Malazan Empire: 2020 Malazan Re-read: Bonehunters - Malazan Empire

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2020 Malazan Re-read: Bonehunters Starts Monday, June 1st

#101 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:19 AM

View PostAptorian, on 20 June 2020 - 06:01 AM, said:

This passage from P. 722-731 where Tavore, T'amber and Kalam meet Laseen, Rel and Dom annoys me. All this unspoken, hidden meaning bullshit Erikson is caking on doesn't pass.

No Kalam can't go into the room and kill Rel and Dom because then he can't escort Tavore and T'amber. What? Erikson sets it up as though it's a binary choice. Just fucking murder them and give Laseen a salute and walk out. He also sets it up so even though Kalam takes over the Claw then he can't use them because they are infiltrated. Again that's not a binary situation. Order the claw officers to stand down and then he'll know the ones who want to intercept are traitors.

And what the hell is Laseen so afraid of? We know from Esslemonts books that Laseen is a Crimson Guard avowed killing machine. She could murder Rel and Dom any time she wants with her bare hands. If she's afraid of Rel's wards have Tayschren melt the piece of shit.

I just don't buy any of this.

And furthermore how inept are the claw that they can't take out Kalam and co? Just throw a bunch of sharpers and burners at them in the courtyard or on the rampart. Done. Fuck your Otataral sword.


Yes, yes and yes. And doesn't Kalam even has QB in the hole at that point as he's not been hurled at the Throne yet?

Laseen could just raise her arms and stick a bolt into each of them at the same time if she wanted. As it is, she's lost the claw, her armies and her choices, so she's pretty much dead from the moment Kalam leaves. You'd think she'd have tried harder to convince him.

Is it possible she knows their plan to leave, and knows the infiltrated claw wont be enough? I'm hoping there's an angle I'm missing which explains it better.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 20 June 2020 - 11:21 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#102 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:36 AM

Yes. Very frustrating.

Just finished the book. My opinion of Bonehunters is the same after a reread. It's not a bad book, it has some great passages and real what the fuck moments. But this feeling of frustration and loss that Erikson's characters experiences, echoes through the reading experience.

Reading about Yghatan and Malaz City does not feel satisfying because so much of the death and fighting is senseless, dishonourable and just plain unnecessary if the right characters interceded but they don't, and as a reader I'm not convinced this is the logic of the universe, the lord's push, and not just the author creating hopeless scenarios without probable cause.

I will say though that the set-up of pawns on a board being lined up for the gods war in this book is great. Unfortunately as far as I remember things sort of turn to shit after Reaper's Gale.
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#103 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 01:02 PM

I finished too.

I has completely forgotten the second half of this book. I think that maybe for good reason... feels very much set up for down the line and the actions of characters feel constrained. I wonder if this was how it was role played between the two of them?
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#104 User is offline   Stalker 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 03:04 PM

Iím a bit behind in my reread. About 40% according to my kindle. Just finished the YíGhatan sequence and got to the reunion of Quick, Kalam, Fiddler, and Apsalar. Iíve been enjoying it.

Gotta day that every time I read a Karsa section, I am more and more excited for the upcoming Toblakai trilogy. He hasnít had a lot of time so far in this book, but itís all quality.
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#105 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 03:19 PM

Don't get your hopes up. If I recall correctly, Karsa Orlong won't appear in The God is not Willing. Which quite frankly makes me incredulous every time I think on it.
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#106 User is offline   Stalker 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:07 PM

Yeah, I remember seeing that too. Certainly an interesting choice though and hopefully it works. I wonder if the focus will be primarily on the Teblor tribes instead.
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#107 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 06:32 PM

It might work well if it shows the state of the Teblor as we know Karsa left them. It will make his return all the more epic.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#108 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 21 June 2020 - 08:28 PM

I've been griping about that for years.

Laseen is not competent in her role, the way the empire is sliding into shit is pure incompetence.

I'm lagging a bit, just boarding the ships now
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#109 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 04 July 2020 - 10:24 PM

Do we know what race the 12th Nameless One ("...reaching out a slim, rust-red, scaled hand that was anything but human.") is? I'm thinking an Eleint-spawn.

EDIT: oh, nevermind, it's Spite.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 04 July 2020 - 10:25 PM

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#110 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 01:25 AM

Telorast and Curdle are severely underrated when it comes to comedic duos in Malazan. They might be more amusing than Tehol and Bugg.
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#111 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 05 July 2020 - 04:35 AM

They're great but upon a re-read also sinister and quite scary.
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#112 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 03:13 AM

What's the deal with the robots in the stomach of the K'Chain that Karsa kills at Ugarat? Do we ever find out more about them?
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#113 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 09 July 2020 - 06:27 AM

View PostWhisperzzzzzzz, on 09 July 2020 - 03:13 AM, said:

What's the deal with the robots in the stomach of the K'Chain that Karsa kills at Ugarat? Do we ever find out more about them?


Not that I remember. I think they just add to the growing evidence that the K'chain weren't all dumb sword wielding dinosaurs, but were actually far more advanced tech wise than anyone realises.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#114 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 02 August 2020 - 03:51 AM

Dujek's death gets me every time ó the distance of it from the reader magnifies the impact. Off-screen, without a word or thought from him in several books. The greatest general laid low by plague.
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#115 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 07:01 PM

I consider this one to be the point where the main series peaked, and all subsequent books brought diminishing returns in terms of narrative.

The Bonehunters has however left me with one burning question. What happened to Felisin younger? She is left by the Seven to be worshipped as Sha'ik Reborn in this weird cult made up of cripples and diseased people where she spends her time drinking, eating and having sex, and her story is never picked up again for the rest of the series. It's one of many stories that are left unfinished which is one of my biggest criticisms of the series overall. Maybe her story will be revisited in the upcoming Witness Trilogy, considering the rapport Felisin younger had with Karsa, but I'm not holding my breath.
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#116 User is online   worry 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 07:21 PM

Sounds like a happy ending.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#117 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 07:55 PM

But my problem is that I didn't feel like her story ended, it was merely paused and seemingly forgotten.
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#118 User is online   worry 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 09:07 PM

That's the spirit! Nobody's story ever really ends, it just pauses. Then we can use our hearts and imaginations to keep that story going in our own ways. I want to thank you for this reminder to keep this open and affirming perspective on things, and not get too bogged down.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#119 User is offline   ContrarianMalazanReader 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 10:07 PM

I don't like this narrative sleight of hand where Erikson invested quite a bit of time in Felisin younger between HoC and TBH, giving us the impression that her story was leading somewhere particularly with the Seven going through the all the trouble of snatching her away from Cutter's hands and making her Sha'ik Reborn, implying this was going to have greater consequences, only to completely discard the story and never bring it up again makes me feel like Erikson wasted my time as a reader.
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#120 User is online   worry 

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Posted 24 September 2021 - 11:05 PM

Please, let's not go negative at this time. There's so much of that already in this world.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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