[Abyss]

So they don't need a mask, but still need 17 assault rifles. Fascinating how fickle their god's protection is.

[Morgoth]

Gust Hubb, on 24 May 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

This is the quintessential human flaw. A social animal that is by nature fractious and rebellious. It is the reason we evolve ideas and behaviors so rapidly, but also why when uniformity and solidarity is required, it rarely happens. The world will burn and there will be people capering about with matches and gasoline because it is their right to do so.

I disagree, I think this is mostly a cultural issue, rather than a biological one. Here for instance all the political parties support the lockdown, and there have been no protest of any note. You still get the occasional twat breaking isolation rules, but that's rare enough for it to get into national news. Now we're reopening, albeit incrementally, and people are mostly pretty good at keeping to the rules, even when they're less stringent.

Americans act the way they do because America be crazy, or so is my scientific theory anyways.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 25 May 2020 - 06:35 AM

[Macros]

America be crazy.

But hard agree with most of that, it's attitude and culture.

Britain has an almost toxic culture of selfishness (not quite the US and As level of entitlement, but getting there)
I think the latest generations (mine included) took nothing from the 80s but rampant greed, consumerism and a misunderstanding of the words 'need' and 'want'. They brought nothing from their grandparents understanding of the idea of sacrifice for others/ community spirit.

I tar myself somewhat with that brush too, but I have been actively working on the need/want in my own life.

Other continental European countries have more of a reverence and close connection with their older generation (anecdotal, based on my perceptions). Whether this is driven by a more community feel or, as in northern Italy (which led, unfortunately to bigger problems with Covid) family units stay together through generations almost in the same compound.

The modern world has led to a bigger disconnect from family life as moving countries/cities for work is nearly the norm now than the exception.

[Cause]

I’m hoping it’s a bad poll but apparently 40% of republicans believe the corona vaccine will be used to microchip them so they can be tracked? Wtf is wrong with people

[Macros]

Ironically they probably took the poll online...on their phone...which tracks them

[Garak]

There are people in my country who refused to have their temperature checked because they believe that: it puts a chip in their head, the laser imprints on ID on their forehead, it breaches their right to have medical info be private. You can find idiots everywhere sadly.

[Malankazooie]

My state has eased restrictions on restaurants and is allowing dine-in customers. A limited number are now allowed to have a seat at a table. With the summer weather here - patio, sidewalk and outside eating options are encouraged. Coinciding with this is consideration to allow serving of alcohol outside and allowed on the streets to pedestrian foot traffic. I really hope they allow this. To be able to walk around with a liter sized plastic cup shaped like a hand grenade filled with the most potent drink known to man (like they can in New Orleans) would be a game changer.

[Daser]

83 pages.......just wow.

I normally dont believe in conspiracy theories, but the mass hysteria concerning this virus/disease is mindbogling.

so many facts are just being ignored and when experts try to speak up they are fired/ignored or shamed to silence.

a little list of things generelly considered to be facts.

1. Lockdowns dont work. ( you need very few infected for a lockdown to have any chance to work and you need to know the disease dont come back next year.)

2.Corona viruses has been here for a long time and we have NEVER managed to make a vaccine against it.

3.Professors and other experts that have seen the numbers from around the world all agree that this isnt really that dangerous. if you take the number for how many people die in a year, then Covid 19 counts as 4,5 week extra dead so far.

4. Tuberkulose kills 1,5 million every year. Not even 3/4 of a million is dead of Covid 19 yet.

5. If you take all the dead of covid 19. their average age is 79 and with 2 cronic diseases.

i am sure i could find many more, but i know nobody is interested.. Because people love when they think their goverment are doing something. People dont like to hear the politicians dont know what to do because it is a new virus.

Apparantly Sweden is the only country where experts got to decide what to do and not politicians.


https://www.youtube....h?v=DS6sI9vBQsQ short video with a number cruncher.

[Aptorian]

Ooohh. A Corona Crisis denier. This is exciting. This is like having a Nico for pandemics. Don't scare them away people.

I'm a bit confused by your arguments. At first I thought you were criticising the deniers but you're actually doing the opposite. These facts you speak of - could you give us some sources other than an amateur YouTube channel?

First of all, what country are you from?

Second of all. Your facts aren't really facts. They're fake news and poorly framed strawman arguments.

1. Of course lock downs work. If there's little to no interaction between people the virus can't spread. Closing down a hot spot for a month is the safest way to ensure the virus is contained. Why do you think the European countries who closed everything down avoided Italian or American numbers?

2. What's your argument here? It's a new version. There's more focus. Even if there's never going to be a good vaccine then we still have to take all necessary precautions.

3. Who are these professors and experts? Do you think the doctors in New York, Mexico City or Northern Italy agree with you? The ones who are knee deep in body bags?

4. Comparing death counts is pointless. Covid is being contained. If it wasn't contained millions would be dead by now. Do you not understand that super simple bell curve graphic that's been on the news for months?

5. The point isn't that most people will survive getting infected. The point is that a lot won't. And those people who get very sick will destroy your health infrastructure.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 26 May 2020 - 07:24 PM

[Daser]

So an amateur youtuber shows extracts from a british professor, a british nobel price winner, a Israeli professor and so on, but it isnt legit because he is amateur?

1. no not really, but i wont try to debate it.

2.My point is that this disease we have closed the intire world down for is less dangerous than TB or Malaria and alot of other stuff we dont give a shit about.

3. How should i know what the damn doctors in those cities think. Do you have links to them saying something interesting?

4, Wait what! If you are a normal healthy person under the age of 70 this isnt dangerous at all.

5, Totally disagree. that is absolutely the point.

[Gorefest]

https://www.kcl.ac.u...yths-debunked-1

[Aptorian]

2. You claim that Covid 19 is less dangerous than TB and Malaria. But how do you determine that? On a global scale these diseases you mention are very serious but also known and accounted. Not so in the Northern Hemisphere. We haven't adapted to Malaria, yet. But TB is mostly eradicated.

Covid on the other hand acts similarly to a very strong, very infectious flu with an insidiously long incubation time. It can spread much quicker, much more widely than TB or Malaria.

You should be comparing Covid 19 to something like the Spanish flu. Not bacteria or parasites.

The rest of your points I'll leave to Azath, the resident news bot, to address.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 26 May 2020 - 08:27 PM

[Cause]

Tb is treatable by antibiotics and has a vaccine which is partly effective. Also it’s sad it kills so many but frankly they are the poorest of the poor and and die from what is essentially a poverty comorbidity. Most healthy people even if they do get TB will carry it dormantly their whole lives with no adverse effects.

[Macros]

Also, when A concerted effort is made to wipe out local mosquitos malaria rates drop rapidly (see the building of the Panama canal as a concerted effort to wipe them out to keep the workforce healthy)

So you've basically listed two diseases that are in no way like the Corona virus.

Top marks for that man.

Next time give us hydrochloriquine and bleached lungs please

[Mezla PigDog]

Daser, on 26 May 2020 - 06:46 PM, said:

83 pages.......just wow.

I normally dont believe in conspiracy theories, but the mass hysteria concerning this virus/disease is mindbogling.

Don't diss our 83 pages unless you have read them all and find them full of hysteria, please. Have some manners. Mostly reasoned debate and healthy scepticism of different governments handling.

[Daser]

I am just saying that taking precausions to keep healthcare systems from being overrun is sensibel. Putting intire nations in lockdown is insane.

This is what i believe, but like i said in my first post. People dont want to hear that the goverment dont know what they are doing.

Healthcare has always been a numbers game, but for some reason it isnt now.

Apparantly people can stay home and its no problem that people are doing 40 % less exercise and dont get out in the sun anymore. They dont get visits from friends and loved ones.

Whole branches are going out of business. Airlines, travel agencies, Gyms, restaurants, hotels and many more.

And only 1 single country followed the science.....Yes it is Sweden again. The rest was up to goverments/politicians who wants to get reelected and you cant get reelected if your opponent can say that you are responsibel for killing your population.

[D'rek]

Daser, on 26 May 2020 - 09:52 PM, said:

And only 1 single country followed the science.....Yes it is Sweden again. The rest was up to goverments/politicians who wants to get reelected and you cant get reelected if your opponent can say that you are responsibel for killing your population.

Well Sweden has a population of about 10 million and ~4000 COVID deaths so far. Next door to them, Norway and Denmark each have a population of about 5 million, but only ~260 deaths (Norway) and ~550 deaths (Denmark) so far, respectively. (Sources are the WHO 2019-nCoV "situation reports")

So you're saying that "following the science" results in an 8 times higher death rate from COVID?

[Aptorian]

Daser, on 26 May 2020 - 09:52 PM, said:

I am just saying that taking precausions to keep healthcare systems from being overrun is sensibel. Putting intire nations in lockdown is insane.

This is what i believe, but like i said in my first post. People dont want to hear that the goverment dont know what they are doing.

Healthcare has always been a numbers game, but for some reason it isnt now.

Apparantly people can stay home and its no problem that people are doing 40 % less exercise and dont get out in the sun anymore. They dont get visits from friends and loved ones.

Whole branches are going out of business. Airlines, travel agencies, Gyms, restaurants, hotels and many more.

And only 1 single country followed the science.....Yes it is Sweden again. The rest was up to goverments/politicians who wants to get reelected and you cant get reelected if your opponent can say that you are responsibel for killing your population.

You write that people don't want to hear that the government dont know what they are doing. And this is somewhat true. Nobody in the West, have had to go through anything like this in living memory. So, when governments saw how fast things went bad in Italy and health experts recommend a full shutdown, then of course everything gets shutdown. This isn't about getting re-elected (initially), it's about saving the country. You've got to remember that initially the experts didn't know a lot about the virus. How dangerous was it really, why was Italy having a melt down when China supposedly only had 3000 confirmed death in and around Wuhan?

Now, 3 months later, it's easy to say that the Lockdown is unnecessary and it's "not that dangerous". We've had time to do research, look at statistics, observe the people who got sick, etc. More importantly the worlds countries have had time to adapt, to produce PPE to protect people, mass production of masks and sanitizer which was missing before, businesses and institutions have had time to change their health and safety practices, health ministries and media have had time to educate the population, so that people take the virus series when you reopen.

And again, all these numbers and examples you keep bringing up are not relevant in the face of the potential of the virus. Go read the link Gorefest posted for you. If the Virus was allowed to just burn through the country and nobody was taking precautions, especially shutting down big gatherings and high risk areas like gyms, then you'd have piles of dead people. Especially big Urban areas would be crushed, which hits the rest of the country.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 27 May 2020 - 04:08 AM

[Abyss]

In case you were wondering....

Daser, on 26 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

... If you are a normal healthy person under the age of 70 this isnt dangerous at all.

....is where any point you could make lost any chance of being taken seriously, by me at least.

[Daser]

Abyss, on 27 May 2020 - 04:06 AM, said:

In case you were wondering....

Daser, on 26 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

... If you are a normal healthy person under the age of 70 this isnt dangerous at all.

....is where any point you could make lost any chance of being taken seriously, by me at least.

You think that is bad exageration but dont mind Aptorian saying this should be compared to spanish flu?