Malazan Empire: 2020 Malazan Re-read: Midnight Tides - Malazan Empire

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2020 Malazan Re-read: Midnight Tides Starts Friday, May 1st.

#41 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 12:13 PM

P. 796.

Rhulad and co. run into Serenity. Again I'm amazed at how badass the Forkrul Assail are. And in turn how terrifying Silchas Ruin is for having killed piles of them.
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#42 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:18 PM

P. 868

I always loved the showdown in the Azath cemetery

Quote

‘We are the Seregahl,’ the lead Toblakai said. ‘Before you hurt us, you might have begged for mercy. You might have knelt in worship, and perhaps we would have accepted you. But not now.’ ‘No,’ the Avowed agreed, ‘I suppose not.’ ‘That is all you would say?’ He shrugged. ‘Nothing else comes to mind.’ ‘You are frowning. Why?’ ‘Well, I’ve already killed a god today,’ Iron Bars said. ‘If I’d known this was going to be a day for killing gods, I might have paced myself better.’ The five were silent for a moment, then the first one said, ‘What god have you killed this day, stranger?’ ‘The Pack.’ A hiss from the Toblakai on the far right. ‘The ones that escaped us! The fast ones!’ ‘They were fast,’ Iron Bars said, nodding. ‘But not, it seems, fast enough.’ ‘D’ivers.’ ‘Yes,’ the Avowed said. ‘Six of them … and only five of you.’ The first Toblakai said to its brothers, ‘Careful with this one, then.’ ‘We are free,’ the one-eyed one growled. ‘We must kill this one to remain so.’ ‘True. This is cause enough.’ They began advancing again. Iron Bars inwardly sighed. At least he’d made them nervous. And that might serve to keep him alive a little while longer. Then again, he reminded himself, he’d faced worse. Well, maybe not. Maybe? Who am I kidding? He shifted his weight, rising to the balls of his feet, readying himself to begin the dance. The dance of staying alive. Until help came. Help … from a short, pudgy, balding man. Oh, Hood, Iron Bars, just try and stay alive as long as you can – maybe they’ll die of exhaustion. ‘Look,’ one whined, ‘he’s smiling.’

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#43 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:28 PM

Starting now. Looking forward to this!
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#44 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:32 PM

It's an awesome book. I'm nearly done and I think in retrospect, Midnight Tides is the best book in the series, better even than Memories.
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Posted 08 May 2020 - 04:44 PM

P. 881

This I think was always my favourite scene in MT. So much mystery surrounding Bugg and then this happens. Immortal hearts quickening indeed.

And finally we learn where that dead Edur two books earlier came from.

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Two huddled shapes on the street. Tiste Edur standing around, still kicking, still breaking bones. One stamped down, and brains sprayed out onto the cobbles. Bugg slowed to a stagger, his face twisting with grief, then rage. He roared. Heads turned. And the manservant unleashed what had remained hidden and quiescent within him for so long. Fourteen Tiste Edur, standing, all reached up to clamp their ears – but the gesture was never completed, as thirteen of them imploded, as if beneath vast pressure, in horrible contractions of flesh, the wild spurt of blood and fluids, skulls collapsing inward. Imploded, only to explode outward a moment later. In bloody pieces, spattering the warehouse wall and out across the street. The fourteenth Tiste Edur, the one who had just crushed a head beneath his heel, was lifted into the air. Writhing, his eyes bulging horribly, wastes streaming down his legs. As Bugg stalked forward. Until he was standing before Theradas Buhn of the Hiroth. He stared up at the warrior, at his bloated face, at the agony in his eyes. Trembling, Bugg said, ‘You, I am sending home … not your home. My home.’ A gesture, and the Tiste Edur vanished. Into Bugg’s warren, away, then down, down, ever down. Into depthless darkness, where the portal opened once more, flinging Theradas Buhn into icy, black water. Where the pressure, immense and undeniable, embraced him. Fatally. Bugg’s trembling slowed. His roar had been heard, he knew. Upon the other side of the world, it had been heard. And heads had swung round. Immortal hearts had quickened. ‘No matter,’ he whispered. Then moved forward, down to kneel beside the motionless bodies. He gathered one of those bodies into his arms. Rose, and walked away.

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#46 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 06:04 PM

View PostAptorian, on 03 May 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

P. 24

Such as the Soletaken Tiste Andii, Silchas Ruin, third and last of Mother Dark’s three children. Removing from Scabandari Bloodeye’s path his last worthy opponent among the Tiste. Mother Dark’s three children. Three names … Andarist, who long ago surrendered his power in answer to a grief that could never heal. All unknowing that the hand that delivered that grief was mine … Anomandaris Irake, who broke with his mother and with his kind. Who then vanished before I could deal with him. Vanished, probably never to be seen again. And now Silchas Ruin, who in a very short time will know the eternal prison of the Azath. Scabandari Bloodeye was pleased. For his people. For himself. This world he would conquer. Only the first Andii settlers could pose any challenge to his claim. A champion of the Tiste Andii in this realm? I can think of no-one … no-one with the power to stand before me … It did not occur to Scabandari Bloodeye to wonder where, of the three sons of Mother Dark, the one who had vanished might have gone. But even that was not his greatest mistake …

-----

Ah, so much lore and character building in that short passage. And then in Reaper's Gale when Rake and Killimandaros team up to hunt the renegades assailing the fractured warren.


Agreed on it being a great section.

There's a bit before this where Scabby claims to be at the root of Andarist's grief. Is that right from FoD?
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#47 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 08 May 2020 - 06:22 PM

My memory of FOD is hazy but I believe it's actually a misunderstanding. Something about a wedding and Scabandari being blamed for some tragedy.
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#48 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 02:15 AM

View PostAptorian, on 08 May 2020 - 04:18 PM, said:

P. 868

I always loved the showdown in the Azath cemetery

Quote

'We are the Seregahl,' the lead Toblakai said. 'Before you hurt us, you might have begged for mercy. You might have knelt in worship, and perhaps we would have accepted you. But not now.' 'No,' the Avowed agreed, 'I suppose not.' 'That is all you would say?' He shrugged. 'Nothing else comes to mind.' 'You are frowning. Why?' 'Well, I've already killed a god today,' Iron Bars said. 'If I'd known this was going to be a day for killing gods, I might have paced myself better.' The five were silent for a moment, then the first one said, 'What god have you killed this day, stranger?' 'The Pack.' A hiss from the Toblakai on the far right. 'The ones that escaped us! The fast ones!' 'They were fast,' Iron Bars said, nodding. 'But not, it seems, fast enough.' 'D'ivers.' 'Yes,' the Avowed said. 'Six of them … and only five of you.' The first Toblakai said to its brothers, 'Careful with this one, then.' 'We are free,' the one-eyed one growled. 'We must kill this one to remain so.' 'True. This is cause enough.' They began advancing again. Iron Bars inwardly sighed. At least he'd made them nervous. And that might serve to keep him alive a little while longer. Then again, he reminded himself, he'd faced worse. Well, maybe not. Maybe? Who am I kidding? He shifted his weight, rising to the balls of his feet, readying himself to begin the dance. The dance of staying alive. Until help came. Help … from a short, pudgy, balding man. Oh, Hood, Iron Bars, just try and stay alive as long as you can – maybe they'll die of exhaustion. 'Look,' one whined, 'he's smiling.'




You know....I really tried to get into that fight scene but it always played out as slapstick in my mind. I wish it hadn't been so.



Was there any foreshadowing of the relationship between Trull and Seren in this book? If there was I 100% missed it.


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#49 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 02:16 AM

Do we ever get much details on the "human civilisation" that populated the Nascent?
That always bugged me. How did they get there. What were they like?
I think that's too juicy a morsel to be teased with and never expanded upon.
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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:37 AM

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

Was there any foreshadowing of the relationship between Trull and Seren in this book? If there was I 100% missed it.


There's a moment or two. First one is around the time Rhulad returns from the dead. They meet on bridge or something and they share some kind of insight. I think they may have met again once more.

It's pretty flimsy.

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 02:16 AM, said:

Do we ever get much details on the "human civilisation" that populated the Nascent?
That always bugged me. How did they get there. What were they like?
I think that's too juicy a morsel to be teased with and never expanded upon.


I think the exchange between Rhulad and Mosagg before the warren is flooded is the most info that we get.

On the one hand I agree, I'd love to know more about a civilization that built a continent spanning wall and worshipped Hounds of Shadow.

On the other it's these revelations about lost civilizations, alien solar systems, etc. That help to build the notion of a much bigger tapestry.
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#51 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 07:07 PM

View PostAptorian, on 09 May 2020 - 08:37 AM, said:

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

Was there any foreshadowing of the relationship between Trull and Seren in this book? If there was I 100% missed it.


There's a moment or two. First one is around the time Rhulad returns from the dead. They meet on bridge or something and they share some kind of insight. I think they may have met again once more.

It's pretty flimsy.

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 02:16 AM, said:

Do we ever get much details on the "human civilisation" that populated the Nascent?
That always bugged me. How did they get there. What were they like?
I think that's too juicy a morsel to be teased with and never expanded upon.


I think the exchange between Rhulad and Mosagg before the warren is flooded is the most info that we get.

On the one hand I agree, I'd love to know more about a civilization that built a continent spanning wall and worshipped Hounds of Shadow.

On the other it's these revelations about lost civilizations, alien solar systems, etc. That help to build the notion of a much bigger tapestry.



Yeah..... I have a couple of things to add on that but it involves Fall of Light so I'll leave it for now.


Edit- what I should have also added, I most want to know *how* they got there. That's the biggest question I have abut it.

This post has been edited by Keysi: 10 May 2020 - 03:02 AM

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#52 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 08:44 PM

It strikes me as strange that the Letheri would permit the Edur, who as if the start of the book at least, are the inferior power, to have Letheri slaves. I get that the likes of Udinas was already an indentured, but it seems like it would be a matter if pride. An indentured Letherii is still a Letherii, sort of thing.
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#53 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 09 May 2020 - 09:07 PM

I totally missed, on the first read through, the way the Edur fought their civil war. More like contests with a victor rather than a fight to the death? I wonder if it was anything like the way the Barghast have their grudge matches. Tho they are always to the death.
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#54 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 07:55 AM

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 08:44 PM, said:

It strikes me as strange that the Letheri would permit the Edur, who as if the start of the book at least, are the inferior power, to have Letheri slaves. I get that the likes of Udinas was already an indentured, but it seems like it would be a matter if pride. An indentured Letherii is still a Letherii, sort of thing.


Only about 16% through but my reading is that it's all about the ideology of capital, with little ethno overtones. Tribes taken over because capital requires expansion and growth and our way of life. indentured servitude and slavery are acceptable concepts by their meter. As we both say though that only works is there are no racial undertones to the ideology.

View PostKeysi, on 09 May 2020 - 09:07 PM, said:

I totally missed, on the first read through, the way the Edur fought their civil war. More like contests with a victor rather than a fight to the death? I wonder if it was anything like the way the Barghast have their grudge matches. Tho they are always to the death.


Contrast that with the Toblakai's cultural approach in similar conditions in trying to save their reminent after the clash at the beginning of the book. Quite different approaches with different ends for two fallen nations, and how they are now set up to return.

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 10 May 2020 - 07:59 AM

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#55 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 10 May 2020 - 12:59 PM

Yeah, the Toblakai example is sort if what I mean. Karsa goes from wanting to kill rape and pillage the Sunyd to freeing and avenging them. All because they are Teblor, after all.

I always wondered about the Sunyd. They are described as the smallest and least war like? How small and warlike exactly?

The Barghast were, I believe, related to Thelomen Toblakai and certainly a fair but smaller, but also certainly not less warlike. They could hold the prize for most brutal and warlike in the entire series. Possibly.



Did Erastas make/shape/create the Hold system and it's magic? Can't directly quote right now but from a Feather Witch reading.

I found it interesting that Krul made the warrens, and then towards the end, Reapers Gale I believe, Icarium made a new system, so to speak. I am interested in future books to see how the 2 coexist. Well 3 if you count the Holds but I hunk by then they have all but passed.
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#56 User is offline   Keysi 

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:11 AM

Hmmm due to upcoming events I may need to fall off from the reading pace.

But I will be continuing with my reread.

Will it be best to pose my minor musings as I go along in these threads, albeit several months late, or in the relevant forums?

For minor things picked up I mean.
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#57 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 02:22 AM

View PostAptorian, on 08 May 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

It's an awesome book. I'm nearly done and I think in retrospect, Midnight Tides is the best book in the series, better even than Memories.


It is fantastic. I've had it at #1 for awhile.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#58 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 08:06 AM

Hang on, Shelthana Lore is Spite and Envy's mother? I thought it was someone else in FoD? Killimandros or the goddess of the Imass?
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#59 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 08:35 AM

Killimandaros is the mother of Knuckles and The Errant. Don't recall the father.

But I do recall there was something about Draconus relationship with some Elder Goddess.
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#60 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 13 May 2020 - 08:36 AM

nah, Drac is the daddy though, maybe that's your thought?

over the halfway point now, the war is just beginning, the Ceda and his cadres have just wasted their power blowing up empty villages.
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