[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Court cites coronavirus in blocking Trump administration's food stamp cuts

Judge Beryl A. Howell of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia cited the coronavirus pandemic in her decision to suspend the rule from going into effect.'

https://www.nbcnews....tRn18QUMcuSvBJU

'Trump says he has been tested for coronavirus, expects results within days

The White House also announced the European travel ban would be expanded to include the U.K. and Ireland.'

https://www.nbcnews....within-n1158991

He's going to auction the rights to his live Covid Reveal Party to make up for his losses in the stock market.... (Kidding... hopefully....)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 March 2020 - 09:54 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

How many times in the last few days has anyone else said "I think I might have coronavirus"? Or is it just me? I have had a vague cold coming on for a few days. It feels like I'm breathing in dust. My throat and airways have started to feel very dry this evening. Have I got it? Have I not? Have I even got anything more than an overactive imagination?

[Tsundoku]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 14 March 2020 - 09:54 PM, said:

He's going to auction the rights to his live Covid Reveal Party to make up for his losses in the stock market.... (Kidding... hopefully....)

So blue will mean Democrat and pink will mean ... less Republican?

[Malankazooie]

Out and about today running some errands and saw some strange things. On the Interstate, I saw a school bus, an older and well traveled by the looks, and one of the bigger types used for team travel purposes, but it wasn't full of kids, it was full of boxes that were stacked high enough that I could spot them in the window. Like a definite packing up type situation. It was heading north and was followed by a couple of clunky RVs. Then when I got off the Interstate and was heading to my destination, I was at stoplight and I looked up to the top of a large tree. No leaves as of yet because we are late winter here. At the top of the tree, on the leafless large limbs, was a group of crows, just sitting, making no noise, like they were 'waiting'. Very strange, because, not 100% sure, but I think around this time crows break up in late winter/early spring and pair off to begin mating and starting a brood and so are done with being in large groups for the season. I returned home with this feeling of dread I am having difficulty shaking.

[Tsundoku]

So if this is true (hmmm), does it now mean even viruses have standards?

https://www.news.com...a820e4c1fbc0c2d

"President Donald Trump has tested negative for the new coronavirus, according to the president’s personal physician.

The White House released the test results Saturday night after Trump told reporters hours earlier that he had taken the coronavirus test, following days of resisting being screened despite the fact that he had been in recent contact with three people who had tested positive for the virus, including members of the Brazilian president’s delegation who visited with him at his Florida resort.

“One week after having dinner with the Brazilian delegation in Mar-a-Lago, the President remains symptom-free,” Sean Conley, the president’s physician, said in a memo."

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 15 March 2020 - 12:46 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

[QuickTidal]

There is not a remote chance in the pit of hades that if Trump has it that ANYONE will be told that fact. He will lie about it and go stay sequestered at mar a lago.

So I doubt he’s negative.

[Mezla PigDog]

God. Now I've got a niggly cough. The NHS website says you have to self-isolate for 7 days if you have a "new continuous cough for more than 4 hours". What does continuous mean?! And does everyone with a small child at home feel excited at the prospect of having to be alone for 7 days or am I just a bitch?

[Traveller]

Back in January my boss told me I had some leave to use up, and would I like to take a week in March? So I already took Wednesday to friday of last week off as I busted a rib; and now I've got a week off.

Just as the hospital I work in announced it has 3 confirmed cases. I knew it had one back last tuesday but they've been sitting on that info for a few days.

So it's all going a bit batshit there now, with elective cases getting cancelled, and I suspect staff all being redistributed to cope with more ventilated patients.

Their plan for worst case - overspill CCU (which is usually already full) into main theatre (where I work) and keep critical patient ventilated on our anaesthetic machines. There isn't really the staff for this so we'll probably have to look after them. On the downside, if someone has a car crash or something there won't be anywhere to put them, so they will be deciding who gets the ventilators! Also in this scenario, all anaesthetic drugs and vapours will last about 9 days before supplies run out. Pretty bleak if it happens...

On the plus side, I can now clear the old folk out of the way in town with one hearty cough. We've not hugely stockpiled, but we've both been topping up on rice and tins, and my mother in law came round yesterday with a box full of all the stuff we've been told not to panic buy.

Our town is small and has a very high percentage of old people so they've all been reading the papers and raiding the supermarkets daily. Why pasta though, weird. Also, if you're stuck at home, toilet roll shouldn't be an issue as you could just have a wash after instead if you had to.

So I'll probably get it at some point as I'll have to go back to work in a highly contagious area; I'm not going back while my chest hurts when I so much as yawn though, a persistent cough is not what I need right now.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 15 March 2020 - 08:36 AM

[Mezla PigDog]

Traveller this is the best time for a week off! Slightly ahead of the true crazy and schools are still open. Enjoy yourself if your ribs allow.

[Malankazooie]

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'I'm an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain's "herd immunity" coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire

[...] When I first heard about this, I could not believe it. I research and teach the evolution and epidemiology of infectious disease at Harvard's Chan School of Public Health. My colleagues here in the US, even as they are reeling from the stumbling response of the Donald Trump administration to the crisis, assumed that reports of the UK policy were satire – an example of the wry humour for which the country is famed. But they are all too real.

Let me take the arguments on their merits. The stated aim has been to achieve "herd immunity" in order to manage the outbreak and prevent a catastrophic "second wave" next winter [...] A large proportion of the population is at lower risk of developing severe disease: roughly speaking anyone up to the age of 40. So the reasoning goes that even though in a perfect world we'd not want anyone to take the risk of infection, generating immunity in younger people is a way of protecting the population as a whole.

We talk about vaccines generating herd immunity, so why is this different? Because this is not a vaccine. This is an actual pandemic that will make a very large number of people sick, and some of them will die. Even though the mortality rate is likely quite low, a small fraction of a very large number is still a large number. And the mortality rate will climb when the NHS is overwhelmed. This would be expected to happen, even if we make the generous assumption that the government were entirely successful in restricting the virus to the low-risk population[...] at the peak of the outbreak the numbers requiring critical care would be greater than the number of beds available. This is made worse by the fact that people who are badly ill tend to remain so for a long time, which increases the burden.

And of course you can't restrict it to this age group. Think of all the people aged between 20 and 40 who work in healthcare, or old people's homes. You don't need many introductions into settings like these for what we might coyly call "severe outcomes". In Washington State, nearly all the deaths reported so far have been associated with nursing homes. Is everyone in a high-risk group supposed to withdraw themselves from society for six months until they can emerge once the (so far entirely imaginary) second wave has been averted?

[...] Don't panic, but do prepare. If your government won't help you, do it yourself.'

https://www.theguard...mzZ_3tAH72Ib4p0

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 March 2020 - 05:17 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

I'm seeing a lot of criticism at the UK approach and that's fine - I haven't a clue what the right thing to do is, time will tell. Or it won't if every country takes the same approach and there's no mass human experimental variations to reap interesting data. But what I am curious about for the countries in lock down is what is the end point?

Eradication of the virus? I don't think that is possible now.

Hold out for a vaccine? Assuming best case we get one with decent efficacy by what date? End of the year would be insane speed. Which country is going to "own" it? Which countries are set up for mass vaccine manufacture? I think the UK is but not certain as most pharmaceutical stuff has been sent to India and China where there are high skilled cheaper workforces. I assume it's a matter of national security that wealthy countries would retain the capability but that requires sensible, long term public health focussed governance and we know the UK and US can't boast that lately. So ok, let's say we have vaccine available in each of our own countries by autumn at best. Who is getting the first batches? Healthcare workers I guess. Who next? Vulnerable people probably but which ones? Elderly? Heart condition? Diabetics? Those with cancer? When will Irish schools reopen? When are Italians getting out of their apartments? If lockdown does temporarily work and people are indoors for weeks and not getting infected, what do they do when the government says "Now only people who work in food manufacture and distribution are allowed out"? Are people that altruistic over more than a couple of weeks?

We couldn't get the flu vaccine for my son this year as there was a shortage. He's in the age bracket that the NHS recommends. There was a shortage due to a manufacturing problem. And that's something the worlds governments and WHO continuously plan for and have huge manufacturing plants geared up for. Just sayin' I suppose.

I guess the key will be to watch what happens as China starts moving again. Personally I'm fine taking my chance with the UK approach but then I don't know anyone seriously ill and I feel like I can cope with the few 80+ year olds left in the family dying off.

My cough is definitely not continuous so I went to mingle with old people at the garden centre today - getting my supplies in for a spring stuck within the confines of my own property!

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 15 March 2020 - 05:48 PM

[QuickTidal]

Italy hasn’t peaked yet, 368deaths in the last 24hrs. Exponential growth again in almost perfect example. Spain is now where Italy was 5 days ago, and Switzerland is ramping up to be next.

Meanwhile is Canada, we’re not even screening properly at the goddamned airport. Fucking clowns.

Having a big work meeting tomorrow to find out what we will do...hopefully they’ll let me work from home as our daycare is shut for at least a week, possibly/probably longer.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Mezla PigDog, on 15 March 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'm seeing a lot of criticism at the UK approach and that's fine - I haven't a clue what the right thing to do is, time will tell. Or it won't if every country takes the same approach and there's no mass human experimental variations to reap interesting data. But what I am curious about for the countries in lock down is what is the end point?

Eradication of the virus? I don't think that is possible now.

Hold out for a vaccine? Assuming best case we get one with decent efficacy by what date? End of the year would be insane speed. Which country is going to "own" it? Which countries are set up for mass vaccine manufacture? I think the UK is but not certain as most pharmaceutical stuff has been sent to India and China where there are high skilled cheaper workforces. I assume it's a matter of national security that wealthy countries would retain the capability but that requires sensible, long term public health focussed governance and we know the UK and US can't boast that lately. So ok, let's say we have vaccine available in each of our own countries by autumn at best. Who is getting the first batches? Healthcare workers I guess. Who next? Vulnerable people probably but which ones? Elderly? Heart condition? Diabetics? Those with cancer? When will Irish schools reopen? When are Italians getting out of their apartments? If lockdown does temporarily work and people are indoors for weeks and not getting infected, what do they do when the government says "Now only people who work in food manufacture and distribution are allowed out"? Are people that altruistic over more than a couple of weeks?

We couldn't get the flu vaccine for my son this year as there was a shortage. He's in the age bracket that the NHS recommends. There was a shortage due to a manufacturing problem. And that's something the worlds governments and WHO continuously plan for and have huge manufacturing plants geared up for. Just sayin' I suppose.

I guess the key will be to watch what happens as China starts moving again. Personally I'm fine taking my chance with the UK approach but then I don't know anyone seriously ill and I feel like I can cope with the few 80+ year olds left in the family dying off.

My cough is definitely not continuous so I went to mingle with old people at the garden centre today - getting my supplies in for a spring stuck within the confines of my own property!

A large percentage of the deaths are a result of not having enough ventilators. If effective vaccines or medications aren't ready by winter, at least the world will have time to produce more ventilators. (Densely populated factories have been shut down, but automation is replacing human labor at an accelerated rate as a consequence, particularly in China.)

'Trump offers "large sums" for exclusive access to coronavirus vaccine
German government tries to fight off aggressive takeover bid by US

[...] Trump was doing everything to secure a vaccine against the coronavirus for the US, “but for the US only”.'

https://www.theguard...navirus-vaccine

[Mezla PigDog]

I'm on a roll now - let's say we do get a vaccine and they go into mega production. Which other vaccines won't be getting made considering there will be finite resources and facilities? Ones that are needed by poor people is my guess - bad luck poor people. Let's also hope the 2020/21 flu season isn't a bad one. Or Ebola doesn't feel like making a come back.

And let's also hope Donald "America First" Trump is no longer president if the first vaccine or efficacious drug is developed in the US. Or if it is developed outside and the US is on its knees, it is not outside the realms of possibility that he would deploy the one thing the US is permanently readily investing in! Well let him try sending his army against the herd immunity might of the United Kingdom I say!

[Mezla PigDog]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 15 March 2020 - 06:10 PM, said:

A large percentage of the deaths are a result of not having enough ventilators. If effective vaccines or medications aren't ready by winter, at least the world will have time to produce more ventilators. (Densely populated factories have been shut down, but automation is replacing human labor at an accelerated rate as a consequence, particularly in China.)

The lack of ventilators here is fine because we barely have enough doctors to expertly use the ones we have. I think the UK has taken a dispassionate look at the big picture and decided that we will bounce back faster this way with less long term repercussions. May not be ethically sound which is why you can't find a lot of experts publicly backing it up.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

 Mezla PigDog, on 15 March 2020 - 06:26 PM, said:

 Azath Vitr (D, on 15 March 2020 - 06:10 PM, said:

A large percentage of the deaths are a result of not having enough ventilators. If effective vaccines or medications aren't ready by winter, at least the world will have time to produce more ventilators. (Densely populated factories have been shut down, but automation is replacing human labor at an accelerated rate as a consequence, particularly in China.)

The lack of ventilators here is fine because we barely have enough doctors to expertly use the ones we have. I think the UK has taken a dispassionate look at the big picture and decided that we will bounce back faster this way with less long term repercussions. May not be ethically sound which is why you can't find a lot of experts publicly backing it up.

Good thing there's that extra £350m a week (or was it £350b a day? might as well have been) from Brexit going to the NHS....

Hopefully you're kidding, but ventilator machines do not require a tremendous amount of expertise to use. The intubation, monitoring, and adjustments are primarily carried about by nurses. Simple AI can also easily assist in assessing and monitoring patients and making automatic adjustments.

Johnson hopes the UK will benefit economically and get a head-start on Europe post-Brexit. Fewer old people means more money for the NHS, right? 'Brexit' (but) for life!

As for a potential shortage of vaccines next winter---well, that's foreseeable, so it can be prepared for. The world does have the economic resources and industrial potential to easily accomplish that. (Though 'free market' capitalists might deem it insufficiently profitable....)

'Vaccines for epidemics have to overcome the same scientific and regulatory hurdles as other promising treatments, but they also suffer from a near total lack of interest from the markets that drive the pharmaceutical industry. Only a few massive companies retain the ability to develop and produce a vaccine from start to finish, partly because of the expense and the timescales involved and partly because they've consolidated the patents on manufacturing processes – a situation analysts openly call an oligopoly. A success for one of these companies is a treatment for a widespread, persistent disease that they can sell every single year in perpetuity. The last industry blockbuster was Merck's HPV vaccine Gardasil, in development for nearly 20 years, released in 2006, and still bringing in over £1bn annually. There is no way to easily apply their slow-burn research and profit model to an epidemic. As the leader of the UK's Ebola response, Adrian Hill, told the Independent in 2014, "Unless there's a big market it's not worth the while of a mega-company … There was no business case to make an Ebola vaccine for the people who needed it most."'

https://www.theguard...utical-business

'What is remarkable to me, and shouldn't be, is that [the United States is] the lowest number on that list—we have fewer hospital beds per 1,000 people than Italy, China, and South Korea. There's a reason for that, Carroll explains: "Hospitals don't survive financially in the United States by keeping beds open and equipment idle." Hospitals don't survive financially in the United States by keeping beds open and equipment idle. Even the system that is meant to keep us from dying answers to the gods of economics.'

https://slate.com/ne...t-prepared.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 March 2020 - 07:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

The amount of ghoulish fuckers on this planet who are like “meh, it’s just life if older people die from this” kind of astounds me. I know it shouldn’t, but it does

Worse, the people most at risk for seriousness of this in my orbit, are fucking boomers (including but not limited to my parents and immunocompromised niece) and treating this flippantly “it’s just a flu, I’m not worried, I’m not social distancing”...because they functionally don’t understand why ppl are dying in places like Italy....re:existing health infrastructure VS being overwhelmed/not enough ventilators. So here we have Gen X and younger actively TRYING to help keep the previous generation alive...and them going “nah, ima go to this gathering of 500ppl because I’m (apprently) immortal”

My own mother, who is both compromised/vulnerable (due to her age a day lung collapse a few years back) was like “meh, it’s not a big deal, it’s not where I live”....she did thankfully listen to what I said about social distancing and why it’s important right now...but the fact that I had to walk her through it pisses me off

Ugh. Fuck.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 March 2020 - 07:17 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'As top infectious diseases expert Dr. Anthony Fauci was making the Sunday show rounds to tell the public to temporarily avoid restaurants and bars amid the coronavirus crisis, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) was peddling a contrary and potentially dangerous message. During an appearance on Fox News' Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo, the California Republican said that there are a lot of economic concerns so people should support local business.

"If you're healthy, you and your family, it's a great time to go out and go to a local restaurant, likely you can get in easy," Nunes stated. "Let's not hurt the working people in this country...go to your local pub."

Images around the country of St. Patrick's Day revelers packing bars and pubs'

https://www.thedaily...s-pubs?ref=home

'Illinois Gov: WH Staffer Called to Yell About Virus Tweet

"I got a call at about 11 o'clock last night after that tweet from a White House staffer who yelled at me about the tweet. That is what I got."

Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker expressed extreme pessimism on Sunday that the Trump administration will address massive overcrowding at Chicago's O'Hare airport due to the recent European travel ban. Appearing on NBC's Meet the Press, the Democrat said that the only communication he's received from the White House was angry complaints about his Saturday night tweet calling for the administration to "get its s@#t together."'

https://www.thedaily...-tweet?ref=home

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 15 March 2020 - 07:57 PM