[Kilava]

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 04:51 PM, said:

Tennes, on 22 May 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

One thing I want to is a closer look at Kilava's D3 case. It was long af and Kilava themselves admitted it was bonkers so I didn't pay that much attention to it but they did read Kalse right so maybe there's more to it.

Don't hold your hopes high

ouch, man

but really, and more importantly, conspiracy theories <<< player interaction, and I spent several hours reading those individuals I listed, making observations, and tracking notes to the point of post #'s. don't vote based on how you spell Thyrllan but you can't dismiss what other people said just because I quoted it in a post. perhaps we SHOULD hold our hopes high that some tiny bit of information could be gleaned from casework and town play. being dismissive only helps scum dude. bad form

[Barghast]

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 04:51 PM, said:

Tennes, on 22 May 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

One thing I want to is a closer look at Kilava's D3 case. It was long af and Kilava themselves admitted it was bonkers so I didn't pay that much attention to it but they did read Kalse right so maybe there's more to it.

Don't hold your hopes high

ouch, man

but really, and more importantly, conspiracy theories <<< player interaction, and I spent several hours reading those individuals I listed, making observations, and tracking notes to the point of post #'s. don't vote based on how you spell Thyrllan but you can't dismiss what other people said just because I quoted it in a post. perhaps we SHOULD hold our hopes high that some tiny bit of information could be gleaned from casework and town play. being dismissive only helps scum dude. bad form

I asked you about what I deemed the biggest inconsistencies of your case right after you posted it and you never even replied

And you yourself said the case is laughable or smth like that even before you posted it

And your rarely being here at all doesn't particularly help town either

"bad form" hah

[Tennes]

@Barghast

tbh I was mostly being cheeky with my remark about Gait's conclusion. They flung some shit at me, I debunked it, so they went back to look for something that will stick better and eventually found it. You can do that with every player if you trawl through the thread with singular focus. I see an OMGUS. Whether you choose to interpret it as bad faith or genuine is up to you.

Similarly for my D2 discussion with Gait. They claimed they were not pushing derail narrative and were actually doing the opposite. I don't think this is how their posts from D1 and early D2 read at all but this isn't as clear-cut as the D3 falsehoods. There's space for interpretation. Everyone can go back and decide on their own.


Now, I'm doing my own re-read and here's an interesting tidbit. You'll all be relieved to hear it's not about Gait this time

D2 voting situation.
Venesara with 3 votes was the first viable lynch candidate. Then after Barghast and Gait voted, Thyr was at 4.
The moment it starts looking like Thyr train is gaining momentum, Osseric appears and puts it at 4-4 with their vote on Ven.

That was their vote:

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 May 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

also, fuck, whoops. oh well

Venesara, on 14 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

Then who do you find scummy?

Well, I had an eye on Merrid, which was dumb apparently.

I was thinking about your post from the 1st page, but I don't believe anybody else was concerned, so I'm not hanging on to that one much

Nobody really sticking out

not if you are the scum...jeez

dawg l2multiquote. stop peddling your post padding garbage just get it THE HELL OUT OF HERE

also nice distancing keep repeating how little you had to do with merrid and how dumb you were to even think it oh lordy how shall you survive your own stupidity except by posting about it !! i'm sure you did have your little eye on merrid

vote venesara

This post sticks out the most to me, and then there is the string of Thyrllan posts that are nothing short of boosting their post count. I could go with either.

vote Venesara

Around to switch votes to Thyrllan as well.

No one knows which 'this post' they meant and when called out about it by multiple people, they just scurried away.
In hindsight, it looks like Osseric was planning to put breaks on the Thyr train that started taking off. They just came up with a whatever easy excuse and went back into hiding when things started heating up.

[Kilava]

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

OK, lots to digest. I've gotta get back to e-work but that's my catchup and contribution.

Tennes lost some of his scumminess when I finished the re-read. There were some questionable things I brought up, but I don't think Fanderay ever did his "re-read" so for now

Vote Fanderay

interesting comment from Thyr, has this been discussed? also on day 1 ara was the first to vote tennes... over a week later IRL apparently aranatha is still letting Thyr's vote direct their play ?? what?

Aranatha, on 21 May 2020 - 11:01 AM, said:

Another reason I'm not voting Gait is because Fanderay might be scum, based off of Thyr's vote earlier, so I'm not gonna go with anything they vote on unless they get way more active and I can be less suspicious of that fact.

yeah that's weird, I would love to see some reasoning based on a vote that didn't happen on page 5 or whatever.

and the kicker...

Kalse, on 13 May 2020 - 08:26 AM, said:

Ruse, on 13 May 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:

Can someone tell me why we are assuming there is a symp? I don't see anything in the first few posts about the killers' organization.

In terms of votes, I have read up on the thread and I am not convinced that it would be a good idea to leave both Aranatha and Tennes alive for tomorrow. If they both survive, we are likely going to have a re-production of this exact spat. It would give us no additional information and we would not be better off in making a choice between them tomorrow.

Therefore, I am in favor of lynching either of the two today. As there is already one vote on Tennes, I will live mine on there as well until tomorrow.

I hope to get a chance to check the thread and change my vote if needed tomorrow.

Vote Tennes

That's a strange summary of the events, why these two in particular?

There has been quite a discussion indeed recently between Aranatha, Tennes, Skintick and Shelthata, with small contributions from others. Plus, I found only 1 post from Tennes responding explicitly to something Aranatha said.

kalse does a hard deflect from the tennes vote and the aranatha/tennes pairing, and it works.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 04:01 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Thing is we just didn't have the number of online players to get a lynch, there was only 6 of us, which means if we wanted to lynch one of those, we needed 2 additional votes, and there were only a few votes placed by players who were not online

Also the eod was in the morning for NA players, as opposed to I think all the previous eods being later

Also, every living player who can be considered active was among the 6 players, the rest depends on low posters and in their case it's hard to tell the reason for their absence because they're... absent all the time

And the two players who almost always showed up before eod to help lynching the likeliest lynch were Ruse and Prazec

So I'm not saying there wasn't resistance, but there are quite a few circumstances which make it hard to tell, particularly half the pople alive being complete lowposters

I fully get it yea.., I was there, I was well aware of the lack of bodies available at the time. And how it was a panic because of it.

Cant help thinking that it doesnt mean that the people that came on later to help simply weren't biding their time either.
Also the the case on Tennes and Gait was very early on day 3 and it stagnated for two days till the mad rush.

Having said that, Im happy with my vote...I want to see what people think of the day yesterday. As most of it was about Gait vs Tennes.

I'm definitely not talking you out of it

The Gait vs Tennes thing goes back to D2, where Gait repeatedly throws suspicion at Thyr saying it looks like the D1 train on him looks like it was derailed, while Tennes calls him out for never looking at the people who derailed and Gait responds that he's not really pushing the derailment narrative (which was untrue, but I also kinda get that Gait was saying it didn't necessarily have to be a full on derailment and I was in a similar bag as he was)

Or we can go even further back to when Kalse joke voted Gait for being signalled by Okral, Gait goes on to correct them he's not singalling, which completely missed the point, then Gait has to explain himself in 3 posts and that's when Tennes got his hard on first

Thing to take into consideration here, Gait already had scrambling tendencies when voted by Kalse for example, which if they were partners would have been uncalled for

I've said before Gait has a laid back approach, and he apparently does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened, but I'm not convinced it's that scummy, I'd expect if he was scum he'd be more guarded about losing his cool like that every time.

That aside Tennes is spot on in most of the inconsistencies he calls out about Gait, but that doesn't make him right, problem I have with him is all the arguments regarding their scumminess boil down to wifom, which is a good thing for scum as then there aren't many real arguments to be said against you. So in this light I can easily imagine Tennes to have played either a scum or town game so far, and he remains on the reasonable side of things, but then his initial D3 case against Gait I view as weak, and the rest is all about Gait scrambling (which makes me view Gait in a similar light in which I saw Rikkter). None of the cases on Tennes convince me either, but that's again because all the argumetns I deem most indicative are wifom.

Gait also reads as if a little loose with his wordings, and as someone who relies on gut more than he lets show (don't we all) and kinda tries to make his arguments fit his gut vision knowing the arguments are not perfect, hence lacking confidence in the arguments themselves. Which also could be put in a way to make it look much scummier.

I honestly couldn't have summed it up better myself.

this is almost too on the nose. in other comments here you're assuming that gait is scum and that you have held that position for al ong time, justifyably so, but then here when discussing gait vs. tennes you....forgot to discuss tennes? oh, except the cases on him don't convince you...what is the point of these long posts about gait vs. tennes if you don't even think the tennes case is worth looking at?

something is off, this suspicious perfect agreement bullshit is suspicious

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here...

I still want you to explain your meaning here @kilava

[Barghast]

Tennes, on 22 May 2020 - 07:01 PM, said:

D2 voting situation.
Venesara with 3 votes was the first viable lynch candidate. Then after Barghast and Gait voted, Thyr was at 4.
The moment it starts looking like Thyr train is gaining momentum, Osseric appears and puts it at 4-4 with their vote on Ven.

...

No one knows which 'this post' they meant and when called out about it by multiple people, they just scurried away.
In hindsight, it looks like Osseric was planning to put breaks on the Thyr train that started taking off. They just came up with a whatever easy excuse and went back into hiding when things started heating up.

Also notable there was at least some semblance of him trying to post some thoughts (thoughts because he does put actual thoughts into each and every of his posts, even if they're one liners, save for excuses for his absence, not even a single usual D1 bs post) before finding out he can get away with a full modkill avoidance mode

[Kilava]

sigh, fine. for the purpose of this reply, "you" == barg == shelly, because apparently there is nothing in this summary they disagree about. great.

so..the little summary is about gait, not tennes. very odd. i underlined only to show the imbalance of how often you discuss gait instead of tennes. each time you mention tennes it's either positive or uncertain. when you mention gait your opinion is (apparently) both obvious and not up for discussion. very cleverly (or ignorantly) written to focus on how you feel about gait and what they did because it needs to be interpreted, but SOMEHOW you absolutely know what tennes's actions mean and you are confident he is scum and your reasoning is....that gait is not scummy ENOUGH and ...wifom. a sad day.

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 04:01 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Thing is we just didn't have the number of online players to get a lynch, there was only 6 of us, which means if we wanted to lynch one of those, we needed 2 additional votes, and there were only a few votes placed by players who were not online

Also the eod was in the morning for NA players, as opposed to I think all the previous eods being later

Also, every living player who can be considered active was among the 6 players, the rest depends on low posters and in their case it's hard to tell the reason for their absence because they're... absent all the time

And the two players who almost always showed up before eod to help lynching the likeliest lynch were Ruse and Prazec

So I'm not saying there wasn't resistance, but there are quite a few circumstances which make it hard to tell, particularly half the pople alive being complete lowposters

I fully get it yea.., I was there, I was well aware of the lack of bodies available at the time. And how it was a panic because of it.

Cant help thinking that it doesnt mean that the people that came on later to help simply weren't biding their time either.
Also the the case on Tennes and Gait was very early on day 3 and it stagnated for two days till the mad rush.

Having said that, Im happy with my vote...I want to see what people think of the day yesterday. As most of it was about Gait vs Tennes.

I'm definitely not talking you out of it

The Gait vs Tennes thing goes back to D2, where Gait repeatedly throws suspicion at Thyr saying it looks like the D1 train on him looks like it was derailed, while Tennes calls him out for never looking at the people who derailed and Gait responds that he's not really pushing the derailment narrative (which was untrue, but I also kinda get that Gait was saying it didn't necessarily have to be a full on derailment and I was in a similar bag as he was)

on d2 Gait throws suspicion on scum - Thyr - SCUM - and Tennes calls bullshit. Gait was right, Tennes was wrong - how does this help your case?

Or we can go even further back to when Kalse joke voted Gait for being signalled by Okral, Gait goes on to correct them he's not singalling, which completely missed the point, then Gait has to explain himself in 3 posts and that's when Tennes got his hard on first

this is about just gait....

Thing to take into consideration here, Gait already had scrambling tendencies when voted by Kalse for example, which if they were partners would have been uncalled for

more Gait

I've said before Gait has a laid back approach, and he apparently does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened, but I'm not convinced it's that scummy, I'd expect if he was scum he'd be more guarded about losing his cool like that every time.

all Gait all the time

That aside Tennes is spot on in most of the inconsistencies he calls out about Gait, but that doesn't make him right, problem I have with him is all the arguments regarding their scumminess boil down to wifom, which is a good thing for scum as then there aren't many real arguments to be said against you. So in this light I can easily imagine Tennes to have played either a scum or town game so far, and he remains on the reasonable side of things, but then his initial D3 case against Gait I view as weak, and the rest is all about Gait scrambling (which makes me view Gait in a similar light in which I saw Rikkter). None of the cases on Tennes convince me either, but that's again because all the argumetns I deem most indicative are wifom.

"Gait's inconsistent and Tennes picks up on it, but who knows and it doesn't matter because a few people made wifom cases against Tennes that don't convince me he is scum" and yet....your vote stays on Tennes, who is "spot on" and "remains on the reasonable side of things" while gait is "scrambling" but "does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened".

it makes zero sense.

Gait also reads as if a little loose with his wordings, and as someone who relies on gut more than he lets show (don't we all) and kinda tries to make his arguments fit his gut vision knowing the arguments are not perfect, hence lacking confidence in the arguments themselves. Which also could be put in a way to make it look much scummier.

just...gait again. more gait.

I honestly couldn't have summed it up better myself.

you couldn't have said it better?! you have nothing to add or subtract, you just agree 100% that the only thing making tennes scummy is WIFOM - not a case, not a train, but UNUSABLE logic - and because gait has played a bad town game, we should give him a pass? what the fuck

this is almost too on the nose. in other comments here you're assuming that gait is scum and that you have held that position for al ong time, justifyably so, but then here when discussing gait vs. tennes you....forgot to discuss tennes? oh, except the cases on him don't convince you...what is the point of these long posts about gait vs. tennes if you don't even think the tennes case is worth looking at?

something is off, this suspicious perfect agreement bullshit is suspicious

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here...

I still want you to explain your meaning here @kilava

[Tennes]

That observation made me go and have a look at Osseric in isolation. And it's... interesting.

On D2, Osseric low-key calls out Kilava for the Ven vote and low-key supports Gait in looking into the Thyr derailment theory. But when it comes to vote, Osseric will do a complete reversal of this position. They call the Thyr train - that just started gaining momentum as I mentioned in the previous post - too easy to board and instead jump on Ven with the flimsiest reasoning.

Now the only real discussion Osseric engages in is when Shel and me argue hammering Thyr without waiting for them to show up wasn't necessary. Osseric pushes back hard against this.

Against Shel:

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 11:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

Not to mention, Sheltatha really wanted to wait for Thyrllan to come back and defend himself before the hammer. Doesn't look very good in hindsight. Were they planning on making some sort of reveal claim? Hmm.

Its standard practice, Noob.

Not always.

In as many games as have been played, lynching scum early happens less often than not. Our main focus should revolve around every single interaction Thyrllan had, those who did and didn't vote, when, and why.

We,for once, have some good information to go on. You wanting to wait to hear from someone who turned up scum doesn't look good. It's a fact in any setting of any game. We would be stupid not to examine it further.

Thyrllan received some early votes. We usually wait longer in the day to vote, after the most information is gleaned. I think this is something to look at from all angles and tread carefully with the findings.

Against me:

Osseric, on 16 May 2020 - 01:37 AM, said:

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 11:01 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

Not to mention, Sheltatha really wanted to wait for Thyrllan to come back and defend himself before the hammer. Doesn't look very good in hindsight. Were they planning on making some sort of reveal claim? Hmm.

Its standard practice, Noob.

Not always.

In as many games as have been played, lynching scum early happens less often than not. Our main focus should revolve around every single interaction Thyrllan had, those who did and didn't vote, when, and why.

We,for once, have some good information to go on. You wanting to wait to hear from someone who turned up scum doesn't look good. It's a fact in any setting of any game. We would be stupid not to examine it further.

Thyrllan received some early votes. We usually wait longer in the day to vote, after the most information is gleaned. I think this is something to look at from all angles and tread carefully with the findings.

This is only true because Thyr flipped scum. Had they flipped town, this kind of hammer would have been branded as way suspicious.
Only scum have the foresight to know how the lynch will turn out in advance.

You're stating the obvious, and missing the point.

Aaaaand that's pretty much it. No more engagement other than 'don't modkill me' or 'catching up' posts from Osseric since then. So I went to look at their votes to see if I can glean some from that... except their isn't any lol.

Path-Shaper, on 13 May 2020 - 09:18 PM, said:

It is day 1. 0 hours remaining.

21 people left alive; Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Merrid, Okaros, Okral Lom, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Skintick, Tennes, Thyr, Venesara. 11 votes to lynch.

11 votes Okral Lom; Rikkter, Skintick, Kalse, Gait, Tennes, Fanderay, Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec Goul, Merrid
1 vote Osseric; Hanas
1 vote Merrid; Okral Lom
1 vote Thyrllan; Barghast

Players not voted; Gamelon, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Thyr, Venesara.

Path-Shaper, on 15 May 2020 - 09:13 PM, said:

It is day 2. About 0 hours remaining.

19 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Skintick, Tennes, Thyr, Venesara.


2 votes Venesara:Okaros, Osseric
10 votes Thyrllan; Skintick, Jalan, Barghast, Gait, Tennes, Kilava, Kalse, Ruse, Aranatha, Prazec Goul
1 vote Fanderay; Thyrllan
2 votes Hanas; Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore

Players not voted; Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Prazec Goul, Venesara.

Thyrllan has been lynched. He was Peanutbutta and Scum

Path-Shaper, on 19 May 2020 - 11:07 AM, said:

It is day 3.

17 people left alive. Aranatha, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

9 votes Rikkter; Fanderay, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Hanas, Sheltatha Lore, Jalan, Okaros, Barghast, Aranatha
2 vote Ruse; Tennes, Gait
1 votes Tennes; Rikkter,
1 vote Venesara; Kalse

Players not voted; Gamelon, Kilava, Osseric, Venesara.

Rikkter was lynched. They were Gust Hubb and RI

Path-Shaper, on 21 May 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:

It is day 3. 0 minutes remaining remaining.

13 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Hanas, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

7 to lynch.

1 vote Gait; Fanderay
2 votes Tennes; Ruse, Aranatha
7 votes Prazec; Barghast, Tennes, Sheltatha Lore, Okaros, Gait, Hanas, Venesara

Players not voted; Kilava, Osseric, Prazec Goul,


Prazec Goul is lynched. She was Lady Bliss and RI.

Osseric never bothered to vote except that one time when they turned up at the perfect time to slow down a scum lynch train as it was gaining traction.

[Tennes]

Just reposting this because it's buried 15 pages back and it's a spot-on read of Osseric from even before Thyr flipped scum.
Osseric has been laying as low as possible without a modkill since.

Kilava, on 15 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

aah.... was copy pasta and clicked reply...

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:14 PM, said:

Sheltatha is spreading his focus out very thin. To me it comes across as wanting to appear like they're looking at who's scum, but adding different players to their mix to broaden their chances.

I like the Hanas train except for Sheltatha being on it. The Thyrllan train would be easy to jump on. There's little friction to doing so.

Being the filthy low poster, I need to look at the Venesara train in more detail, but I would happily vote for Sheltatha if there weren't two fundamental trains in process.

Thyrllan's train is the easiest to board.

I have to do the most with my time, which is to see which lynch will shed the most light on the game. Which player has had the most connections.

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

This post sticks out the most to me, and then there is the string of Thyrllan posts that are nothing short of boosting their post count. I could go with either.

vote Venesara

Around to switch votes to Thyrllan as well.

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

It's what I see. You don't have a train on you, and I'm not going to make a new one. Not right now.

this reads so weird to me, why the obsession with being on the "right" train, as if there were such a thing? he mentions hanas, thyr, and ven....then said he would vote shelly if not for the TWO trains going...OK....

thyr's train is easiest? you can go with either? you're around to switch? you will only vote for trains not start new ones?

@ this point ven is @ 3 and thyr is @ 4 and osseric drops a vote on ven to tie the votes and make either train viable now, it took a vote from tennes to put thyr ahead. why not just vote thyr if you think it is the best option, and why put your vote elsewhere? it looks like you are trying to push any opportunity to get ven lynched and hiding behind a proposed thyr vote if you decide to, I guess...yeah, I don't like it, this doesn't make sense. also those posts are train wrecks of garbage (see what I did there) but crappy play isn't the main problem

need to look at osseric tomorrow and hopefully ven / hanas show up. I was here to switch if needed anyway, knowing that if I pulled my vote from ven everything unbalances and thyr is the only target. it seems like osseric cares more about thyr not getting lynched than lynching ven, and I don't like that either, when thyr was ahead 3/4.

remove vote

vote thyrllan

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

sigh, fine. for the purpose of this reply, "you" == barg == shelly, because apparently there is nothing in this summary they disagree about. great.

so..the little summary is about gait, not tennes. very odd. i underlined only to show the imbalance of how often you discuss gait instead of tennes. each time you mention tennes it's either positive or uncertain. when you mention gait your opinion is (apparently) both obvious and not up for discussion. very cleverly (or ignorantly) written to focus on how you feel about gait and what they did because it needs to be interpreted, but SOMEHOW you absolutely know what tennes's actions mean and you are confident he is scum and your reasoning is....that gait is not scummy ENOUGH and ...wifom. a sad day.

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 04:01 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Thing is we just didn't have the number of online players to get a lynch, there was only 6 of us, which means if we wanted to lynch one of those, we needed 2 additional votes, and there were only a few votes placed by players who were not online

Also the eod was in the morning for NA players, as opposed to I think all the previous eods being later

Also, every living player who can be considered active was among the 6 players, the rest depends on low posters and in their case it's hard to tell the reason for their absence because they're... absent all the time

And the two players who almost always showed up before eod to help lynching the likeliest lynch were Ruse and Prazec

So I'm not saying there wasn't resistance, but there are quite a few circumstances which make it hard to tell, particularly half the pople alive being complete lowposters

I fully get it yea.., I was there, I was well aware of the lack of bodies available at the time. And how it was a panic because of it.

Cant help thinking that it doesnt mean that the people that came on later to help simply weren't biding their time either.
Also the the case on Tennes and Gait was very early on day 3 and it stagnated for two days till the mad rush.

Having said that, Im happy with my vote...I want to see what people think of the day yesterday. As most of it was about Gait vs Tennes.

I'm definitely not talking you out of it

The Gait vs Tennes thing goes back to D2, where Gait repeatedly throws suspicion at Thyr saying it looks like the D1 train on him looks like it was derailed, while Tennes calls him out for never looking at the people who derailed and Gait responds that he's not really pushing the derailment narrative (which was untrue, but I also kinda get that Gait was saying it didn't necessarily have to be a full on derailment and I was in a similar bag as he was)

on d2 Gait throws suspicion on scum - Thyr - SCUM - and Tennes calls bullshit. Gait was right, Tennes was wrong - how does this help your case?

Or we can go even further back to when Kalse joke voted Gait for being signalled by Okral, Gait goes on to correct them he's not singalling, which completely missed the point, then Gait has to explain himself in 3 posts and that's when Tennes got his hard on first

this is about just gait....

Thing to take into consideration here, Gait already had scrambling tendencies when voted by Kalse for example, which if they were partners would have been uncalled for

more Gait

I've said before Gait has a laid back approach, and he apparently does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened, but I'm not convinced it's that scummy, I'd expect if he was scum he'd be more guarded about losing his cool like that every time.

all Gait all the time

That aside Tennes is spot on in most of the inconsistencies he calls out about Gait, but that doesn't make him right, problem I have with him is all the arguments regarding their scumminess boil down to wifom, which is a good thing for scum as then there aren't many real arguments to be said against you. So in this light I can easily imagine Tennes to have played either a scum or town game so far, and he remains on the reasonable side of things, but then his initial D3 case against Gait I view as weak, and the rest is all about Gait scrambling (which makes me view Gait in a similar light in which I saw Rikkter). None of the cases on Tennes convince me either, but that's again because all the argumetns I deem most indicative are wifom.

"Gait's inconsistent and Tennes picks up on it, but who knows and it doesn't matter because a few people made wifom cases against Tennes that don't convince me he is scum" and yet....your vote stays on Tennes, who is "spot on" and "remains on the reasonable side of things" while gait is "scrambling" but "does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened".

it makes zero sense.

Gait also reads as if a little loose with his wordings, and as someone who relies on gut more than he lets show (don't we all) and kinda tries to make his arguments fit his gut vision knowing the arguments are not perfect, hence lacking confidence in the arguments themselves. Which also could be put in a way to make it look much scummier.

just...gait again. more gait.

I honestly couldn't have summed it up better myself.

you couldn't have said it better?! you have nothing to add or subtract, you just agree 100% that the only thing making tennes scummy is WIFOM - not a case, not a train, but UNUSABLE logic - and because gait has played a bad town game, we should give him a pass? what the fuck

this is almost too on the nose. in other comments here you're assuming that gait is scum and that you have held that position for al ong time, justifyably so, but then here when discussing gait vs. tennes you....forgot to discuss tennes? oh, except the cases on him don't convince you...what is the point of these long posts about gait vs. tennes if you don't even think the tennes case is worth looking at?

something is off, this suspicious perfect agreement bullshit is suspicious

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here...

I still want you to explain your meaning here @kilava

I have to say... I find this all very...strange.

[Barghast]

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

sigh, fine. for the purpose of this reply, "you" == barg == shelly, because apparently there is nothing in this summary they disagree about. great.

so..the little summary is about gait, not tennes. very odd. i underlined only to show the imbalance of how often you discuss gait instead of tennes. each time you mention tennes it's either positive or uncertain. when you mention gait your opinion is (apparently) both obvious and not up for discussion. very cleverly (or ignorantly) written to focus on how you feel about gait and what they did because it needs to be interpreted, but SOMEHOW you absolutely know what tennes's actions mean and you are confident he is scum and your reasoning is....that gait is not scummy ENOUGH and ...wifom. a sad day.

Spoiler

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 07:05 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 04:01 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 01:58 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Thing is we just didn't have the number of online players to get a lynch, there was only 6 of us, which means if we wanted to lynch one of those, we needed 2 additional votes, and there were only a few votes placed by players who were not online

Also the eod was in the morning for NA players, as opposed to I think all the previous eods being later

Also, every living player who can be considered active was among the 6 players, the rest depends on low posters and in their case it's hard to tell the reason for their absence because they're... absent all the time

And the two players who almost always showed up before eod to help lynching the likeliest lynch were Ruse and Prazec

So I'm not saying there wasn't resistance, but there are quite a few circumstances which make it hard to tell, particularly half the pople alive being complete lowposters

I fully get it yea.., I was there, I was well aware of the lack of bodies available at the time. And how it was a panic because of it.

Cant help thinking that it doesnt mean that the people that came on later to help simply weren't biding their time either.
Also the the case on Tennes and Gait was very early on day 3 and it stagnated for two days till the mad rush.

Having said that, Im happy with my vote...I want to see what people think of the day yesterday. As most of it was about Gait vs Tennes.

I'm definitely not talking you out of it

The Gait vs Tennes thing goes back to D2, where Gait repeatedly throws suspicion at Thyr saying it looks like the D1 train on him looks like it was derailed, while Tennes calls him out for never looking at the people who derailed and Gait responds that he's not really pushing the derailment narrative (which was untrue, but I also kinda get that Gait was saying it didn't necessarily have to be a full on derailment and I was in a similar bag as he was)

on d2 Gait throws suspicion on scum - Thyr - SCUM - and Tennes calls bullshit. Gait was right, Tennes was wrong - how does this help your case?


Or we can go even further back to when Kalse joke voted Gait for being signalled by Okral, Gait goes on to correct them he's not singalling, which completely missed the point, then Gait has to explain himself in 3 posts and that's when Tennes got his hard on first

this is about just gait....

Thing to take into consideration here, Gait already had scrambling tendencies when voted by Kalse for example, which if they were partners would have been uncalled for

more Gait

I've said before Gait has a laid back approach, and he apparently does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened, but I'm not convinced it's that scummy, I'd expect if he was scum he'd be more guarded about losing his cool like that every time.

all Gait all the time

That aside Tennes is spot on in most of the inconsistencies he calls out about Gait, but that doesn't make him right, problem I have with him is all the arguments regarding their scumminess boil down to wifom, which is a good thing for scum as then there aren't many real arguments to be said against you. So in this light I can easily imagine Tennes to have played either a scum or town game so far, and he remains on the reasonable side of things, but then his initial D3 case against Gait I view as weak, and the rest is all about Gait scrambling (which makes me view Gait in a similar light in which I saw Rikkter). None of the cases on Tennes convince me either, but that's again because all the argumetns I deem most indicative are wifom.

"Gait's inconsistent and Tennes picks up on it, but who knows and it doesn't matter because a few people made wifom cases against Tennes that don't convince me he is scum" and yet....your vote stays on Tennes, who is "spot on" and "remains on the reasonable side of things" while gait is "scrambling" but "does get nervous whenever his safe zone is threatened".

it makes zero sense.

Gait also reads as if a little loose with his wordings, and as someone who relies on gut more than he lets show (don't we all) and kinda tries to make his arguments fit his gut vision knowing the arguments are not perfect, hence lacking confidence in the arguments themselves. Which also could be put in a way to make it look much scummier.

just...gait again. more gait.

I honestly couldn't have summed it up better myself.

you couldn't have said it better?! you have nothing to add or subtract, you just agree 100% that the only thing making tennes scummy is WIFOM - not a case, not a train, but UNUSABLE logic - and because gait has played a bad town game, we should give him a pass? what the fuck

this is almost too on the nose. in other comments here you're assuming that gait is scum and that you have held that position for al ong time, justifyably so, but then here when discussing gait vs. tennes you....forgot to discuss tennes? oh, except the cases on him don't convince you...what is the point of these long posts about gait vs. tennes if you don't even think the tennes case is worth looking at?

something is off, this suspicious perfect agreement bullshit is suspicious

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about here...

I still want you to explain your meaning here @kilava

Well I guess I'll leave Shel the honor of replying to this in full, if she chooses so

But yeah Tennes is clean, but he's obviously not one to show his scuminess in his posting style - I've said this before about him and Kalse both. It's their actions that are most telling.

Re your comments on Tennes' vote for Thyr: distancing. Repeating myself again but with 4 killers the distancing is bound to be more extreme than usual. If he was scum, I believe this is exactly the move he'd make. But that's wifom. And if you can find a good argument against him that is not wifom, please do, but I won't accept a lack of thereof as a good argument for his innocence.

[Aranatha]

I've thought a fair bit about the situation we're in, and there are several participants that I would like to look closely at, but it's harder with some because they're not really that active, and when they are, they're doing weird shit, but it's hard to pin point.
Trying to stay objective and not get caught up in a set narrative; looking back I do see a certain pattern that is interesting, and the more I look the more I realize that it needs to be scrutinized - and it's in line with what I've observed before. The fact that Tennes really switched trains the way he did as soon as he got his own train really made me suspicious. That paired with Shel flip flopping now after being called out on not looking at Tennes, it doesn't look very pretty at all. Distancing by voting and then backtracking while still keeping the vote on is weird af to me. This is how I read the situation anyway. In looking again, my opinion on the Tennes and Sheltatha connection is only getting stronger.

I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post this weekend - I'll set my sights to be present at least Sunday. With that in mind I'll vote now to give people a chance to build something during the weekend.

vote Tennes


For anyone that has time, I'd look more at Fanderay, although I know it's hard to find anything with someone that barely posted. Definitely not about the Thyr vote anymore. There are breadcrumbs, but I don't have the time to sort them out right now myself. With a bit of luck, I'll get back sooner.

[Sheltatha Lore]

What exactly is your problem with talk about gait?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Xpost- last post was follow up meant for Kilava

[Sheltatha Lore]

Aranatha, on 22 May 2020 - 08:23 PM, said:

I've thought a fair bit about the situation we're in, and there are several participants that I would like to look closely at, but it's harder with some because they're not really that active, and when they are, they're doing weird shit, but it's hard to pin point.
Trying to stay objective and not get caught up in a set narrative; looking back I do see a certain pattern that is interesting, and the more I look the more I realize that it needs to be scrutinized - and it's in line with what I've observed before. The fact that Tennes really switched trains the way he did as soon as he got his own train really made me suspicious. That paired with Shel flip flopping now after being called out on not looking at Tennes, it doesn't look very pretty at all. Distancing by voting and then backtracking while still keeping the vote on is weird af to me. This is how I read the situation anyway. In looking again, my opinion on the Tennes and Sheltatha connection is only getting stronger.

I'm not sure exactly how much I'll be able to post this weekend - I'll set my sights to be present at least Sunday. With that in mind I'll vote now to give people a chance to build something during the weekend.

vote Tennes


For anyone that has time, I'd look more at Fanderay, although I know it's hard to find anything with someone that barely posted. Definitely not about the Thyr vote anymore. There are breadcrumbs, but I don't have the time to sort them out right now myself. With a bit of luck, I'll get back sooner.

Your shit is highly amusing.
Would love to hear more.

[Kilava]

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 08:24 PM, said:

What exactly is your problem with talk about gait?

it's disguised as talk about "gait vs. tennes" and leads to "tennes is scum because of gait" which is dumb, false positive my man

[Sheltatha Lore]

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

Well I guess I'll leave Shel the honor of replying to this in full, if she chooses.

She?

Anyways...
Talk about passing the buck.

For now I’ll take a hard pass on that. Rather just not bother thanks.
Maybe when I’m bored and have had a few more whiskeys

[Kilava]

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

<snip>

I have to say... I find this all very...strange.

vs.

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

Kilava, on 22 May 2020 - 07:49 PM, said:

<snip>

Well I guess I'll leave Shel the honor of replying to this in full, if she chooses so

But yeah Tennes is clean, but he's obviously not one to show his scuminess in his posting style - I've said this before about him and Kalse both. It's their actions that are most telling.

Re your comments on Tennes' vote for Thyr: distancing. Repeating myself again but with 4 killers the distancing is bound to be more extreme than usual. If he was scum, I believe this is exactly the move he'd make. But that's wifom. And if you can find a good argument against him that is not wifom, please do, but I won't accept a lack of thereof as a good argument for his innocence.

thank god, I was really hoping this entire discussion was not driven by the looney tunes idea that if gait is awkward town, tennes is scum. there has been so much between gait/tennes/barg and also ara/shel and then people defending other people...I feel like I lost sight of the greater game while catching up and looking @ this

[Aranatha]

It says a lot, Shel, that all you can do when I call you out is to be rude.

[Kilava]

Sheltatha Lore, on 22 May 2020 - 08:40 PM, said:

Barghast, on 22 May 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

Well I guess I'll leave Shel the honor of replying to this in full, if she chooses.

She?

Anyways...
Talk about passing the buck.

For now I’ll take a hard pass on that. Rather just not bother thanks.
Maybe when I’m bored and have had a few more whiskeys

her?