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It is day 3. 4 hours 2 minutes remaining remaining.
13 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Hanas, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.
7 to lynch.
1 vote Gait; Tennes
2 votes Tennes; Gait, Ruse
1 vote Ruse; Hanas
1 vote Prazec; Barghast
Players not voted; Aranatha, Fanderay, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara.
Mafia 150 - Lockdown Hell
#901
Path-Shaper 
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:00 AM
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
#902
Aranatha
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:01 AM
Aranatha, on 21 May 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:
Gait, on 21 May 2020 - 07:07 AM, said:
Noteworthy 50/50 diversion from pressure on Thyr to pressure on Hanas.
Read that as you will.
Interesting find. Looks weird as distancing, seems more convincingly to point at Hanas being inno through that comment alone. Unless we're saying Thyr was planning that far ahead.
Sorry, I meant Kalse. Dammit. I guess scum look all the same to me after a while.
#903
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 08:54 AM
Here is something that I would like to note.
This is the moment kalse comes back and immediately swaps to Thyrllan.
At the time, it was 6 votes to Thyr... Tennes had just before jumped onto the Thyr train breaking the 4-4tie between Venesera and Thyr.
Kilava cam on just after then and solidified the Lynch and made it 6 on Thyr.
Obviously Kalse having realised Thyrs goose was cooked, wanted to desperately be on the Lynch train (knowing Thyr would CF scum)
It was turning out to be the only Lynch option and all hope of saving Thyr, by getting a Ven Lynch was done for (Kalse's derail attempt ).
Time for Plan B...
Fully agreed. I don't like any of the votes on on Vesara until now except mine (and that included yours
) So Imma switch before I leave for the night.
I would have preferred Hanas, but besides the strange timing of the first two votes, I can't say I disagree with anything that was said against Mr "How-do-you-do-fellow-average-town-people?"
remove vote
vote Thyrllan
Now... the floodgates open.
Three quick votes by:
I would bet my left nut that at least one other scum wanted to get that vote on Thyr as quickly as possible because they KNEW a CF of scum was going to come.
And in a last chance attempt to distance...voted.
I really think we should be looking at these three today as most likely scum candidates.
Aranatha was basically jerking himself off about being right to place his vote on Thyr.
Ruse having done next to nothing all game did his classic drive by.
Prazec DEFINITLY didn't to want to be left off the vote train and didnt want to risk not being on it, so ignored my call to wait and went "fuck it" "I got to get me on this lycnh train"
and voted before anyone else could.
Thats my two cents.
EDITE -typos and grammar
This is the moment kalse comes back and immediately swaps to Thyrllan.
At the time, it was 6 votes to Thyr... Tennes had just before jumped onto the Thyr train breaking the 4-4tie between Venesera and Thyr.
Kilava cam on just after then and solidified the Lynch and made it 6 on Thyr.
Obviously Kalse having realised Thyrs goose was cooked, wanted to desperately be on the Lynch train (knowing Thyr would CF scum)
It was turning out to be the only Lynch option and all hope of saving Thyr, by getting a Ven Lynch was done for (Kalse's derail attempt ).
Time for Plan B...
Kalse, on 15 May 2020 - 07:19 PM, said:
Kilava, on 15 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:
aah.... was copy pasta and clicked reply...
this reads so weird to me, why the obsession with being on the "right" train, as if there were such a thing? he mentions hanas, thyr, and ven....then said he would vote shelly if not for the TWO trains going...OK....
thyr's train is easiest? you can go with either? you're around to switch? you will only vote for trains not start new ones?
@ this point ven is @ 3 and thyr is @ 4 and osseric drops a vote on ven to tie the votes and make either train viable now, it took a vote from tennes to put thyr ahead. why not just vote thyr if you think it is the best option, and why put your vote elsewhere? it looks like you are trying to push any opportunity to get ven lynched and hiding behind a proposed thyr vote if you decide to, I guess...yeah, I don't like it, this doesn't make sense. also those posts are train wrecks of garbage (see what I did there) but crappy play isn't the main problem
need to look at osseric tomorrow and hopefully ven / hanas show up. I was here to switch if needed anyway, knowing that if I pulled my vote from ven everything unbalances and thyr is the only target. it seems like osseric cares more about thyr not getting lynched than lynching ven, and I don't like that either, when thyr was ahead 3/4.
remove vote
vote thyrllan
Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:14 PM, said:
Sheltatha is spreading his focus out very thin. To me it comes across as wanting to appear like they're looking at who's scum, but adding different players to their mix to broaden their chances.
I like the Hanas train except for Sheltatha being on it. The Thyrllan train would be easy to jump on. There's little friction to doing so.
Being the filthy low poster, I need to look at the Venesara train in more detail, but I would happily vote for Sheltatha if there weren't two fundamental trains in process.
Thyrllan's train is the easiest to board.
I have to do the most with my time, which is to see which lynch will shed the most light on the game. Which player has had the most connections.
I like the Hanas train except for Sheltatha being on it. The Thyrllan train would be easy to jump on. There's little friction to doing so.
Being the filthy low poster, I need to look at the Venesara train in more detail, but I would happily vote for Sheltatha if there weren't two fundamental trains in process.
Thyrllan's train is the easiest to board.
I have to do the most with my time, which is to see which lynch will shed the most light on the game. Which player has had the most connections.
Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:
This post sticks out the most to me, and then there is the string of Thyrllan posts that are nothing short of boosting their post count. I could go with either.
vote Venesara
Around to switch votes to Thyrllan as well.
vote Venesara
Around to switch votes to Thyrllan as well.
Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:
It's what I see. You don't have a train on you, and I'm not going to make a new one. Not right now.
this reads so weird to me, why the obsession with being on the "right" train, as if there were such a thing? he mentions hanas, thyr, and ven....then said he would vote shelly if not for the TWO trains going...OK....
thyr's train is easiest? you can go with either? you're around to switch? you will only vote for trains not start new ones?
@ this point ven is @ 3 and thyr is @ 4 and osseric drops a vote on ven to tie the votes and make either train viable now, it took a vote from tennes to put thyr ahead. why not just vote thyr if you think it is the best option, and why put your vote elsewhere? it looks like you are trying to push any opportunity to get ven lynched and hiding behind a proposed thyr vote if you decide to, I guess...yeah, I don't like it, this doesn't make sense. also those posts are train wrecks of garbage (see what I did there) but crappy play isn't the main problem
need to look at osseric tomorrow and hopefully ven / hanas show up. I was here to switch if needed anyway, knowing that if I pulled my vote from ven everything unbalances and thyr is the only target. it seems like osseric cares more about thyr not getting lynched than lynching ven, and I don't like that either, when thyr was ahead 3/4.
remove vote
vote thyrllan
Fully agreed. I don't like any of the votes on on Vesara until now except mine (and that included yours
) So Imma switch before I leave for the night.I would have preferred Hanas, but besides the strange timing of the first two votes, I can't say I disagree with anything that was said against Mr "How-do-you-do-fellow-average-town-people?"
remove vote
vote Thyrllan
Now... the floodgates open.
Three quick votes by:
Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:
Vote Thyrllan
As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.
As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:
There's some really interesting divides going on about who is scummy or not, and that should give us some valuable information as to who is who once we get a lynch result. I'm really not excited about being on the same train as Tennes and gang, but Thyrrlan seems to be the only lynch option. Should be interesting to see who votes for him and who doesn't. Might aswell rip off the band aid.
remove vote
Vote Thyrllan
Edited: just to add the bold
remove vote
Vote Thyrllan
Edited: just to add the bold
Prazec Goul, on 15 May 2020 - 08:55 PM, said:
Screw it, I don't think we'll hear from him.
vote Thyr
vote Thyr
I would bet my left nut that at least one other scum wanted to get that vote on Thyr as quickly as possible because they KNEW a CF of scum was going to come.
And in a last chance attempt to distance...voted.
I really think we should be looking at these three today as most likely scum candidates.
Aranatha was basically jerking himself off about being right to place his vote on Thyr.
Ruse having done next to nothing all game did his classic drive by.
Prazec DEFINITLY didn't to want to be left off the vote train and didnt want to risk not being on it, so ignored my call to wait and went "fuck it" "I got to get me on this lycnh train"
and voted before anyone else could.
Thats my two cents.
EDITE -typos and grammar
This post has been edited by Sheltatha Lore: 21 May 2020 - 08:59 AM
#904
Tennes
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:24 AM
I'm around and lurking for the next few hours. Caught up with the thread and I'd be game to go after Prazec and Ruse. Both have been top of my list before Kalse's CF.
Hanas felt like a good case on D2 and for me it was a coin toss between voting them or Thyr. But I don't think now is the best moment to rehash a D2 case.
But since we have 3 more hours, I'd like to pound the Gait drum some more. If you don't buy my original case, fair enough. But if the case was indeed weak, Gait wouldn't have to go into panic mode.
Here's the sitch: Gait gets an early vote from a player who had some serious heat on them earlier in the game. That's hardly a huge deal and yet Gait starts scrambling and they scramble HARD. They immediately go on the counter and start throwing accusations back at me. Except everything they post is made up. Like I mentioned previously, getting something wrong once isn't that damning, happens all the time. But it was a false statement after a false statement after a false statement. And it mostly weren't minor errors either. These were glaring misrepresentations of my positions, for example on Ruse and Rikkter. How is this anything but bad faith? And who argues in bad faith? Scum.
After I pressed Gait on their bullshit, they admitted themselves they were scrambling and they said they want to put a pin in this because this is a waste of time.
... it was such a waste of their time that they came back 3 hours later with a new set of accusations against me. I think the context above makes it clear that Gait didn't actually care about doing a proper re-read or looking into Kalse as they claimed. They got all the shit they initially threw at me rebuked so they went to find more shit to throw at me. It's D4 already. If you go through a thread with a singular focus on one player and the intention of building a case on them, you will find enough stuff to do that.
The moment I accused Gait, their entire focus has been to turn this around on me, without caring the tiniest bit about factual accuracy. And that is hella scummy.
Now, if you don't believe my focus on Gait's constant inaccuracies/falsehoods (someone took an issue with me calling them out as lies) is warranted, take it from the interested party.
That is Gait on D2:
misvote?
You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied
oh... ok and how is that an issue again?
happens all the time.
Its an issue for me simply because when a thyr train built up (which you started) you switched off it. Day 1 you jumped from Thyr to Kalse then back to Thyr after being corrected. You then dive to vote on Skintick. This came shortly after Tennes made a case and then removed their vote.
You then Remove vote off Skintick and disappear till after day 1, however you dive back in, with a vote on Okaros and when that doesn't stick and two votes build on Venesara and Thyr you Misvote onto the Thyr tree.
When I join that train I make clear I actually didn't think derailment had an actual base. Yes I raised it as a possibility but I didn't credit it. I leveled my vote purely because Thyrs return was padding the thread, shifting from discussion on the previous page, discussion on Hanas and himself. Thyrs timing was too convenient, the vote on fandaray was half-assed.
Now here's the kicker.
That's when you made a misvote. Echoing cases made on Thyr but not really adding anything. Three votes later you "jump" to Bharghast and Hanas, arguing hard to develop a link between the two.
it's erratic play. Its arguments over arguments combined with "carelessness."
Here Gait is calling out Sheltatha because they voted without removing their earlier vote first.
Would you look at that, back on D2 'erratic play' and 'carelessness' were suspicious to Gait. Only after they've become erratic and careless it suddenly doesn't bother them as much.
Make of that what you will. I feel Gait's reaction to my early vote is damning. Like I said, I can also go for Prazec or Ruse.
Hanas felt like a good case on D2 and for me it was a coin toss between voting them or Thyr. But I don't think now is the best moment to rehash a D2 case.
But since we have 3 more hours, I'd like to pound the Gait drum some more. If you don't buy my original case, fair enough. But if the case was indeed weak, Gait wouldn't have to go into panic mode.
Here's the sitch: Gait gets an early vote from a player who had some serious heat on them earlier in the game. That's hardly a huge deal and yet Gait starts scrambling and they scramble HARD. They immediately go on the counter and start throwing accusations back at me. Except everything they post is made up. Like I mentioned previously, getting something wrong once isn't that damning, happens all the time. But it was a false statement after a false statement after a false statement. And it mostly weren't minor errors either. These were glaring misrepresentations of my positions, for example on Ruse and Rikkter. How is this anything but bad faith? And who argues in bad faith? Scum.
After I pressed Gait on their bullshit, they admitted themselves they were scrambling and they said they want to put a pin in this because this is a waste of time.
... it was such a waste of their time that they came back 3 hours later with a new set of accusations against me. I think the context above makes it clear that Gait didn't actually care about doing a proper re-read or looking into Kalse as they claimed. They got all the shit they initially threw at me rebuked so they went to find more shit to throw at me. It's D4 already. If you go through a thread with a singular focus on one player and the intention of building a case on them, you will find enough stuff to do that.
The moment I accused Gait, their entire focus has been to turn this around on me, without caring the tiniest bit about factual accuracy. And that is hella scummy.
Now, if you don't believe my focus on Gait's constant inaccuracies/falsehoods (someone took an issue with me calling them out as lies) is warranted, take it from the interested party.
That is Gait on D2:
Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:
Kalse, on 15 May 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:
Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:
I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.
Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.
I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.
Either its ADD or diverting attention.
I'm not sure I trust it.
Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.
I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.
Either its ADD or diverting attention.
I'm not sure I trust it.
misvote?
You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied
oh... ok and how is that an issue again?
happens all the time.
Its an issue for me simply because when a thyr train built up (which you started) you switched off it. Day 1 you jumped from Thyr to Kalse then back to Thyr after being corrected. You then dive to vote on Skintick. This came shortly after Tennes made a case and then removed their vote.
You then Remove vote off Skintick and disappear till after day 1, however you dive back in, with a vote on Okaros and when that doesn't stick and two votes build on Venesara and Thyr you Misvote onto the Thyr tree.
When I join that train I make clear I actually didn't think derailment had an actual base. Yes I raised it as a possibility but I didn't credit it. I leveled my vote purely because Thyrs return was padding the thread, shifting from discussion on the previous page, discussion on Hanas and himself. Thyrs timing was too convenient, the vote on fandaray was half-assed.
Now here's the kicker.
That's when you made a misvote. Echoing cases made on Thyr but not really adding anything. Three votes later you "jump" to Bharghast and Hanas, arguing hard to develop a link between the two.
it's erratic play. Its arguments over arguments combined with "carelessness."
Here Gait is calling out Sheltatha because they voted without removing their earlier vote first.
Would you look at that, back on D2 'erratic play' and 'carelessness' were suspicious to Gait. Only after they've become erratic and careless it suddenly doesn't bother them as much.
Make of that what you will. I feel Gait's reaction to my early vote is damning. Like I said, I can also go for Prazec or Ruse.
#905
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:27 AM
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:
There's some really interesting divides going on about who is scummy or not, and that should give us some valuable information as to who is who once we get a lynch result. I'm really not excited about being on the same train as Tennes and gang, but Thyrrlan seems to be the only lynch option. Should be interesting to see who votes for him and who doesn't. Might aswell rip off the band aid.
remove vote
Vote Thyrllan
Edited: just to add the bold
remove vote
Vote Thyrllan
Edited: just to add the bold
Setting up the " don't look at Lynch train" logic
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:
I told yah we would get some good information out of this, but oh man I'm so happy right now, I didn't expect us to hit a scum this early!
Self congratulatory, how convenient.
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:
What's the likelihood that their scum friends voted for him? Not very high, so we should probably start looking closely at anyone that voted for someone else, or didn't vote. So much more to go on now than before.
Whats the likelyhood?... INDEED what was the likelyhood...LOL?
Prazec Goul, on 15 May 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:
With an hour to go, and me likely to fall asleep soon, I didn't trust Shelly to hammer. I'm glad I did it.
Another one that wants to take credit for doing something that is actually not good play by town.
Riding that scum CF for what its worth.
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:
I'm not saying it's not impossible that scum was on the train, I just think it's unlikely. But yes we should definitely have a look at anyone suspicious on the train too ofcourse.
Keeps defending his position that scum on the vote train would be "unlikely".
Cashing in big time... almost too much if you ask me.
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:
Prazec Goul, on 15 May 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:
With an hour to go, and me likely to fall asleep soon, I didn't trust Shelly to hammer. I'm glad I did it.
Yeah me too.
Both basking in the fact that they "got it right"
doesn't matter what else they did. "hey look at us...we are the ones that hammered the scum...look over here...we are inno"
doesn't read well to me at all.
#906
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:33 AM
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:
Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 09:56 PM, said:
Niiiiiice.
As for the train, I bet there was at least 1 killer on it.
People off the train:
Okaros, Osseric, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Venesara.
Take out hyper-poster Sheltatha and there's like a dozen posts between the others. I don't believe entire scum faction would decide to lay so low.
As for the train, I bet there was at least 1 killer on it.
People off the train:
Okaros, Osseric, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Venesara.
Take out hyper-poster Sheltatha and there's like a dozen posts between the others. I don't believe entire scum faction would decide to lay so low.
I agree that there has to be scum off the train, but I don't think we should write off Sheltatha so easily. I could definitely see him being scum. Posting a lot doesn't make someone automatically not scum.
Keeps pushing OFF the train thinking. Doesn't like me for posting out his plan perhaps?
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:
I'm not saying it's not impossible that scum was on the train, I just think it's unlikely. But yes we should definitely have a look at anyone suspicious on the train too ofcourse.
It's actually more likely than unlikely in my opinion.
I'm not sure im liking this subtle push to give people who voted for Thyr less scrutiny..
I'm just saying that it's probably easier to find a scum off the train than on it, in no way did I mean that there can't be scum on the train.
Backs down, seems he was cashing in a bit TOO hard maybe?
People asking questions.
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:
Not to mention, Sheltatha really wanted to wait for Thyrllan to come back and defend himself before the hammer. Doesn't look very good in hindsight. Were they planning on making some sort of reveal claim? Hmm.
indeed, and you seem to really want to be on the train for some reason...
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 10:15 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 10:13 PM, said:
I love how all these late comer Lynch mob voters suddenly have this holler than thou attitude.
Did anybody hit a nerve or something?
I think I hit a nerve ...ACTUALLY.
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 10:28 PM, said:
Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 04:21 AM, said:
A usual Tennes is full of shit and Sheltatha apparently loves him. Get a room you two already.
It seems Thyrrlan have become active, which people have been jumping down his throat for. I don't see any of you geniuses making any genius posts, so what's so different about Thyrrlan all of a sudden? I'm genuinely curious.
However the derailed Thyrrlan train insight has merit, however I'm not convinced that's isn't just a coincidence.
meh... I simply forgot about the game and only realised about 10 min past deadline.
Are we just gonna ignore this? Shel conveniently showed up when the day was over.
Barghast joins the Tennes-Shel love fest. How cozy:
Wtf even is this post:
WHY is it a better alternative than Venesara? And wtf why would you not want to cast a new vote? Just trying to get town killed as fast as possible, are you? Why do you suspect Gait? Will we ever find out?
So scummy man, so so scummy.
Vote Barghast
It seems Thyrrlan have become active, which people have been jumping down his throat for. I don't see any of you geniuses making any genius posts, so what's so different about Thyrrlan all of a sudden? I'm genuinely curious.
However the derailed Thyrrlan train insight has merit, however I'm not convinced that's isn't just a coincidence.
Sheltatha Lore, on 14 May 2020 - 09:59 PM, said:
Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 05:48 PM, said:
Thyrllens only real wrong has been absence but on review there were atleast 4 other players in that exact same category.
Sheltatha has been SUPER vocal Day 1 however didn't really land on any vote at days end.
I'd like to understand why.
Sheltatha has been SUPER vocal Day 1 however didn't really land on any vote at days end.
I'd like to understand why.
meh... I simply forgot about the game and only realised about 10 min past deadline.
Are we just gonna ignore this? Shel conveniently showed up when the day was over.
Barghast joins the Tennes-Shel love fest. How cozy:
Barghast, on 14 May 2020 - 10:47 PM, said:
Venesara today feels like Okral 2.0, Kalse doesn't hesitate to jump in earlyish again
Re Thyr derailment: I think I said dubious shit started to happen around the time Thy got 2 votes, and as you listed yourself Tennes (i belive it was you) there were quite a few things that fit that description going on, and with the limited data Thyr fit the killer profile better than most imo (and still does). My other choice for vote was Gait so agree on those suspicions. And regarding Kalse, well he's playing, dare I say it already, clean. If he's scum he's probably unlikely to show much of it in his posting style.
Re Thyr derailment: I think I said dubious shit started to happen around the time Thy got 2 votes, and as you listed yourself Tennes (i belive it was you) there were quite a few things that fit that description going on, and with the limited data Thyr fit the killer profile better than most imo (and still does). My other choice for vote was Gait so agree on those suspicions. And regarding Kalse, well he's playing, dare I say it already, clean. If he's scum he's probably unlikely to show much of it in his posting style.
Wtf even is this post:
Barghast, on 14 May 2020 - 11:01 PM, said:
vote Thyrllan
for now
What has been said, and because I consider it a better alternative to Venesara or any other current votes and don't see much use casting a new vote, though at this point I'd be satisfied with a vote for Gait too
"It was Nothing. And it got bigger and bigger."
for now
What has been said, and because I consider it a better alternative to Venesara or any other current votes and don't see much use casting a new vote, though at this point I'd be satisfied with a vote for Gait too
"It was Nothing. And it got bigger and bigger."
WHY is it a better alternative than Venesara? And wtf why would you not want to cast a new vote? Just trying to get town killed as fast as possible, are you? Why do you suspect Gait? Will we ever find out?
So scummy man, so so scummy.
Vote Barghast
well this didn't age well....
This still screams out to me. is still very valid. Especially with Anarathas late day two and night two shenanigans.
VOTE ANARATHA
I could change to either ruse or Prazec as all fit the bill in my opinion. Anaratha is the one that simply did the most in terms of "cashing in" on that CF than the others did.
The only things thatvnakes me weird is they have played like bad town all game, and this could simply be more of the same.
I would say its 50/50 between Prazec and Anaratha with ruse being slightly behind those two.
#907
Gait
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:35 AM
Tennes I have never accused you of anything other than being an advocate of lists, scrutinizing an odd interpretation of the pressuere on Thyr and teaming up with Kalse on Venesara.
You are ever the one accusing me in this scenario, I just found a counter argument as I promised I would.
I have listened to Sheltatha despite the carelessness and erratic behaviour.
I have also paid attention to their content and looked at what they have to say.
You have not read into that quote as deeply as I'd like but thats your whole thing. I am ok with that.
You are ever the one accusing me in this scenario, I just found a counter argument as I promised I would.
I have listened to Sheltatha despite the carelessness and erratic behaviour.
I have also paid attention to their content and looked at what they have to say.
You have not read into that quote as deeply as I'd like but thats your whole thing. I am ok with that.
#908
Okaros
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:43 AM
Has this been mentioned already? Kalse's first 'joke' vote is on Gait. Gait also doesn't seem to quite get it, and Kalse has to explain it to them. An interesting bit of interaction, which 1) again makes Gait look overly touchy, but also 2) makes me wonder if two scum would be so on the nose in their first initial interactions?
No matter what happens, you've already won.
vote Galt
That joke is not good enough, revealing the obvious symp-signaling
WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.
[rebuttal]
I am not signaling. I just like puns.
[/rebuttal]
I was referring to Okral's post
Kalse, on 12 May 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:
Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:
Kalse, on 12 May 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:
Okral Lom, on 12 May 2020 - 03:54 AM, said:
Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 02:16 AM, said:
Sometimes being the bear minimum is enough. (sorry,not sorry)
No matter what happens, you've already won.
vote Galt
That joke is not good enough, revealing the obvious symp-signaling
WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.
[rebuttal]
I am not signaling. I just like puns.
[/rebuttal]
I was referring to Okral's post
#909
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:43 AM
Tennes, on 21 May 2020 - 09:24 AM, said:
I'm around and lurking for the next few hours. Caught up with the thread and I'd be game to go after Prazec and Ruse. Both have been top of my list before Kalse's CF.
Hanas felt like a good case on D2 and for me it was a coin toss between voting them or Thyr. But I don't think now is the best moment to rehash a D2 case.
But since we have 3 more hours, I'd like to pound the Gait drum some more. If you don't buy my original case, fair enough. But if the case was indeed weak, Gait wouldn't have to go into panic mode.
Here's the sitch: Gait gets an early vote from a player who had some serious heat on them earlier in the game. That's hardly a huge deal and yet Gait starts scrambling and they scramble HARD. They immediately go on the counter and start throwing accusations back at me. Except everything they post is made up. Like I mentioned previously, getting something wrong once isn't that damning, happens all the time. But it was a false statement after a false statement after a false statement. And it mostly weren't minor errors either. These were glaring misrepresentations of my positions, for example on Ruse and Rikkter. How is this anything but bad faith? And who argues in bad faith? Scum.
After I pressed Gait on their bullshit, they admitted themselves they were scrambling and they said they want to put a pin in this because this is a waste of time.
... it was such a waste of their time that they came back 3 hours later with a new set of accusations against me. I think the context above makes it clear that Gait didn't actually care about doing a proper re-read or looking into Kalse as they claimed. They got all the shit they initially threw at me rebuked so they went to find more shit to throw at me. It's D4 already. If you go through a thread with a singular focus on one player and the intention of building a case on them, you will find enough stuff to do that.
The moment I accused Gait, their entire focus has been to turn this around on me, without caring the tiniest bit about factual accuracy. And that is hella scummy.
Now, if you don't believe my focus on Gait's constant inaccuracies/falsehoods (someone took an issue with me calling them out as lies) is warranted, take it from the interested party.
That is Gait on D2:
misvote?
You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied
oh... ok and how is that an issue again?
happens all the time.
Its an issue for me simply because when a thyr train built up (which you started) you switched off it. Day 1 you jumped from Thyr to Kalse then back to Thyr after being corrected. You then dive to vote on Skintick. This came shortly after Tennes made a case and then removed their vote.
You then Remove vote off Skintick and disappear till after day 1, however you dive back in, with a vote on Okaros and when that doesn't stick and two votes build on Venesara and Thyr you Misvote onto the Thyr tree.
When I join that train I make clear I actually didn't think derailment had an actual base. Yes I raised it as a possibility but I didn't credit it. I leveled my vote purely because Thyrs return was padding the thread, shifting from discussion on the previous page, discussion on Hanas and himself. Thyrs timing was too convenient, the vote on fandaray was half-assed.
Now here's the kicker.
That's when you made a misvote. Echoing cases made on Thyr but not really adding anything. Three votes later you "jump" to Bharghast and Hanas, arguing hard to develop a link between the two.
it's erratic play. Its arguments over arguments combined with "carelessness."
Here Gait is calling out Sheltatha because they voted without removing their earlier vote first.
Would you look at that, back on D2 'erratic play' and 'carelessness' were suspicious to Gait. Only after they've become erratic and careless it suddenly doesn't bother them as much.
Make of that what you will. I feel Gait's reaction to my early vote is damning. Like I said, I can also go for Prazec or Ruse.
Hanas felt like a good case on D2 and for me it was a coin toss between voting them or Thyr. But I don't think now is the best moment to rehash a D2 case.
But since we have 3 more hours, I'd like to pound the Gait drum some more. If you don't buy my original case, fair enough. But if the case was indeed weak, Gait wouldn't have to go into panic mode.
Here's the sitch: Gait gets an early vote from a player who had some serious heat on them earlier in the game. That's hardly a huge deal and yet Gait starts scrambling and they scramble HARD. They immediately go on the counter and start throwing accusations back at me. Except everything they post is made up. Like I mentioned previously, getting something wrong once isn't that damning, happens all the time. But it was a false statement after a false statement after a false statement. And it mostly weren't minor errors either. These were glaring misrepresentations of my positions, for example on Ruse and Rikkter. How is this anything but bad faith? And who argues in bad faith? Scum.
After I pressed Gait on their bullshit, they admitted themselves they were scrambling and they said they want to put a pin in this because this is a waste of time.
... it was such a waste of their time that they came back 3 hours later with a new set of accusations against me. I think the context above makes it clear that Gait didn't actually care about doing a proper re-read or looking into Kalse as they claimed. They got all the shit they initially threw at me rebuked so they went to find more shit to throw at me. It's D4 already. If you go through a thread with a singular focus on one player and the intention of building a case on them, you will find enough stuff to do that.
The moment I accused Gait, their entire focus has been to turn this around on me, without caring the tiniest bit about factual accuracy. And that is hella scummy.
Now, if you don't believe my focus on Gait's constant inaccuracies/falsehoods (someone took an issue with me calling them out as lies) is warranted, take it from the interested party.
That is Gait on D2:
Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:34 PM, said:
Kalse, on 15 May 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:
Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:
Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:
I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.
Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.
I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.
Either its ADD or diverting attention.
I'm not sure I trust it.
Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.
I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.
Either its ADD or diverting attention.
I'm not sure I trust it.
misvote?
You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied
oh... ok and how is that an issue again?
happens all the time.
Its an issue for me simply because when a thyr train built up (which you started) you switched off it. Day 1 you jumped from Thyr to Kalse then back to Thyr after being corrected. You then dive to vote on Skintick. This came shortly after Tennes made a case and then removed their vote.
You then Remove vote off Skintick and disappear till after day 1, however you dive back in, with a vote on Okaros and when that doesn't stick and two votes build on Venesara and Thyr you Misvote onto the Thyr tree.
When I join that train I make clear I actually didn't think derailment had an actual base. Yes I raised it as a possibility but I didn't credit it. I leveled my vote purely because Thyrs return was padding the thread, shifting from discussion on the previous page, discussion on Hanas and himself. Thyrs timing was too convenient, the vote on fandaray was half-assed.
Now here's the kicker.
That's when you made a misvote. Echoing cases made on Thyr but not really adding anything. Three votes later you "jump" to Bharghast and Hanas, arguing hard to develop a link between the two.
it's erratic play. Its arguments over arguments combined with "carelessness."
Here Gait is calling out Sheltatha because they voted without removing their earlier vote first.
Would you look at that, back on D2 'erratic play' and 'carelessness' were suspicious to Gait. Only after they've become erratic and careless it suddenly doesn't bother them as much.
Make of that what you will. I feel Gait's reaction to my early vote is damning. Like I said, I can also go for Prazec or Ruse.
I understand his point on me suddenly moving to Hanas, after I voted for Thyr... it was during my case building on Hanas that Thyr came back.
And when I saw Thyrs response...I voted on pure reaction and instinct to his return posts.
I did then finish my case on Hanas and changed vote to Hanas obviously to back up my case.
This logic loop by Gait did seem strange to me initially, but at the same time...it IS logical. So didn't think much of it.
Looking at from your angle.. like he is so pedantic about mistakes... but then started making many mistakes himself later on, is more ironic than damning really.
I guess it's worth noting.
edit - typos ....aai.
This post has been edited by Sheltatha Lore: 21 May 2020 - 09:44 AM
#911
Gait
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:45 AM
@SL:
Between Aranatha and Prazec I personally find Prazec more likely but I see where you're coming from. I am ok to Vote either and if others agree with that read I will support it.
I ofcourse believe I will get more information off a Tennes CF so I will stay there because I'll be honest I think it serves Town more to know whether either myself or Tennes are infact being honest or playing a con.
Between Aranatha and Prazec I personally find Prazec more likely but I see where you're coming from. I am ok to Vote either and if others agree with that read I will support it.
I ofcourse believe I will get more information off a Tennes CF so I will stay there because I'll be honest I think it serves Town more to know whether either myself or Tennes are infact being honest or playing a con.
#912
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:47 AM
Okaros, on 21 May 2020 - 09:43 AM, said:
Has this been mentioned already? Kalse's first 'joke' vote is on Gait. Gait also doesn't seem to quite get it, and Kalse has to explain it to them. An interesting bit of interaction, which 1) again makes Gait look overly touchy, but also 2) makes me wonder if two scum would be so on the nose in their first initial interactions?
No matter what happens, you've already won.
vote Galt
That joke is not good enough, revealing the obvious symp-signaling
WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.
[rebuttal]
I am not signaling. I just like puns.
[/rebuttal]
I was referring to Okral's post
Kalse, on 12 May 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:
Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:
Kalse, on 12 May 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:
Okral Lom, on 12 May 2020 - 03:54 AM, said:
Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 02:16 AM, said:
Sometimes being the bear minimum is enough. (sorry,not sorry)
No matter what happens, you've already won.
vote Galt
That joke is not good enough, revealing the obvious symp-signaling
WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.
[rebuttal]
I am not signaling. I just like puns.
[/rebuttal]
I was referring to Okral's post
As Gair mentions there
its all WIFOM...and remains so.
#913
Okaros
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:51 AM
This could qualify as some soft defending by Kalse of Prazec's play at the end of day 1.
About Prazec, when I was catching up my first thought was "let's see that because of that we miss the lynch by one vote and Prazec will be all sorry guyz I confused an we would waste a lynch, and second day of arguing about it - great symp play!". But then it turned out there was enough time for him to get corrected and even an extra vote to be safe.
Venesara basically admitted that they catch up the thread reading the posts non-sequentially. Now, to each their own, but that sounds more like scanning for things to quote in order to appear to contribute than actually trying to get actionnable information.
Kalse, on 14 May 2020 - 05:09 AM, said:
Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 10:34 PM, said:
Two observations from end of D1:
Prazec mistaking Okral for Okaros. There was an ongoing conversation about Okral and Prazec themselves mentioned Okral in previous posts. Okaros, meanwhile, was mentioned like once or twice on thread. Why would Okaros even be on Prazec's mind. Smells of a slip.
Venesara came on thread hours before timeout and was supposed to have been catching up. They then went on to quote some stuff that looks like a random collection of posts, without really committing to anything and avoiding to pass judgement. Textbook example of trying to look like you're contributing without actually sticking your neck out. They didn't even vote.
Prazec mistaking Okral for Okaros. There was an ongoing conversation about Okral and Prazec themselves mentioned Okral in previous posts. Okaros, meanwhile, was mentioned like once or twice on thread. Why would Okaros even be on Prazec's mind. Smells of a slip.
Venesara came on thread hours before timeout and was supposed to have been catching up. They then went on to quote some stuff that looks like a random collection of posts, without really committing to anything and avoiding to pass judgement. Textbook example of trying to look like you're contributing without actually sticking your neck out. They didn't even vote.
About Prazec, when I was catching up my first thought was "let's see that because of that we miss the lynch by one vote and Prazec will be all sorry guyz I confused an we would waste a lynch, and second day of arguing about it - great symp play!". But then it turned out there was enough time for him to get corrected and even an extra vote to be safe.
Venesara basically admitted that they catch up the thread reading the posts non-sequentially. Now, to each their own, but that sounds more like scanning for things to quote in order to appear to contribute than actually trying to get actionnable information.
#914
Okaros
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 09:55 AM
Sheltatha, just because something is speculative does not make it worthless, especially if that is based on an *interpretation* of evidence. That is, after all, what we are all doing here all the time - interpreting what people could have meant or hidden when they said something. You use WIFOM as a catch-all to dismiss things that you don't agree with.
#915
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:01 AM
Gait, on 21 May 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:
@SL:
Between Aranatha and Prazec I personally find Prazec more likely but I see where you're coming from. I am ok to Vote either and if others agree with that read I will support it.
I ofcourse believe I will get more information off a Tennes CF so I will stay there because I'll be honest I think it serves Town more to know whether either myself or Tennes are infact being honest or playing a con.
Between Aranatha and Prazec I personally find Prazec more likely but I see where you're coming from. I am ok to Vote either and if others agree with that read I will support it.
I ofcourse believe I will get more information off a Tennes CF so I will stay there because I'll be honest I think it serves Town more to know whether either myself or Tennes are infact being honest or playing a con.
There are plenty of good and bad stuff to point at about Tennes reading thru the thread.
God knows I have pages of quotes of theirs saved and been looked at. Some seem very damning if you look at it thru rose tinted glasses.
But then others look very good. So im torn with Tennes.
The ONE thing I cant shake, is the fact that they had the opportunity to sway the Lynch train to Ven on day two, the case Kasle and others was pushing and started and didn't do it.
Went against the Ven push attempt and was the swing vote to Thyrllan side instead.
If he is scum...its very good move...but also at a cost to losing a team mate very early.
This is something that I just cant see as scum doing without some serious behind the scenes distancing planning which included a sacrifice.
It works then...because that means Kalse followed Tennes on the train...after they had decided to sacrifice Thyr...aai. My head hurts.
So for now I would rather use more tangible evidence. And keep WIFOM distancing arguments as something to keep an eye on.
#916
Okaros
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:02 AM
Well, if Kalse was distancing from Gait he did a good job of it. In retrospect, as others have already mentioned, Kalse's defence of Thyrllan is quite overt, and Gait (alongside Jalan and Skintick, both dead) gets caught up in Kalse's 'suspicion' that a false narrative around Thyr's 'derailed' day 1 lynch is being formed.
#917
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:05 AM
Okaros, on 21 May 2020 - 09:55 AM, said:
Sheltatha, just because something is speculative does not make it worthless, especially if that is based on an *interpretation* of evidence. That is, after all, what we are all doing here all the time - interpreting what people could have meant or hidden when they said something. You use WIFOM as a catch-all to dismiss things that you don't agree with.
I didn't say its worthless.
#918
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:07 AM
remember I voted Kalse for the exact bunch of quotes you mentioned...
Im just stating that it actually is WIFOM so while its wroth noting it...it doesn't mean much by itself.
Im just stating that it actually is WIFOM so while its wroth noting it...it doesn't mean much by itself.
#919
Sheltatha Lore
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:11 AM
in other words...to me, if something can be seen as WIFOM in isolation...it would need other evidence to support one or other side of the WIFOM argument.
THEN it suddenly becomes relevant and has weight.
Hope im making sense to you Okaros?
THEN it suddenly becomes relevant and has weight.
Hope im making sense to you Okaros?
#920
Okaros
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Posted 21 May 2020 - 10:14 AM
Well, I'll say one thing: A reread of Kalse makes Venesara look a whole lot better. Boy they were anxious to try and get that train going again, absolutely leaping on to some small agreement from Shelly that it was odd that Thyr did not vote for Venesara to then (Kalse) vote on Venesara once more.
