[Abyss]

D, on 10 February 2020 - 09:52 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 February 2020 - 08:01 PM, said:

Knowing what will happen at Coltaine's death, this is even deeper...

Quote

“Sormo E’nath—an old man—was executed at Unta,” Kulp snapped. “He was the most powerful of the warlocks—the Empress made sure of him. It’s said he took eleven days on the wall to die. This one is not Sormo E’nath. This is a boy.”

“Eleven days,” Bult grunted. “No single crow could hold all of his soul. Each day there came another, until he was all gone. Eleven days, eleven crows. Such was Sormo’s power, his life will, and such was the honor accorded him by the black-winged spirits. Eleven came to him. Eleven.”

How can you even forget this one. That's what made it such a big moment in the first place.

I took the 11 crows, but I think I forgot that it was one a day for 11 days. Coltaine was all at once and enough crows to take casualties and still get it done.

[Macros]

Abyss, on 10 February 2020 - 06:42 PM, said:

Macros, on 10 February 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:

Oh boo to removing my joke, you're no fun any more Abyss

You can do better than what that was Mac.

I really can't.


Heading into the finalle now.

Lists visions of the Jaghut barrows are a lot darker for me this time, knowing more about the T'lan Imass and what all they did. I've probably read DG like ten times but this somehow always slipped by me, no idea why it hadn't reared its head at me before.

A lot of other stuff I'm catching this time as well. The foreshadowing and set up for stuff that will be happening like 8 books later is staggering. GotMisms aside the sheer depth of planning that has gone into the series is amazing, I'm sure some stuff later was shoehorned to fit in places but a lot of the major beats have their origins rooted firmly in this book (and to a lesser extent GotM)

[Aptorian]

I'm still early in the book.

One thing I was fascinated by was the little lore nugget of... I think it's Erhlitan? being the original seat of seven ascendants and supposedly within the giant rock/hill at the center of the city there's a buried city in which there was some kind of tempel or fortress with seven thrones or some such. One assumes it's where some of the First Heroes were ruling from?

That sounds like prime prequel material for Esslemonts next Path to Ascension books if I ever heard the like.

[Traveller]

I'm trying to make sense of what Heboric is talking about in the desert ruins.
First Empire ruins - a gate was opened, which killed/mineralised a load of people, the remains of whom are still there.
The Tlan Imass, the 'immortal custodians', turned up to clear up the mess.
Then the group find a load of mineralised soletaken and D'ivers - from a ritual that ran wild, turning a load of unsuspecting and unprepared people into wild animals that killed their own families, and were only stopped by the Imass.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 11 February 2020 - 08:48 AM, said:

...

Lists visions of the Jaghut barrows are a lot darker for me this time, knowing more about the T'lan Imass and what all they did. I've probably read DG like ten times but this somehow always slipped by me, no idea why it hadn't reared its head at me before.

I always felt that part jumped out because our sense of the Tlan Imass to that point is more or less benevolent or at least not deliberately brutal. Then we have them planting Jaghut children at the bases of trees and things get grimdark.

Quote

A lot of other stuff I'm catching this time as well. The foreshadowing and set up for stuff that will be happening like 8 books later is staggering. GotMisms aside the sheer depth of planning that has gone into the series is amazing, I'm sure some stuff later was shoehorned to fit in places but a lot of the major beats have their origins rooted firmly in this book (and to a lesser extent GotM)

To this day I will never forget how staggering it was to read GotM, DG, and MoI back to back and just be blown away at the sheer scope and depth of the series.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on 11 February 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

I'm still early in the book.

Same but since this is like my seven(teen)th reread i don't feel weird jumping around to check things or for discussion.

Quote

One thing I was fascinated by was the little lore nugget of... I think it's Erhlitan? being the original seat of seven ascendants and supposedly within the giant rock/hill at the center of the city there's a buried city in which there was some kind of tempel or fortress with seven thrones or some such. One assumes it's where some of the First Heroes were ruling from?

7C in particular gets a lot of worldbuild in this book, and the notion that a historical 'fact' presented at one point, ie the ere are seven cities, could be disputed a few chapters later, ie and here's the unofficial EIGHTH city!.

Quote

That sounds like prime prequel material for Esslemonts next Path to Ascension books if I ever heard the like.

I wouldn't mind ICE drilling into the first conquest of 7C. There's a lot to work with there and we have the Empire relatively cohesive but starting to fray leading uyp to the Claw's shot at Dassem at Yghatan, which ICE showed us in NoK.

[Abyss]

Traveller, on 11 February 2020 - 11:04 AM, said:

I'm trying to make sense of what Heboric is talking about in the desert ruins.
First Empire ruins - a gate was opened, which killed/mineralised a load of people, the remains of whom are still there.
The Tlan Imass, the 'immortal custodians', turned up to clear up the mess.
Then the group find a load of mineralised soletaken and D'ivers - from a ritual that ran wild, turning a load of unsuspecting and unprepared people into wild animals that killed their own families, and were only stopped by the Imass.

The thing i only caught on later reads was that the ritual that fucked up the HFE didn't happen in one fell swoop 'zap everyone is a shapechanger'. It happened gradually and led to, among other things, the gates to the colonies like Leth being shut down and those colonies cut off.

On this particular bit, it's not clear to me exactly who triggered what but i had the sense that the Imass finally decided they had to kill off all the raging shapeshifters (and everyone else), and someone's escape attempt went very badly.

Could have any part of it wrong tho.

[Traveller]

Seems probable - although the scenes are reminiscent of a pyroclastic flow or something otherwise more instantaneous - Heboric mentions a gate/warren opened and massive amounts of magic unleashed. That chamber might be separate from the remains of the Soletaken and Imass further on though.

[Macros]

Putting the book down for the night.
Squint has just taken the shot. Still gets me every time. Fuck you Mallick Rel, and double fuck you to Pormqual.

[Abyss]

Macros, on 11 February 2020 - 10:04 PM, said:

Putting the book down for the night.
Squint has just taken the shot. Still gets me every time. Fuck you Mallick Rel, and double fuck you to Pormqual.

Kills me every time I read it.

I was very glad that we see Squint again later. It was a nice touch even if we didn't find out if he lived thru Leth and DoD/TCG.

[Traveller]

I love Felisins arc, and her ordeal in 'preparation' for her role. Right at the end of her journey, talking with Baudin, this really gets to me...

‘You were wrong,’ she whispered, an image of armour within her suddenly cracking, fissures spreading. And beneath it, behind it, something was building.

Armour can hide anything until the moment it falls away. Even a child. Especially a child.'

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 February 2020 - 06:29 AM

[champ]

Diving into this thread now as my reread of DG begins tonight... really enjoying the posts so far...

I read DG only last year, after reading Kellanved's Reach, I wanted a Malazan fix so I hit this book up.

Which brings me on to this...

Abyss, on 07 February 2020 - 08:05 PM, said:

After KELLANVED'S REACH, this in Chapter 2 is actually v funny...

Quote

In response, Mallick Rel straightened. "High Fist Pormqual welcomes Fist Coltaine to Seven Cities, and wishes him well in his new command. The Seventh Army remains as one of the three original armies of the Malazan Empire, and the High Fist is confident that Fist Coltaine will honor their commendable history."

I'm reasonably sure no one picked up on the fact that the Empire originally had THREE armies, but one of them was the SEVENTH. Now we know why.

As soon as I read that part whilst reading DG last year I posted it in the KR section of the forum, it is a great hidden away little tidbit that you don't really think about without further context...

Abyss, on 10 February 2020 - 03:22 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 09 February 2020 - 08:07 PM, said:

On page 70 Duiker witnesses some spiritual divination involving Dryjhna.

The kid/medium says: "Two fountains of raging blood! Face to face. The blood is the same, the two are the same and salty waves shall was the shores of Raraku. The Holy Desert remembers its past!"

What the hell is that about! Fountains?

Zerv, on 09 February 2020 - 09:12 PM, said:

Assumed it was just foreshadowing Felisin vs. Tavore. If war is raging blood, I suppose the leaders might be fountains. Seems like kind of an odd metaphor (and perhaps inconsistent, if the blood refers to their heritage in the second sentence) though; might be more to it.

Aptorian, on 10 February 2020 - 04:18 AM, said:

I thought the blood could mean Tavore and Felisin. But they're different kinds of people and raging blood is hardly something you'd use to describe Tavore's Cold Iron.

Also took it as Felisin and Tavore.

The 'raging blood' thing i took as a reference to the fact they are family, ie: blood relatives, with a whole pile of mess issues between them.

I mean, ffs, Tavore's genius plan was 'throw my sister to the wolves and hope she doesn't get too raped, beaten, or otherwise abused until my barely trustworthy agent can execute an utterly half-assed plan to get her out of one of the worse places in the world'.

And Felisin, despite becoming aware of said plan, pretty much decides killing her sister is the best way to go. And that's even before Drynjha mind-fucks her.

Thus, 'raging'.

Aye, I thought it was Tavore and Felisin but you can twist it to meaning Dryjhna and Felisin too if you want to look at it poetically.

[Traveller]

Well it's just two fountains of blood, in opposition. Pretty obviously Felisin and Tavore imo.

Just read the section with Kalam on the Ragstopper. It a whole self contained short story on it's own, love it.

[Macros]

Just finished.

So much of this book I love, and so many characters I just want to reach through the book and fucking strangle. I think that's just good writing.


I still maintain Kalam should have topped Lassen, she's a shit Empress. Kellvaned would never have let Rel get his claws in there. Seven cities simply would not have risen, so much of the cluster fuck going in is Laseens inept rule.

I will not be budged on this opinion so don't bother starting

[Traveller]

What gets me is the 'unnamed soldiers'.

They crop up throughout the series; marines who get brought in, help out, and usually die fighting, with no further acknowledgement; no names even, but their efforts are often essential. They really help to put faces to the extras, the mass of unrecorded Fallen.

The Lieutenant on the Ragstopper being just the latest one.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 12 February 2020 - 11:17 PM

[champ]

Macros, on 12 February 2020 - 09:43 PM, said:

Just finished.

So much of this book I love, and so many characters I just want to reach through the book and fucking strangle. I think that's just good writing.


I still maintain Kalam should have topped Lassen, she's a shit Empress. Kellvaned would never have let Rel get his claws in there. Seven cities simply would not have risen, so much of the cluster fuck going in is Laseens inept rule.

I will not be budged on this opinion so don't bother starting

Great writing indeed, thinking about the series as a whole, it's hard to think of two people more hated than Pormqual and Rel...

Traveller, on 12 February 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

What gets me is the 'unnamed soldiers'.

They crop up throughout the series; marines who get brought in, help out, and usually die fighting, with no further acknowledgement; no names even, but their efforts are often essential. They really help to put faces to the extras, the mass of unrecorded Fallen.

The Lieutenant on the Ragstopper being just the latest one.

It goes back to the great writing by SE... characters that only appear for a few pages, he manages to make you care about them...

And your post instantly makes me think about Tavore's speech to the regulars at the end of tCG (chapter 24)...

Quote

When the Adjunct finally spoke, her voice carried firm on the wind. ‘Does anyone know you? You, who stood in the shadows of the heavies and the marines. Who are you?What is your tale? So many have seen you – marching past. Seen you, standing silent and unknown. Even now, your faces are almost lost beneath the rims of your helms.’

…

She reached the end of the ranks, turned her mount round and began retracing her route. ‘Who are you? I know who you are. What have you done? You have stayed with me since the very beginning…

…

‘You are the Unwitnessed, but I have seen what you see. I have felt what you feel. And I am as much a stranger to history as any of you.’

That whole speech is an amazing, powerful piece of writing, it messed me up first time reading it, definitely shed a man tear and it really relates to what you posted.

[Aptorian]

About a hundred sixty pages in.

I'm noticing some hints that suggest that Tavore didn't just throw Felisin to the wolves in a labour camp. The Malazan Guard Felisin meets seems to know Heboric and I suspect he's aware who Felisin is. So does Captain Sawark. I bet Baudin isn't the only one positioned to protect her while things level out. And then the war broke out.

[Traveller]

The convo with Kimloc and Fiddler, and Fiddler's musings shortly afterwards pretty much entirely describe the downfall and subsequent ascension of the Bridgeburners, all in a few lines. It's like a massive spoiler thrown right in there in plain sight, only so distant from those events that on a first read it's almost entirely just that - musings and conjecture. It's a great bit of sleight of hand by SE.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

The build-up in this book is slow, even for Malazan. 333 pages in and, if this were my first time reading, I'd say nothing has happened yet.

Of course, I'm not a first-time reader and I'm loving it so far. The slower, weaving introduction to 7 Cities feels on point for the culture of the place.

EDIT: Stormy! Gesler! Truth! My Boar boys.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 16 February 2020 - 04:17 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Quote

This, the historian realized as he rode on, was more than the simple lashing-out of a wounded, tormented beast. Coltaine clearly did not view the situation in that way. Perhaps he never did. The Fist was conducting a campaign.

Shivers.