[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 03 March 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

Stuff all over Europe is starting to be cancelled.

I was initially surprised by Italy being such a hotbed, but then I guest tourist destinations like that are going to be ground zero for a lot of this simply because people travel within that 14 day window or aren't symptomatic, and so unknowingly infect others.

In Canada, some clown KNEW she was infected with it (had all the symptoms), and hid it when she landed at the airport from Iran, and proceeded to take a GO bus full of people to get home...some people are so selfish. I've heard rumours that she might be charged with negligence since she was aware of her symptoms and her relative in Iran was legit diagnosed with it before she left.

[Malankazooie]

You guys been washing your hands adequately? You better be. I don't want to have to play the role of "hand washing shamer."

[Gorefest]

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2020 - 02:54 PM, said:

Macros, on 03 March 2020 - 02:44 PM, said:

Stuff all over Europe is starting to be cancelled.

I was initially surprised by Italy being such a hotbed, but then I guest tourist destinations like that are going to be ground zero for a lot of this simply because people travel within that 14 day window or aren't symptomatic, and so unknowingly infect others.

In Canada, some clown KNEW she was infected with it (had all the symptoms), and hid it when she landed at the airport from Iran, and proceeded to take a GO bus full of people to get home...some people are so selfish. I've heard rumours that she might be charged with negligence since she was aware of her symptoms and her relative in Iran was legit diagnosed with it before she left.

That is criminally negligent and endangering others, so that is some sweet jail time. Although they probably dont want to infect the inmates.

[Obdigore]

Malankazooie, on 03 March 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

You guys been washing your hands adequately? You better be. I don't want to have to play the role of "hand washing shamer."

Just in the bathroom at work. Hear someone come in, use the urinal, and then the door opens and I'm alone in the bathroom again. No sound of sink.

People are fucking gross.

[Obdigore]

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 03 March 2020 - 01:43 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 March 2020 - 01:37 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 03 March 2020 - 08:04 AM, said:

If only Washington had some form of accessible, non-costing healthcare

WTF is wrong with the United States?

Late Stage Capitalism.

I mean we have capitalism too, but 3gs/person to help stop a potentially deadly pathogen from rampaging through your elderly and immune compromised population? Yikes.

I didn't say Capitalism.

I said Late Stage Capitalism. Everything is money. Everything has a cost, and the government and businesses decide there is an acceptable loss of life before they start getting their next quarter profits hurt. It's a short term outlook.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Cause, on 29 January 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

Canada along with Greenland are some of the harder countries to infect!

Those N95 masks are tricky, do you have a beard? You will need to shave. Also uncomfortable for long periods of time.

This virus is scary if what China says about it being infectious during the incubation period is true but frankly that's hard to accept as true until they provide more details. It goes against what I know. The incubation period is when your viral load is so low you don't have symptoms yet, so how can you be infecting other people. However if it's true it means quarantines will be hard to maintain, you will have to trap the healthy in with the sick.

The other thing that I think is important to remember is health care has come a long way and just as importantly at least for many of the luckier countries is that the average human being today is healthier today than say during the Black Death. The bubonic plague still has outbreaks today but besides being easily treatable you stand a very good chance of surviving the disease today even though it killed half of Europe once.

There are some respirator masks that can be worn with a beard, provided the area where the seal forms doesn't have any hair under it. For example, this P100 mask:



https://www.amazon.c...XYTXP3KE2RKPNNB

P100 masks are more effective against viruses than N95 masks: 'The growing threat of an influenza pandemic presents a unique challenge to healthcare workers, emergency responders, and the civilian population. [...] The filtration efficiency of selected NIOSH-approved particulate N95 and P100 filtering facepiece respirators (FFRs) and filter cartridges was investigated against the viable MS2 virus [...] The mean penetrations of viable MS2 through the N95 and P100 FFRs/cartridges were typically less than 2 and 0.03%, respectively, under all flow conditions. All N95 and P100 FFR and cartridge models assessed in this study, therefore, met or exceeded their respective efficiency ratings of 95 and 99.97% against the viable MS2 test aerosol, even under the very high flow conditions.'

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24011377

Minimizing exposure apparently helps minimize the risk of severe symptoms in otherwise healthy and non-elderly people:

'why did the coronavirus kill a 29-year-old doctor?

Because he was a doctor. "It's a dosage thing," explains Anna Yeung-Cheung, a virologist at Manhattanville College. Health care workers are exposed to far more people, often pretty sick people, than the average person, and therefore stand to come in contact with higher levels of the virus. A lot of virus can still overwhelm a healthy immune system."'

https://slate.com/te...avirus-now.html

'The WHO has sent a team of international experts to China to investigate [...] they visited Beijing, Wuhan, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Chengdu. Here are some interesting facts about Covid that I have not yet read in the media:

[...] When a cluster of several infected people occurred in China, it was most often (78-85%) caused by an infection within the family by droplets and other carriers of infection in close contact with an infected person. Transmission by fine aerosols in the air over long distances is not one of the main causes of spread.

[...] The vast majority of those infected sooner or later develop symptoms. Cases of people in whom the virus has been detected and who do not have symptoms at that time are rare - and most of them fall ill in the next few days.'

[...] Pre-existing conditions: The fatality rate for those infected with pre-existing cardiovascular disease in China was 13.2%. It was 9.2% for those infected with high blood sugar levels (uncontrolled diabetes), 8.4% for high blood pressure, 8% for chronic respiratory diseases and 7.6% for cancer.

[...] The younger you are, the less likely you are to be infected and the less likely you are to fall seriously ill if you do get infected:'

https://www.reddit.c...tm_source=share

Full WHO report (caveat: from February 24th, but it doesn't seem to have been substantively contradicted since tmk):

https://www.who.int/...inal-report.pdf

Best to wear gloves and eye protection too. Unfortunately I don't know of any commercially available gloves that will destroy viruses and still let you easily grip objects, use a smartphone, etc.---silver has antibacterial properties but is not effective against viruses.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 March 2020 - 05:04 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

On the $3000 screening fee figure:

'As of now, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the use of two tests, one from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and one from the New York State Department of Public Health. Neither agency is currently charging patients for the test.

The bogus claim originated on Twitter, where it has amassed more than 250,000 likes and retweets. Then it became a meme that spread on Facebook.

[...] it appears that the claim is based on a news story that detailed the experience of one man in Miami. [...] Azcue had been to China for work and returned to Miami in January with “flu-like symptoms.” He went to Jackson Memorial Hospital since he worried that he may have contracted the new coronavirus disease, now called COVID-19. The initial cost for his visit was $3,270, billed to his insurance company.

That total included an emergency room visit and testing for 22 upper respiratory pathogens, according to Lidia Amoretti, a spokeswoman for the hospital who answered questions from FactCheck.org by email. Azcue tested positive for the flu and, after hospital workers consulted with the Florida Department of Health, he was not tested for COVID-19.

[...] the CDC isn’t currently charging patients. That could change, though. The U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services has created a billing code for COVID-19 testing, and other labs could get emergency authorization from the FDA for testing.

Jennifer Kates, the director of global health and HIV policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation, said in a phone interview, “there could be other costs incurred.” Visits to the doctor’s office and the emergency room can cost patients money, she said, noting that some high-deductible insurance plans could effectively charge patients who go to the ER $1,000 or more.'

https://www.factchec...cost-over-3000/

'New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) announced Monday evening that he would direct state health insurers to waive fees related to coronavirus testing in the state amid fears of an outbreak in the U.S.'

https://thehill.com/...ith-coronavirus

'Democrats are trying to make coronavirus care free for patients

Cost is a barrer to patients getting coronavirus care. Democrats want to fix that.

[...] Rep. Ruben Gallego (D-AZ) announced Tuesday he would introduce a bill that would make Medicaid cover testing for and treatment of Covid-19 for every American, no matter how they get their insurance. This would be an important change to US health care: The federal government would assume responsibility for medical care for every American under these particular circumstances.'

https://www.vox.com/...st-usa-new-york

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I'd rather die than let the government pay for my medical care!


^/s

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 04 March 2020 - 05:27 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'After You Wash Your Hands, Clean Your Smartphone

[...] a recent study in the Journal of Hospital Infection found, after swabbing the mobile devices of 250 hospital staff, that coronaviruses can survive on the kinds of smooth glass and plastic found in smartphones for up to nine days. Kenneth Mak, the director of the Singapore Ministry of Health's medical services, told reporters in February that cleaning phones is an even more important anti-coronavirus measure than wearing face masks.

Your phone is, as public health professor Peter Hall put it recently in the Conversation, a "portable petri dish." Touching an infected surface, or your face, and then a phone is an easy way for the virus to find a home on your screen. The mucus that carries the coronavirus can then dry on your phone, allowing the disease to last longer. A 2019 survey found that people touch their phones 2,617 times per day on average, and experts estimate that the devices generally host 10 times more bacteria than toilet seats, mostly because people don't commonly clean them as often. Wash your hands! Then wash your phone.

[...] Apple instructs users to clean iPhones by first unplugging all cables and then rubbing them down with a microfiber cloth and warm soapy water. Google similarly recommends cleaning the backs and sides of Pixels with cleaning wipes or household soap, and to hand-wash the case fabric with mild soap or laundry detergent.'

https://slate.com/te...wash-hands.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 March 2020 - 05:38 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'The infectious COVID-19 virus could be carried on the surface of banknotes for several days, the WHO warned on Monday night.

To stop the spread of the disease, people should use contactless payments where possible and wash their hands after handling cash, a WHO spokesman said.

[...] Ultraviolet light or high temperature is being used to disinfect and sterilise banknotes, before the cash is sealed and stored for up to 14 days before being recirculated, China's central bank said at a press conference.

[...] The Bank of England also recognised that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and encouraged frequent hand washing.

[...] A Bank of England spokesman told the Telegraph: "Like any other surface that large numbers of people come into contact with, notes can carry bacteria or viruses.

"However, the risk posed by handling a polymer note is no greater than touching any other common surface, such as handrails, doorknobs or credit cards."'

https://uk.finance.y...4Z-ZarSR55oNW1-

The problem with paying with credit cards in person is that they tend to either require you to touch a key pad (though the attendant could do this, if it's not a debit card requiring a pin) or to allow the attendant to handle the card. Today I'm going to be paying with exact change....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 March 2020 - 03:04 PM

[Obdigore]

Azath Vitr (D, on 04 March 2020 - 03:04 PM, said:

'The infectious COVID-19 virus could be carried on the surface of banknotes for several days, the WHO warned on Monday night.

To stop the spread of the disease, people should use contactless payments where possible and wash their hands after handling cash, a WHO spokesman said.

[...] Ultraviolet light or high temperature is being used to disinfect and sterilise banknotes, before the cash is sealed and stored for up to 14 days before being recirculated, China's central bank said at a press conference.

[...] The Bank of England also recognised that banknotes "can carry bacteria or viruses" and encouraged frequent hand washing.

[...] A Bank of England spokesman told the Telegraph: "Like any other surface that large numbers of people come into contact with, notes can carry bacteria or viruses.

"However, the risk posed by handling a polymer note is no greater than touching any other common surface, such as handrails, doorknobs or credit cards."'

https://uk.finance.y...4Z-ZarSR55oNW1-

The problem with paying with credit cards in person is that they tend to either require you to touch a key pad (though the attendant could do this, if it's not a debit card requiring a pin) or to allow the attendant to handle the card. Today I'm going to be paying with exact change....

That's odd. I generally slide my chip card into the CC machine, then pull my chip card out. There's no requirement for me to hand my card to anyone or to touch a machine, unless I'm at a resteraunt where you pay at the table.

[D'rek]

You guys still don't have contactless "tap" where you just hold the card vaguely close to the terminal for a few seconds?

[Obdigore]

D, on 04 March 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

You guys still don't have contactless "tap" where you just hold the card vaguely close to the terminal for a few seconds?

Apple/Google pay and all that jam is available at smaller establishments, but I'm not aware of something like that at the larger ones. It's possible I'm just not using that feature though.

[D'rek]

Obdigore, on 04 March 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

D, on 04 March 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

You guys still don't have contactless "tap" where you just hold the card vaguely close to the terminal for a few seconds?

Apple/Google pay and all that jam is available at smaller establishments, but I'm not aware of something like that at the larger ones. It's possible I'm just not using that feature though.

The U.S. in general does seem to be slower to get these things. I remember being surprised when visiting years ago that a lot of places were still doing signatures on receipts for credit cards when even my tiny town back home had upgraded to mobile terminals and PINs.

[Obdigore]

D, on 04 March 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 04 March 2020 - 03:41 PM, said:

D, on 04 March 2020 - 03:40 PM, said:

You guys still don't have contactless "tap" where you just hold the card vaguely close to the terminal for a few seconds?

Apple/Google pay and all that jam is available at smaller establishments, but I'm not aware of something like that at the larger ones. It's possible I'm just not using that feature though.

The U.S. in general does seem to be slower to get these things. I remember being surprised when visiting years ago that a lot of places were still doing signatures on receipts for credit cards when even my tiny town back home had upgraded to mobile terminals and PINs.

Signatures are a joke. You can sign any name you want. No one checks and it has nothing to do with card security. Its the same as the TSA, it's to make people think things are secure, not actually there to make it secure.

[Malankazooie]

We don't live in the stone ages here in the US for fuck's sake. All my credit cards have the swipe-less / no contact chips, and most places I use them have that feature available (in fact, most only have the contactless option, I can't recall the last time I actually swiped my card).

<><><><><><><><><>
A funny from Colbert last night.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 04 March 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

We don't live in the stone ages here in the US for fuck's sake. All my credit cards have the swipe-less / no contact chips, and most places I use them have that feature available (in fact, most only have the contactless option, I can't recall the last time I actually swiped my card).

<><><><><><><><><>
A funny from Colbert last night.

I knew about paying with a smartphone at some places but I don't remember reading about contactless credit card payment before (except maybe in the context of thieves scanning your card in your pocket?...). None of my cards currently has this feature; I should get a new one that does. (I asked some of my rich relatives---one of whom recently got a new credit card---if theirs have it; they don't, and they've never heard of it either.) But I usually only shop in person at the state store---in Pennsylvania private businesses are not allowed to sell liquor to go---archaic if not the Stone Age:

'The commonwealth's uncommon approach dates back to the Prohibition-smashing 21st Amendment in 1933. Gifford Pinchot, Pennsylvania's Republican governor, was an outspoken and famous teetotaler — unlike many of his hypocritical political peers, who publicly loved Prohibition and privately frequented speakeasies. Days before Prohibition's official demise, Pinchot called a special session of the General Assembly to create the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board for the express purpose of discouraging the purchase of alcoholic beverages "by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible."'

https://whyy.org/art...as-liquor-laws/

Highly doubt they have no-contact scanners. There are lots of small local shops that sell beer to go, though again I'm pretty sure they don't have contactless scanners---most of them ask you to give them your card to swipe it for you.

Same goes for the train station---their website got hacked a few months ago so they're only allowing in-person ticket purchases, until they get their new card-based system fully functional, which will be contactless (I think they already have this for weekly passes). Subway already has contactless cards.

Accelerating the transition to contactless cards could be another positive outcome.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 05 March 2020 - 02:45 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'COVID-19 Isn't As Deadly As We Think'

(Or more accurately: probably isn't... and the author probably gives too much weight to results from a single cruise ship, which even with a few thousand people on board is a relatively small sample.)

https://slate.com/te...n-we-think.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 05 March 2020 - 02:51 AM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Azath Vitr (D, on 05 March 2020 - 02:44 AM, said:

Malankazooie, on 04 March 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

We don't live in the stone ages here in the US for fuck's sake. All my credit cards have the swipe-less / no contact chips, and most places I use them have that feature available (in fact, most only have the contactless option, I can't recall the last time I actually swiped my card).

<><><><><><><><><>
A funny from Colbert last night.

I knew about paying with a smartphone at some places but I don't remember reading about contactless credit card payment before (except maybe in the context of thieves scanning your card in your pocket?...). None of my cards currently has this feature; I should get a new one that does. (I asked some of my rich relatives---one of whom recently got a new credit card---if theirs have it; they don't, and they've never heard of it either.) But I usually only shop in person at the state store---in Pennsylvania private businesses are not allowed to sell liquor to go---archaic if not the Stone Age:

'The commonwealth's uncommon approach dates back to the Prohibition-smashing 21st Amendment in 1933. Gifford Pinchot, Pennsylvania's Republican governor, was an outspoken and famous teetotaler — unlike many of his hypocritical political peers, who publicly loved Prohibition and privately frequented speakeasies. Days before Prohibition's official demise, Pinchot called a special session of the General Assembly to create the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board for the express purpose of discouraging the purchase of alcoholic beverages "by making it as inconvenient and expensive as possible."'

https://whyy.org/art...as-liquor-laws/

Highly doubt they have no-contact scanners. There are lots of small local shops that sell beer to go, though again I'm pretty sure they don't have contactless scanners---most of them ask you to give them your card to swipe it for you.

Same goes for the train station---their website got hacked a few months ago so they're only allowing in-person ticket purchases, until they get their new card-based system fully functional, which will be contactless (I think they already have this for weekly passes). Subway already has contactless cards.

Accelerating the transition to contactless cards could be another positive outcome.

'The majority of U.S. retailers don't accept contactless payments' (from August 2019, but AFAIK still the case)

https://www.creditka...-fad-or-future/

Late November 2019: 'The first attempt at broad-scale issuance of contactless cards in the US was fought and lost more than a decade ago. Limited merchant acceptance, high issuance costs and tepid consumer adoption were all strong indictors that the initial US foray for tap-to-pay was simply too early. Today, these inhibitors have diminished, and unlike last time, a real market opportunity for contactless cards has become apparent.

[...] The US is now in a position to join many markets around the world where contactless is a prominent – if not the dominant – way to pay at checkout. The following factors have created the foundation for contactless cards to succeed in the US'

https://www.forbes.c...0/#586c8e2636f4

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 05 March 2020 - 03:15 AM

[Mezla PigDog]

It's amazing how many topics can be turned into a "the US is in the Dark Ages" discussion