[Hanas]

Ooh town vig or independent scum? Either way win.

Off out for a bit

[Okaros]

Hanas, on 19 May 2020 - 12:03 PM, said:

Ooh town vig or independent scum? Either way win.

Off out for a bit

Independent scum in a TDMI 2 game? Methinks a vig with a good nose. Quite a bit to scrutinise in Kalse's posts too now (one of the few people/posts Thyr interacted with more than once, interestingly).

[Sheltatha Lore]

Path-Shaper, on 19 May 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

As the blood started gushing out of his neck a light appeared through the living room window. Then another.

"Shit" Joe said. "Out back, quick"
The three killers dashed for the back door.

Karen and Jayne arrived at the small bungalow. It seemed dark. Empty. As they approached they heard a noise which was abruptly cut off. They switched on their torches. Karen approached the front and sent Jayne round the back. She pointed the light through the living room window and as she did she saw three shadows running towards the back of the house.
Shit! She thought. She sprinted around the corner.

Jayne tiptoed around the side. She approached the back door and as she got a few feet away the door burst open. Three men hurdled outside. She shouted as loud as she could, "Stop Police". Two of the men took no notice and ran across the lawn. The third turned towards her and brandished a knife. Too late to pull out her firearm she stumbled backwards. Karen emerged just as the man reached Jayne. Without much thought she pulled out her gun and shot the man three times.

Kalse is dead. He was Jump Around and Scum.

holy shit .. a VIG...yaaaaaaaas!!

[Gait]

interesting!

Notice two things Day 2.

Kalse Voted Venesara and was second on that train, Kalse then switched to Vote on Thyrllen and Ruse followed to set the vote on L-2. Will go look this up real quick.


Off we go to Day 1 discussion!

[Tennes]

I think the flavor text strongly points to a vig. Anyway, two down, at least two to go. Pity we didn't manage to switch the lynch to Ruse but you win some you some I guess.

Kalse's scum CF reminded me of a post I vaguely recalled popping on my radar. They were claiming some people as VPI and I was wondering why would you VPI multiple people so early in a very large game, but I didn't really put much thought into it because I was focused on chasing Ruse and Prazec. Went looking for that post and here it is. Early on D3, right after scum lynch on Thyr was confirmed:

Kalse, on 16 May 2020 - 06:59 AM, said:

Fuck yeah! Rare thing to lynch a scum so early in a game. Actually, I'm a bit surprised this was PB, I've seen him play way cleaner killer games.

Now a good reread is due, but I just want to say I agree with this:

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 09:36 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:

What's the likelihood that their scum friends voted for him? Not very high, so we should probably start looking closely at anyone that voted for someone else, or didn't vote. So much more to go on now than before.

I wouldn't discount the voters. Scum vote for other scum for distancing. Especially when they think the Lynch is inevitable.

I wouldn't discount the second half of the Lynch train at all.

Killer(s) on the train for sure; however I would dismiss the early ones, those that put the target on Thyrllan from the start of the day, I can't see scum being so brazen:

Path-Shaper, on 15 May 2020 - 09:13 PM, said:

Chris text his girlfriend. He needed to meet her. He was in with some bad people. He knew it but she didn't.

I NEED TO SEE YOU. 22:00, RILEYS. C XXX

At ten o'clock Chris put down his beer on the counter. He faced the door. It had just opened to allow a petite blonde. She looked around the pool tables and then towards the bar. She smiled and sauntered over. The smile vanished as she saw the look on Chris' face. He ordered her a drink and whispered about what he had done. She was shocked at first, consoling him with kind words and pleading with him to come clean. He told her he couldn't. She left then, heart broken and sad.

Chris watched her go. No way was he going to confess. He didn't know what he was doing telling Jemma. She was pretty yeah but more than a bit bunny boilerish. He would have to end it.

He walked outside but couldn't see her anywhere. So he got out his keys and made his way to his car. A screech of tyres on the ground, a flash of headlights and before he could react Jenna drove straight through him. Under the wheels he went. The car stopped. Then reversed. Tears in her eyes she hated what he had become. She could do some good by stopping it.

"Fuck you Chris" she sobbed.


It is day 2. About 0 hours remaining.

19 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Skintick, Tennes, Thyr, Venesara.


2 votes Venesara:Okaros, Osseric
10 votes Thyrllan; Skintick, Jalan, Barghast, Gait, Tennes, Kilava, Kalse, Ruse, Aranatha, Prazec Goul
1 vote Fanderay; Thyrllan
2 votes Hanas; Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore

Players not voted; Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Prazec Goul, Venesara.

Thyrllan has been lynched. He was Peanutbutta and Scum

The underlined at least are very probable inno to me

At this point, Kalse was leading the thread with very little scrutiny and they listed three players as strong VPIs: Jalan, Barghast, Gait.
That was a very far reaching assumption, so my take on it is that Kalse was using their good standing in the thread to consolidate trust with 2 innos and protect 1 partner. With Jalan dead and confirmed RI, that leaves 1 scum to be found between Barghast and Gait.

Between these two, I'm definitely leaning Gait. I don't have time at the moment to dig up more posts, but on D2 I was pressing Gait about their derailment theory. I made it clear that I don't care as much about their thoughts on Thyr as I do about why, if they believed there was a derailed train, they never looked into the three people who derailed it. These people were Skintick, Rikkter, and... Kalse. Gait never addressed that point.

So in the light of Kalse's CF, I'm gonna:

Vote Gait.

[Rikkter]

Ok you bloody fucking idiots, get a lynch. Obviously the only way you turds are gonna listen to me is to see my CF. Don't fucking remove your votes. Nut up and finish the damn job.

remove vote
Vote rikkter

Don't fuck up scrambling. Hammer and move on.

[Prazec Goul]

Rikkter, on 19 May 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

Ok you bloody fucking idiots, get a lynch. Obviously the only way you turds are gonna listen to me is to see my CF. Don't fucking remove your votes. Nut up and finish the damn job.

remove vote
Vote rikkter

Don't fuck up scrambling. Hammer and move on.

You’re dead.

[Gait]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

[snip]

At this point, Kalse was leading the thread with very little scrutiny and they listed three players as strong VPIs: Jalan, Barghast, Gait.
That was a very far reaching assumption, so my take on it is that Kalse was using their good standing in the thread to consolidate trust with 2 innos and protect 1 partner. With Jalan dead and confirmed RI, that leaves 1 scum to be found between Barghast and Gait.

Between these two, I'm definitely leaning Gait. I don't have time at the moment to dig up more posts, but on D2 I was pressing Gait about their derailment theory. I made it clear that I don't care as much about their thoughts on Thyr as I do about why, if they believed there was a derailed train, they never looked into the three people who derailed it. These people were Skintick, Rikkter, and... Kalse. Gait never addressed that point.

So in the light of Kalse's CF, I'm gonna:

Vote Gait.

So what You're saying if I am getting this correct is that we look at Kalses list of VPIs (myself and Bharghast exclusively) and ignore Ruse and of course Rikkters case on you?
Scum love lists, they put things into neat tidy little boxes and hey look what that is...


So that aside, your absence was felt EoD when we contemplated that switch to Ruse but here you are, you know, "around", ignoring most of that Ruse activity and flying from leading the Charge on Rikkter, Ignoring Jalans CF and landing at only one votable conclusion:

Kalse was scum therefore it must mean Gait or Bharghast are scum! Gait in particular is scummy because we argued once. It was mostly because Gait didnt want to do things the way I think is right!

Ok then.

cool.

[Okaros]

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

[snip]

At this point, Kalse was leading the thread with very little scrutiny and they listed three players as strong VPIs: Jalan, Barghast, Gait.
That was a very far reaching assumption, so my take on it is that Kalse was using their good standing in the thread to consolidate trust with 2 innos and protect 1 partner. With Jalan dead and confirmed RI, that leaves 1 scum to be found between Barghast and Gait.

Between these two, I'm definitely leaning Gait. I don't have time at the moment to dig up more posts, but on D2 I was pressing Gait about their derailment theory. I made it clear that I don't care as much about their thoughts on Thyr as I do about why, if they believed there was a derailed train, they never looked into the three people who derailed it. These people were Skintick, Rikkter, and... Kalse. Gait never addressed that point.

So in the light of Kalse's CF, I'm gonna:

Vote Gait.

So what You're saying if I am getting this correct is that we look at Kalses list of VPIs (myself and Bharghast exclusively) and ignore Ruse and of course Rikkters case on you?
Scum love lists, they put things into neat tidy little boxes and hey look what that is...


So that aside, your absence was felt EoD when we contemplated that switch to Ruse but here you are, you know, "around", ignoring most of that Ruse activity and flying from leading the Charge on Rikkter, Ignoring Jalans CF and landing at only one votable conclusion:

Kalse was scum therefore it must mean Gait or Bharghast are scum! Gait in particular is scummy because we argued once. It was mostly because Gait didnt want to do things the way I think is right!

Ok then.

cool.

Tennes' was the first vote on Ruse, so he couldn't have contributed to that. Doesn't make him not a lurker, but vote-wise they'd already done it.

[Gait]

Okaros, on 19 May 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 12:33 PM, said:

[snip]

At this point, Kalse was leading the thread with very little scrutiny and they listed three players as strong VPIs: Jalan, Barghast, Gait.
That was a very far reaching assumption, so my take on it is that Kalse was using their good standing in the thread to consolidate trust with 2 innos and protect 1 partner. With Jalan dead and confirmed RI, that leaves 1 scum to be found between Barghast and Gait.

Between these two, I'm definitely leaning Gait. I don't have time at the moment to dig up more posts, but on D2 I was pressing Gait about their derailment theory. I made it clear that I don't care as much about their thoughts on Thyr as I do about why, if they believed there was a derailed train, they never looked into the three people who derailed it. These people were Skintick, Rikkter, and... Kalse. Gait never addressed that point.

So in the light of Kalse's CF, I'm gonna:

Vote Gait.

So what You're saying if I am getting this correct is that we look at Kalses list of VPIs (myself and Bharghast exclusively) and ignore Ruse and of course Rikkters case on you?
Scum love lists, they put things into neat tidy little boxes and hey look what that is...


So that aside, your absence was felt EoD when we contemplated that switch to Ruse but here you are, you know, "around", ignoring most of that Ruse activity and flying from leading the Charge on Rikkter, Ignoring Jalans CF and landing at only one votable conclusion:

Kalse was scum therefore it must mean Gait or Bharghast are scum! Gait in particular is scummy because we argued once. It was mostly because Gait didnt want to do things the way I think is right!

Ok then.

cool.

Tennes' was the first vote on Ruse, so he couldn't have contributed to that. Doesn't make him not a lurker, but vote-wise they'd already done it.

I missed that! So this whole time he was anti-Rikkter but didnt Vote on him.

So if Tennes is in support of a Ruse lynch whys he swiftly shifting blame and not following through?

[Prazec Goul]

Well that was unexpected, but in hindsight I did have some questions about Kalse. His day 1 and 2 cases were clearly designed to take heat away from Thyr.

Aranatha’s comment about knowing who he would vote today after that attempted speed lynch seems off, like he is lining up targets. I really didn’t see much of a ruse case last night, but it was late for me. Is it just based on low posting and drive bys?

[Gait]

Prazec Goul, on 19 May 2020 - 01:18 PM, said:

Well that was unexpected, but in hindsight I did have some questions about Kalse. His day 1 and 2 cases were clearly designed to take heat away from Thyr.

Aranatha’s comment about knowing who he would vote today after that attempted speed lynch seems off, like he is lining up targets. I really didn’t see much of a ruse case last night, but it was late for me. Is it just based on low posting and drive bys?

Low Posting and Drive bys were the core of it.

[Tennes]

This is such a gem. It's so good and desperate that I need to break it up piece by piece.

Quote

So what You're saying if I am getting this correct is that we look at Kalses list of VPIs (myself and Bharghast exclusively) and ignore Ruse and of course Rikkters case on you?

I am saying confirmed scum's list of VPIs posted when they had a very good standing on thread stinks from a mile away and hell yeah I'm gonna pursue that. Anything about ignoring other cases are your words, not mine.

Quote

Scum love lists, they put things into neat tidy little boxes and hey look what that is...

It is a list posted by a confirmed scum, so... yeah! On point.

Quote

So that aside, your absence was felt EoD when we contemplated that switch to Ruse but here you are, you know, "around", ignoring most of that Ruse activity

Honey I was the first person on the Ruse train and I was trying to get people to follow that since what, Saturday, Sunday? Blame yourself that you lot realized this is a better idea than Rikkter lynch 20 minutes before timeout.

Quote

and flying from leading the Charge on Rikkter, Ignoring Jalans CF and landing at only one votable conclusion:

I'd love you to point out when I lead the charge on Rikkter. I lead it so hard by saying I don't really buy the case on them and that I'd much prefer a Ruse lynch. And I'm nowhere near ignoring Jalan's CF - it's very useful for my current theory, in fact, as you can confirm in my previous post.

Quote

Kalse was scum therefore it must mean Gait or Bharghast are scum!

Correct!

Quote

Gait in particular is scummy because we argued once. It was mostly because Gait didnt want to do things the way I think is right!

Almost correct! To be more precise: we argued once and I pointed out a flaw in Gait's reasoning which they ignored. Fast-forward to D4 and it turns out that flaw tied Gait to confirmed scum Kalse.

Thanks for playing.

[Gait]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:25 PM, said:

This is such a gem. It's so good and desperate that I need to break it up piece by piece.

Quote

So what You're saying if I am getting this correct is that we look at Kalses list of VPIs (myself and Bharghast exclusively) and ignore Ruse and of course Rikkters case on you?

I am saying confirmed scum's list of VPIs posted when they had a very good standing on thread stinks from a mile away and hell yeah I'm gonna pursue that. Anything about ignoring other cases are your words, not mine.

Quote

Scum love lists, they put things into neat tidy little boxes and hey look what that is...

It is a list posted by a confirmed scum, so... yeah! On point.

Quote

So that aside, your absence was felt EoD when we contemplated that switch to Ruse but here you are, you know, "around", ignoring most of that Ruse activity

Honey I was the first person on the Ruse train and I was trying to get people to follow that since what, Saturday, Sunday? Blame yourself that you lot realized this is a better idea than Rikkter lynch 20 minutes before timeout.

Quote

and flying from leading the Charge on Rikkter, Ignoring Jalans CF and landing at only one votable conclusion:

I'd love you to point out when I lead the charge on Rikkter. I lead it so hard by saying I don't really buy the case on them and that I'd much prefer a Ruse lynch. And I'm nowhere near ignoring Jalan's CF - it's very useful for my current theory, in fact, as you can confirm in my previous post.

Quote

Kalse was scum therefore it must mean Gait or Bharghast are scum!

Correct!

Quote

Gait in particular is scummy because we argued once. It was mostly because Gait didnt want to do things the way I think is right!

Almost correct! To be more precise: we argued once and I pointed out a flaw in Gait's reasoning which they ignored. Fast-forward to D4 and it turns out that flaw tied Gait to confirmed scum Kalse.

Thanks for playing.

Lol this is a fun game! I am not mad about it though, its actually very clever. I dont have a quarrel with you and I think you are more than welcome to shift blame.
My CF will point right back at you so I am happy to not waste my time or yours.

I encourage others to look deeper than this and judge for themselves.

If you guys need my CF vote for it.

All I ask is that we not forget Kalse defended Tennes by pointing this out:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Kalse, on 18 May 2020 - 06:29 PM, said:

my issue with Rikker's case, as I wrote before, is because of the vote after his "day 1" re-read.

At that point, the case is not that strong. There are more interesting things on his day 2 posts, but what he highlights is consistent with Tennes being killer more than indication that he is. It only looks that way because he already voted him, a bit of confirmation bias going on.

On the other hand, I don't know if the case itself is scummy to deserve a vote (it's not comparable to the Thyrlann attempt) , but it gets there with comments like:

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:22 PM, said:

<snip>

Ah right, sorry I misunderstood you. Kalse has been pinging me a lot in my reread, but I am staying focused on Tennes until he is lynched.

I mean, it's good to believe in what you write, but come on...

That being said, there is still some time in the day, and something else caught my eye

So if we talking about scum support, this might get awkward.

[Aranatha]

In the interest of making people engage I leaning towards keeping the pressure on Ruse and similar low activity players. Also Kilava made a half hearted attempt at a case like a clown and then didn't even vote. Ruse is the one I'm leaning most towards now, as they've drive by voted more than once now.

[Aranatha]

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

[Gait]

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

In the interest of making people engage I leaning towards keeping the pressure on Ruse and similar low activity players. Also Kilava made a half hearted attempt at a case like a clown and then didn't even vote. Ruse is the one I'm leaning most towards now, as they've drive by voted more than once now.

Heres my thoughts about this.

I cant see causality yet.

We know alot. We know Thyr was Scum, We Know Kalse Was Scum.

Where is the link? All I am sure about is Kalse and Ruse voted after each other on the Thyr train. I think we should read patiently and look for links, we have time.

[Aranatha]

Gait, on 19 May 2020 - 01:51 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:44 PM, said:

In the interest of making people engage I leaning towards keeping the pressure on Ruse and similar low activity players. Also Kilava made a half hearted attempt at a case like a clown and then didn't even vote. Ruse is the one I'm leaning most towards now, as they've drive by voted more than once now.

Heres my thoughts about this.

I cant see causality yet.

We know alot. We know Thyr was Scum, We Know Kalse Was Scum.

Where is the link? All I am sure about is Kalse and Ruse voted after each other on the Thyr train. I think we should read patiently and look for links, we have time.

Definitely not rushing into anything. There's two different paths at least that we could go here - go for one of the more scummy high activity players to get a lot of info, or gamble a bit on a low activity player like Ruse that might just be scum based on their play style. But it's true it's just evidence of a play style and maybe assholery. Sure, people have been lynched for less.
Also it's not guaranteed that we find an obvious link - we might have to find scum that has been hiding in plain sight, and then we can't get bogged down on obvious links - scum might not have interacted that way with each other anyway.

[Tennes]

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

[Aranatha]

Tennes, on 19 May 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 19 May 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

If we're going for CF's I'd rather get Tennes CF. Going after Gait so fast and for what? Bullshit I tell ya. When are you guys gonna wake up to the fact that Tennes has been pulling this fake 'cases' all game. Hey, if you're gonna get someone's CF, get mine, then maybe you'll finally lynch Tennes, you fucking bastards. I don't wanna die, I'm just saying. Stop with the bullshit cases.

3 hours ago you were begging people to jump on a case I've been pushing.

Now, back to Gait.

Kalse tried to VPI Gait. Gait avoided pointing fingers at Kalse. Now when I brought this up in the light of Kalse's CF, Gait scrambled to defend themselves in a spectacularly clumsy way. They claimed:
* I didn't help with Ruse lynch. Lie: I started that train.
* Lead the charge on Rikkter. Lie: I wasn't even on that train.
* I ignore Jalan's CF. Lie: it's vital to my case against Gait.

So do your own math.

It's WIFOM dude. If you believe Kalse was that level of sneaky, then you might aswell claim he did it to make you believe he was VPI'ing on purpose. Either is next level shit. Very thin ice here.