me. If you are afraid that dealing with me will make is so she won't honor her deal with you then why should you honor yours?

Well you do make a compelling argument. But why is everyone else staying silent on this? Or possibly Morghy’s just not around till tomorrow now.

Let me see what Tatts has to say in reply to me first.

Like Twelve says, we didn't make any deal about you not trading with him, so I won't be piqued if you do or anything like that. Not much else to say about it yet since he hasn't actually suggested what he will give to you in return.

[Khellendros]

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 05:41 PM, said:

Khell how many more turns are you going to stall Leadership? I see you have 1 Tactical and 1 tech stall. Are you going to stall longer than that? I think I've found a possible play to salvage this mess D'rek put me in but it could only work if that is all the longer you stall. I'm trying to remember if D'rek has offered you a stall action or not.

I won’t be stalling more than that, and probably shorter if I come to an agreement with Tatts, which would mean not using Vortex.

[D'rek]

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 05:41 PM, said:

Khell how many more turns are you going to stall Leadership? I see you have 1 Tactical and 1 tech stall. Are you going to stall longer than that? I think I've found a possible play to salvage this mess D'rek put me in but it could only work if that is all the longer you stall. I'm trying to remember if D'rek has offered you a stall action or not.

Does it start with an S and rhyme with "bling ye day" ?

[twelve]

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 05:43 PM, said:

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 05:41 PM, said:

Khell how many more turns are you going to stall Leadership? I see you have 1 Tactical and 1 tech stall. Are you going to stall longer than that? I think I've found a possible play to salvage this mess D'rek put me in but it could only work if that is all the longer you stall. I'm trying to remember if D'rek has offered you a stall action or not.

I won't be stalling more than that, and probably shorter if I come to an agreement with Tatts, which would mean not using Vortex.

Well then I need to Speak with IH then.

IH I can move and be neighbors with you. This is what I propose. I straight up give you my 3 commodities for your Racial PN. I will fight Morgoth and will presumably lose some more infantry that I will convert to commodiites. On your next turn I turn those over to you. I will then use your racial as a stall and reallocate my remaining fleet token to Tactical. That will give me two stalls. When Leadership pops I will gain 2 CT that I will put into Tactical. I will free up my flagship and then attack Ixth. I will then sustain damage on my dreads gaining trade goods and fight D'rek's ground forces. When I hit the commodity limit I wlll trade the commodities over to you and whatever trade goods I still owe for the use of your racial. Whatever I'm short I will use a PN(s) of your choice to cover the costs. Is this something you would consider? I feel fairly confident I can straight up have 6 trade good value minimum from all the battles leaving my pns to cover the variance. I'd even be willing to trade the pns over early as collateral if you like.

Let me know your thoughts?

[twelve]

Actually I've redone the numbers. I can pay you 4 and a PN on my turn. Then on your next turn I'll hand over the remaining commodities and another PN for it. I can see D'rek having a lot of action cards that will likely force me to use all three of my sustain damages so I can guarantee 7 trade goods of value and 2 PNs.

[Khellendros]

Well that’s just so audacious that I want to say yes. That, and more importantly I may need the TGs considering I might be about to lose a load of them. I do still want to see what Tatts has to say before confirming however.

[Khellendros]

Tatts, if I don’t play Leadership then how about you keep your votes and I pay you something else as well, another PN on top of Trade?

[D'rek]

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 06:27 PM, said:

Well that’s just so audacious that I want to say yes. That, and more importantly I may need the TGs considering I might be about to lose a load of them. I do still want to see what Tatts has to say before confirming however.

I think the audacious offer was aimed at IH, not you.

Seems like Twelve needs both you and IH on board though, so how is he going to split that offer / also offer you something?

[D'rek]

(Maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out, let Khell feel betrayed by Twelve and break the peace between them...)

[Khellendros]

D, on 07 May 2021 - 06:32 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 06:27 PM, said:

Well that’s just so audacious that I want to say yes. That, and more importantly I may need the TGs considering I might be about to lose a load of them. I do still want to see what Tatts has to say before confirming however.

I think the audacious offer was aimed at IH, not you.

Seems like Twelve needs both you and IH on board though, so how is he going to split that offer / also offer you something?

Sad face. I’m reading this while doing three other things, and apparently not reading very well.

[Khellendros]

D, on 07 May 2021 - 06:33 PM, said:

(Maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out, let Khell feel betrayed by Twelve and break the peace between them...)

Super sad face.

[Imperial Historian]

So you are proposing that you will give me a total of 7TG and two PNs for my racial over a couple of turns?

If you give me your ceasefire first and 4TG and then your racial and the remaining 3TG as soon as you can I'm happy to do that deal.

If I hold your ceasefire I can be more confident you aren't going to renege on the deal as I can easily sell it off to cause you issues.

[Imperial Historian]

So much drama this turn!

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 04:19 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 07 May 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

I'm listening. My thoughts are a bit haphazard here so bear with me.

Agenda; Vortex, Mallice, Cormund, Leadership, Carrier, Tg's, Votes, Trade PN. Borders.


I wanted to discuss borders earlier in the game but you gave a nonchalant reply that was a bit wishy washy. So let us establish them now.

You don't use Vortex on me.


Mallice was my intention and I can agree to that.


You get to have Cormund.


You pop leadership on your next turn. D'rek already taken Twelve's home system and I would prefer to activate my home system to build,


You can keep my carrier.


You give me 5 TG's and your trade PN. In return I will give you an agreed amount of votes on the upcoming agendas.

I don't think you would go for this deal, and given that it is not a nice way to deal with neighbours I doubt you would stick to it anyway.

Honestly, I think it'd be more fun to attack Lodor and it would push me towards the construction PO. Obviously it'll put a dent in your plans which is an unfortunate bonus.

Most seems agreeable, but playing Leadership is a sticking point. Not just because I don't think D'rek would go for it, but because there's no guarantee that you wouldn't then just attack me in Lodor anyway. Think about it, I agree to this, give you all my stuff, you take Mallice or build in your home system, I pop Leadership, and then you use Leadership to just attack me anyway.

No if this deal goes ahead and you keep your end of the bargain then I'd keep mine. From here on it would be what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine. If there would be further way to strengthen the bond then I am open to options.

I'd move into Mallice then build in my home system and more than likely pass.

What IH said earlier about me leaving a lot to trust. I know you have integrity and are good for your word.

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 07 May 2021 - 06:40 PM, said:

So you are proposing that you will give me a total of 7TG and two PNs for my racial over a couple of turns?

If you give me your ceasefire first and 4TG and then your racial and the remaining 3TG as soon as you can I'm happy to do that deal.

If I hold your ceasefire I can be more confident you aren't going to renege on the deal as I can easily sell it off to cause you issues.

At what point will you pass me your racial? When I do the initial trade or when I do the second part on your turn but before my next one? Either one will work for me as I'll need it as a stall. And the two PNs were only collateral until I was able to pay the balance. I'd only be willing to give 1 as payment for the 2 trade goods I'm short for your racial. Also If you sell either one before I can cover the balance I'd consider whatever you got for it to go against my debt to you. I just want to be very clear on the terms so there isn't any misunderstanding. So the below is how I see the deal playing out. Let me know if you want to make any modifications to it.

My turn: 3 commodities, 1 TG and my ceasefire PN. in exchange for Muaat Racial maybe?

Your next turn: I give you x commodities (whatever I gain from my fight with Morgoth) and my Racial PN for Muaat Racial if not already given

The Turn I fight D'rek: I give you x TGs/and or commodities from the fight to you not to exceed 9 in total for the deal.

If the in full 9 trade good value is paid you will promptly start returning my PNs

Otherwise:

End of round you either consider 1 of my PNs is enough to pay off my debt and return the other. If not then I pay you the balance owed as soon as possible and you return my PNs after than. Also If you sell 1 or both of my PNs then whatever you gain from it goes to my debt and you return the remaining PN once you receive the 9 owed trade goods.

[D'rek]

Ohhhhh so the trade PNs were just for collateral and you expect them to go back? I thought you were making a much better offer than that ultimately turned out to be, then.

I like IH's idea of getting your ceasefire and faction PN as even more collateral, though. Be hilarious if IH just decides to keep all 3 collateral PNs, not much you could do about it, I think Twelve...

[twelve]

He said the cost was 9 trade goods. I trust IH to honor the deal. I'd be okay with him selling the pns even to you D'rek after I retake my homeworld. He could make a decent profit off them for sure. The whole purpose of the trade is for him to get his tgs and me tech and stall. But I wanted to make sure we are both on the same page before I make my move so there is no misunderstanding.

[D'rek]

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 07:44 PM, said:

He said the cost was 9 trade goods. I trust IH to honor the deal. I'd be okay with him selling the pns even to you D'rek after I retake my homeworld. He could make a decent profit off them for sure. The whole purpose of the trade is for him to get his tgs and me tech and stall. But I wanted to make sure we are both on the same page before I make my move so there is no misunderstanding.

Yeah, but there's a difference between a flat, immediate 9TG versus a complex pay-day-loan repayment scheme - I thought you were offering more because of the inconvenience Been a long time since IH made the 9TG statement, too, I wouldn't say he has to "honor" suggestions from that long ago and can't renegotiate now if he likes.

[twelve]

twelve, on 07 May 2021 - 07:44 PM, said:

He said the cost was 9 trade goods. I trust IH to honor the deal. I'd be okay with him selling the pns even to you D'rek after I retake my homeworld. He could make a decent profit off them for sure. The whole purpose of the trade is for him to get his tgs and me tech and stall. But I wanted to make sure we are both on the same page before I make my move so there is no misunderstanding.

Well regardless of how IH interpreted the initial deal I'm fairly certain we are close enough to an agreement that I will go through with the first part of it and we can work out the rest before his next turn. I'll go ahead and post my move.

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 07 May 2021 - 06:57 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 07 May 2021 - 04:19 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 07 May 2021 - 02:17 PM, said:

I'm listening. My thoughts are a bit haphazard here so bear with me.

Agenda; Vortex, Mallice, Cormund, Leadership, Carrier, Tg's, Votes, Trade PN. Borders.


I wanted to discuss borders earlier in the game but you gave a nonchalant reply that was a bit wishy washy. So let us establish them now.

You don't use Vortex on me.


Mallice was my intention and I can agree to that.


You get to have Cormund.


You pop leadership on your next turn. D'rek already taken Twelve's home system and I would prefer to activate my home system to build,


You can keep my carrier.


You give me 5 TG's and your trade PN. In return I will give you an agreed amount of votes on the upcoming agendas.

I don't think you would go for this deal, and given that it is not a nice way to deal with neighbours I doubt you would stick to it anyway.

Honestly, I think it'd be more fun to attack Lodor and it would push me towards the construction PO. Obviously it'll put a dent in your plans which is an unfortunate bonus.

Most seems agreeable, but playing Leadership is a sticking point. Not just because I don't think D'rek would go for it, but because there's no guarantee that you wouldn't then just attack me in Lodor anyway. Think about it, I agree to this, give you all my stuff, you take Mallice or build in your home system, I pop Leadership, and then you use Leadership to just attack me anyway.

No if this deal goes ahead and you keep your end of the bargain then I'd keep mine. From here on it would be what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine. If there would be further way to strengthen the bond then I am open to options.

I'd move into Mallice then build in my home system and more than likely pass.

What IH said earlier about me leaving a lot to trust. I know you have integrity and are good for your word.

As you say, I’m good for my word, and my first deal was with D’rek to not play Leadership yet, so how would you be able to trust my word if I break it with D’rek first? I’m willing to swap around, and give you my votes for an agenda rather than you giving me yours as some recompense for not playing Leadership earlier?