[Gait]

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

In the interest of making people engage I leaning towards keeping the pressure on Ruse and similar low activity players. Also Kilava made a half hearted attempt at a case like a clown and then didn't even vote. Ruse is the one I'm leaning most towards now, as they've drive by voted more than once now.

Heres my thoughts about this.

I cant see causality yet.

We know alot. We know Thyr was Scum, We Know Kalse Was Scum.

Where is the link? All I am sure about is Kalse and Ruse voted after each other on the Thyr train. I think we should read patiently and look for links, we have time.

Definitely not rushing into anything. There's two different paths at least that we could go here - go for one of the more scummy high activity players to get a lot of info, or gamble a bit on a low activity player like Ruse that might just be scum based on their play style. But it's true it's just evidence of a play style and maybe assholery. Sure, people have been lynched for less.
Also it's not guaranteed that we find an obvious link - we might have to find scum that has been hiding in plain sight, and then we can't get bogged down on obvious links - scum might not have interacted that way with each other anyway.

Yes, i can agree to this.

My hope is if everyone looks and makes cases, some lines might cross or a pattern might emerge. Honestly a Tennes CF is too much of a knee jerk reaction right now.

Alot has changed, i.e. my read of venesara for example. Kalse seemed to push this train. So my previous read of Thyrs unwillingness to join that train is different.
Perhaps it was just an attempt to broaden the field and it backfired?

anyways I'm not sure its as strong as I thought it was.

[Aranatha]

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 02:06 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

In the interest of making people engage I leaning towards keeping the pressure on Ruse and similar low activity players. Also Kilava made a half hearted attempt at a case like a clown and then didn't even vote. Ruse is the one I'm leaning most towards now, as they've drive by voted more than once now.

Heres my thoughts about this.

I cant see causality yet.

We know alot. We know Thyr was Scum, We Know Kalse Was Scum.

Where is the link? All I am sure about is Kalse and Ruse voted after each other on the Thyr train. I think we should read patiently and look for links, we have time.

Definitely not rushing into anything. There's two different paths at least that we could go here - go for one of the more scummy high activity players to get a lot of info, or gamble a bit on a low activity player like Ruse that might just be scum based on their play style. But it's true it's just evidence of a play style and maybe assholery. Sure, people have been lynched for less.
Also it's not guaranteed that we find an obvious link - we might have to find scum that has been hiding in plain sight, and then we can't get bogged down on obvious links - scum might not have interacted that way with each other anyway.

Yes, i can agree to this.

My hope is if everyone looks and makes cases, some lines might cross or a pattern might emerge. Honestly a Tennes CF is too much of a knee jerk reaction right now.

Alot has changed, i.e. my read of venesara for example. Kalse seemed to push this train. So my previous read of Thyrs unwillingness to join that train is different.
Perhaps it was just an attempt to broaden the field and it backfired?

anyways I'm not sure its as strong as I thought it was.

That scum push for trains with little chance to succeed is something to consider aswell. It's the perfect way for scum to disctance themselves, when they can see where the train is going. But maybe that would be too obvious? See, that's the genius of it, because it gets wifom real quick.

[Gait]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

Lol I never said you didnt help, I said you were missing. (and I openly admit I did not realise you were on the Ruse train, that doesnt change the varacity of my words.)

Leading the charge against Rikkter till you vote switch is still leading the charge? Why are you trying so hard to deny that you defended yourself?

In your PS post edit you strike out Skintick and leave Jalan. Both are dead, That was what I refer to.

Ontop of all this You massage it into a narrative but ignore Jalans involvement through out the day and how they related to others, Rikkter most notably. Kalses CF being what it is Rikkters case on you begins with that activity. you fly right over that onto, "hey he was on Kalses list."

The list is shallow. Theres deeper activity and you immediately jump to deflect from that discussion.

[Gait]

This whole game Tennes its like you throw a fit if we dont listen to how you "flawlessly interpret" the game.

You are welcome to play that way but dont push it on me like I owe you something,

I dont.

[Tennes]

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait[/color]. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

It's WIFOM dude. If you believe Kalse was that level of sneaky, then you might aswell claim he did it to make you believe he was VPI'ing on purpose. Either is next level shit. Very thin ice here.

Excuse me but... what? WIFOM by definition is unprovable speculation and you're quoting a post that is a sequence of five factual statements. Again, what?

I'm legit baffled. Not because we disagree - we seem to agree on nothing except Ruse - but how on earth is a list of facts WIFOM?

And I'm not saying facts in rhetorical fashion to get one over you in a squabble but there is zero speculation here. These are easily verifiable statements.
1. Kalse tried to VPI Gait.
2. Gait didn't respond to me pointing out on D2 they completely omitted Kalse (and Rikkter and Skintick) in their derail narrative.
3. In response to my vote, Gait lied about my take on Ruse.
4. Gait lied about my take on Rikkter.
5. Gait lied about my take on Jalan's CF.

Again, do your own math. If you don't believe this is scummy, I probably can't convince you. Maybe others will see it as valid, maybe they won't. We'll find out soon enough. But there is no drop of WIFOM here.

[Tennes]

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

Lol I never said you didnt help, I said you were missing. (and I openly admit I did not realise you were on the Ruse train, that doesnt change the varacity of my words.)

Leading the charge against Rikkter till you vote switch is still leading the charge? Why are you trying so hard to deny that you defended yourself?

In your PS post edit you strike out Skintick and leave Jalan. Both are dead, That was what I refer to.

Ontop of all this You massage it into a narrative but ignore Jalans involvement through out the day and how they related to others, Rikkter most notably. Kalses CF being what it is Rikkters case on you begins with that activity. you fly right over that onto, "hey he was on Kalses list."

The list is shallow. Theres deeper activity and you immediately jump to deflect from that discussion.

Another easily verifiable lie that Gait will in 5 minutes claim was just an honest mistake. I didn't strike out anything. I quoted directly from Kalse. They struck out Skintick because he was already dead.

[Tennes]

Lol, there's one more!

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

[snip because it's the same post I quote above]
Leading the charge against Rikkter till you vote switch is still leading the charge? Why are you trying so hard to deny that you defended yourself?

[snip]

Which vote switch sweetie? I didn't change my votes once on D3. I voted Ruse on Saturday or Sunday and stayed like that till timeout.

Seriously, this is pathetic.

[Aranatha]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 02:04 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait[/color]. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

It's WIFOM dude. If you believe Kalse was that level of sneaky, then you might aswell claim he did it to make you believe he was VPI'ing on purpose. Either is next level shit. Very thin ice here.

Excuse me but... what? WIFOM by definition is unprovable speculation and you're quoting a post that is a sequence of five factual statements. Again, what?

I'm legit baffled. Not because we disagree - we seem to agree on nothing except Ruse - but how on earth is a list of facts WIFOM?

And I'm not saying facts in rhetorical fashion to get one over you in a squabble but there is zero speculation here. These are easily verifiable statements.
1. Kalse tried to VPI Gait.
2. Gait didn't respond to me pointing out on D2 they completely omitted Kalse (and Rikkter and Skintick) in their derail narrative.
3. In response to my vote, Gait lied about my take on Ruse.
4. Gait lied about my take on Rikkter.
5. Gait lied about my take on Jalan's CF.

Again, do your own math. If you don't believe this is scummy, I probably can't convince you. Maybe others will see it as valid, maybe they won't. We'll find out soon enough. But there is no drop of WIFOM here.

You can't possibly be this obtuse. You're clearly implying that Kalse VPI'ing Gait means that Gait is scum. I'm just pointing out it's WIFOM and very thin. Your math is not even math.

[Aranatha]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 02:40 PM, said:

Lol, there's one more!

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

[snip because it's the same post I quote above]
Leading the charge against Rikkter till you vote switch is still leading the charge? Why are you trying so hard to deny that you defended yourself?

[snip]

Which vote switch sweetie? I didn't change my votes once on D3. I voted Ruse on Saturday or Sunday and stayed like that till timeout.

Seriously, this is pathetic.

Again, are you pretending to be this obtuse? He's saying that you were leading the charge against Rikkter without voting - which if true is pretty suspect imo. Not saying it's true, but clearly you can't be this stupid you're pretending to be right now. At least try to be fair. I'm tired of seeing this shit.

[Barghast]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Kalse tried to VPI Gait.

And did so knowing there's a chance he'd be lynched at some point with his cf pointing right back to it, not saying that helps Gait, but I think this particular point holds little weight

[Sheltatha Lore]

Rikkter, on 19 May 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

Ok you bloody fucking idiots, get a lynch. Obviously the only way you turds are gonna listen to me is to see my CF. Don't fucking remove your votes. Nut up and finish the damn job.

remove vote
Vote rikkter

Don't fuck up scrambling. Hammer and move on.

HERP DERP

[Tennes]

Yes, I was leading the charge on Rikkter. I did that by not voting, barely engaging with them, saying I don't find the case on them too strong, and pushing a case on someone else for literal days. You got me sir. Gait was definitely honest when they said that. Not an ounce of bad faith.

[Aranatha]

Barghast, on 19 May 2020 - 02:46 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Kalse tried to VPI Gait.

And did so knowing there's a chance he'd be lynched at some point with his cf pointing right back to it, not saying that helps Gait, but I think this particular point holds little weight

This is exactly what I was trying to explain, but you did it better.

[Aranatha]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 02:47 PM, said:

Yes, I was leading the charge on Rikkter. I did that by not voting, barely engaging with them, saying I don't find the case on them too strong, and pushing a case on someone else for literal days. You got me sir. Gait was definitely honest when they said that. Not an ounce of bad faith.

LOL Not saying I agree with it, but you were pretending you didn't understand what Gait was saying, which annoyed me.

[Gait]

So I responded to your Lie narrative but lets talk about Day 2.

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 09:01 PM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

[snip]

So in a span of few hours, Gait goes from this is a derailment to jumping on the train. Before their vote there was 3 on Okral, 2 on me, and 1 on Skintick. So for someone claiming Okral train and Shel/Ara argument and Ruse's post were all attempts to derail, Gait surely made peace very quickly with jumping on the Okral train with a vote that was crucial to give it momentum.

I need to make more tea and answer some emails now but more to follow. In the meantime, I'd like Gait to explain helping push the Okral train if you thought it was an attempt at derailment?

I think this argument is not quite saying what I think you want it to say. Heres why:

1. my interaction with Kalse was off a misread of his suspicion of Okral Lom whom he thought might be symping me. I didn't understand that and thought Kalse was hating on my bear joke. Kalse explained their reasoning and I saw their point of view. that took three replies from me, 2 from Kalse and a Vote on Kalse from Sheltatha to resolve. Note Sheltatha made the same mistake and was happy to Vote on it then retract said vote when I was corrected.


2. I'm not pushing the derailment argument, quite the opposite. I have said several times that it looks like derailment. That doesn't mean I am convinced that it is. Thats a direct misrepresentation. I may suspect Thyr as he went quite after garnering some heat but there's nothing from Thyr to actually warrant a case against them yet. Nothing tangible and that is even more alarming. Day 1 came to an end with 0 voting activity from Thyr, and they may be entering modkill territory for inactivity. I think this is the perfect player for scum to try pile on suspicion so I'm taking a step back.

Immediately after this Thyr flooded the thread.


Switch to this:

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 02:14 AM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 11:47 PM, said:

[snip]

@Gait

[snip]

1. Fair enough.

2. Waaaaait a minute. This part:
I'm not pushing the derailment argument, quite the opposite. I have said several times that it looks like derailment. That doesn't mean I am convinced that it is.
is a meaningless, contradictory word salad. You're now saying you're pushing THE OPPOSITE of the argument that Thyr train was derailed, which apparently means that it only LOOKS LIKE IT WAS but you are not sure whether it in fact was. What? Is this some Schoredinger's argument where you think there both was and wasn't an attempt to derail that train.

This are your words Gait (block quotes snipped):

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:37 AM, said:

I'll be honest, Aranatha and Sheltatha read hyper sensitive right now...although Aranatha might be the type of player to dive into arguments feet first. Shelly seems to have an "anywhere but here" vibe. I noted that before.

Its early and I tend to credit Symp cases once everyone has had a say. Still, I think someone hit the mark and scum might be flooding pages to draw attention off.

The only player that has had any real heat on them was Thyrllen whos been extremely mild.

Sheltatha started that train and I agree with the "perfectly average" reasoning. Sheltatha hasn't leaned into Thyrllen despite Thyrs continued mild play style. that feels a bit off. Okral Lom has also been perfectly average and chill but keeps a sharp eye on the game.


I think there may be something here. I keep thinking were I scum i'd play like one of these two.

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:19 PM, said:

I generally agree with this.

Okral aside I think The train on Thyr was derailed. I still stand by my vote since its highly informative. I am less confident of Okral with the random vote on Merrid.


If Okral is PI we have alot to look at voting wise.

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okral gone and in my opinion railroaded to distract from Thyrllen.

Will reread to confirm it but I recall two or three overt efforts to push the vote away from thyr.

Will try lay down my thoughts later once I have had a look at the voting.

How is this pushing the opposite of the derailment argument? You literally said, more than once, that you believe Thyr train was derailed. Why backtrack from this now?

I'm done for the day but I have a day off tomorrow so will be around if people want to chat. I want to lynch Prazec and test the freudian slip theory so I'll stay for now. Hopefully someone follows that idea.
Between Thyrllan and Venesara, I'll admit to having been convinced by Kalse'e arguments against Ven but now Barghast makes a good point that Ven train has Okral 2.0 written all over it.
Thyr has indeed started posting and yet it feels like the flurry of posts didn't actually bring much substance. Not sure yet which way I'd lean if these were the only lynch candidates.

I started with this in mind and reread. I have underlined how I chose my words.

After my reread I added this last part which you edited out conveniently:

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 05:48 PM, said:

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okral gone and in my opinion railroaded to distract from Thyrllen.

Will reread to confirm it but I recall two or three overt efforts to push the vote away from thyr.

Will try lay down my thoughts later once I have had a look at the voting.

With regards to this.

Thyrllen is bound to catch heat after a failed lynch. I want to hear more from this player but I notice how absent they've been might make them a perfect prop.

Both Skintick and Sheltatha started to prod at Thyrllen. After no response both moved on mid game. Skin Voted Okral and Sheltatha Voted for Skintick but then later removed that vote.

Thyrllens only real wrong has been absence but on review there were atleast 4 other players in that exact same category.
Sheltatha has been SUPER vocal Day 1 however didn't really land on any vote at days end.

I'd like to understand why.

After looking at the vote train, it took 11 votes. Thyrllen only ever had 2 votes on them at any point day 1. Read back to the vote reasons and there wasnt much actual momentum. Thats why I backed off.

Since then Thyrllen has padded their post count saying alot about nothing immediately after my last post on how inactive they were and how close to modkill I thought they might be. THAT says alot.

I am happy to vote them out.

Vote Thyrllen

edit: autocorrect changed Thyrllen to Thryllen

I think You had your read on this as if I was only fixated on derailment. I have explained at length that I considered it.

I looked into it and realized at that time nothing exceptional was present. I then progressed to respond to your interpretation but my Vote on Thyr was never about derailment.
You make it seem as If I was super into it and thus deflecting from those on the train.

I wasnt.

You even tried to blame me for not taking it seriously at the time and backing off it and then voting on thyr again for a reason I believed way more convincing.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Whats funny about Rikkter is if he only bothered to come on and vote Ruse at the and of the day he would still be here.

So it's his own damn fault if you ask me.

[Barghast]

Barghast, on 19 May 2020 - 02:46 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Kalse tried to VPI Gait.

And did so knowing there's a chance he'd be lynched at some point with his cf pointing right back to it, not saying that helps Gait, but I think this particular point holds little weight

And since this is the focal point of your case, why no suspicions about myself?

[Gait]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 02:33 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

Lol I never said you didnt help, I said you were missing. (and I openly admit I did not realise you were on the Ruse train, that doesnt change the varacity of my words.)

Leading the charge against Rikkter till you vote switch is still leading the charge? Why are you trying so hard to deny that you defended yourself?

In your PS post edit you strike out Skintick and leave Jalan. Both are dead, That was what I refer to.

Ontop of all this You massage it into a narrative but ignore Jalans involvement through out the day and how they related to others, Rikkter most notably. Kalses CF being what it is Rikkters case on you begins with that activity. you fly right over that onto, "hey he was on Kalses list."

The list is shallow. Theres deeper activity and you immediately jump to deflect from that discussion.

Another easily verifiable lie that Gait will in 5 minutes claim was just an honest mistake. I didn't strike out anything. I quoted directly from Kalse. They struck out Skintick because he was already dead.

Well I saw your read of it and assumed you had edited it. if thats a misread and its Kalse that did this then I wasnt aware.

So say for example I am lying, Why lie like this?

Why make a read that is incorrect off an accusation that it is incorrect to read this highlighted quote?

whats my master plan?
with the lie?

[Gait]

I am struggling to understand Tennes what it is I am trying to achieve with the "lies".

I mean, if Kalse VPIs me, and four others, why treat it as gospel? and why lump it with the Day 2 interaction?

[Gait]

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 03:05 PM, said:

I am struggling to understand Tennes what it is I am trying to achieve with the "lies".

I mean, if Kalse VPIs me, and four others, why treat it as gospel? and why lump it with the Day 2 interaction?

Ah sorry, apologies, if Kalse VPIs me with three others.
I need to be careful here after all.

That's extremely important and I need to better not make any mistakes or else Tennes will be cross.