[Abyss]

JPK, on 01 January 2020 - 08:46 PM, said:

... scene between Ganoes and Tavore discussing Felisin at the end of chapter 1 just gets darker and more chilling every time I read it.

IKR!
...knowing what's coming for her, and how young she seems...

[champ]

Aptorian, on 31 December 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

Quote

Now these ashes have grown cold, we open the old book.
These oil-stained pages recount the tales of the Fallen,
a frayed empire, words without warmth. The hearth
has ebbed, its gleam and life's sparks are but memories
against dimming eyes - what cast my mind, what hue my
thoughts as I open the Book of the Fallen
and breathe deep the scent of history?
Listen, then, to these words carried on that breath.
These tales are the tales of us all, again yet again.
We are history relived and that is all, without end that is all.

Again and again.

I love this little opening to go with tCG closing:

Quote

And now the page before us blurs.
An age is done.
The book must close.
We are abandoned to history.
Raise high one more time the tattered standard of the Fallen.
See through thedrifting smoke to the dark stains upon the fabric.
This is the blood of our lives, this is the payment of our deeds, all soon to beforgotten.
We were never what people could be.
We were only what we were.Remember us.

Two very powerful pieces of writing...


I love how the opening of GotM echoes with the closing of tCG with the conversation between WJ / Paran in GotM and then Fiddler and the boy who wants to be soldier in tCG. Story has come full circle.


Also, how on earth did we not figure out who ST/COT were when we are given this piece of info at the start of GotM:

Quote

The Emperor is dead!
So too his right hand - now cold, now severed!
But mark these dying shadows,
twinned and flowing bloody and beaten,
down and away from mortal sight...
From sceptre's rule dismissed,
from gild candelabra the light now fled,
from a hearth ringed in hard jewels,seven years this warmth has bled ...


The Emperor is dead.
So too his master'd companion, the rope cut clean.
But mark this burgeoning return -
faltering dark, the tattered shroud -
embracing children in Empire's dying light.
Hear now the dirge faint reprised,
before the sun's fall, this day spills red
on buckled earth, and in obsidian eyes
vengeance chimes seven times ...

It is SO loaded with info...

This post has been edited by champ: 02 January 2020 - 06:57 PM

[Abyss]

champ, on 02 January 2020 - 06:56 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 31 December 2019 - 11:27 PM, said:

Quote

Now these ashes have grown cold, we open the old book.
These oil-stained pages recount the tales of the Fallen,
a frayed empire, words without warmth. The hearth
has ebbed, its gleam and life's sparks are but memories
against dimming eyes - what cast my mind, what hue my
thoughts as I open the Book of the Fallen
and breathe deep the scent of history?
Listen, then, to these words carried on that breath.
These tales are the tales of us all, again yet again.
We are history relived and that is all, without end that is all.

Again and again.

I love this little opening to go with tCG closing:

Quote

And now the page before us blurs.
An age is done.
The book must close.
We are abandoned to history.
Raise high one more time the tattered standard of the Fallen.
See through thedrifting smoke to the dark stains upon the fabric.
This is the blood of our lives, this is the payment of our deeds, all soon to beforgotten.
We were never what people could be.
We were only what we were.Remember us.

Two very powerful pieces of writing...


I love how the opening of GotM echoes with the closing of tCG with the conversation between WJ / Paran in GotM and then Fiddler and the boy who wants to be soldier in tCG. Story has come full circle.

Agreed.
When i read the end of TCG for the first time, i immediately opened my ever present MBF ebook to reread that.

Quote

Also, how on earth did we not figure out who ST/COT were when we are given this piece of info at the start of GotM:

Quote

The Emperor is dead!
So too his right hand - now cold, now severed!
But mark these dying shadows,
twinned and flowing bloody and beaten,
down and away from mortal sight...
From sceptre's rule dismissed,
from gild candelabra the light now fled,
from a hearth ringed in hard jewels,seven years this warmth has bled ...


The Emperor is dead.
So too his master'd companion, the rope cut clean.
But mark this burgeoning return -
faltering dark, the tattered shroud -
embracing children in Empire's dying light.
Hear now the dirge faint reprised,
before the sun's fall, this day spills red
on buckled earth, and in obsidian eyes
vengeance chimes seven times ...

It is SO loaded with info...

Not bragging, but i got it. DG just confirmed.
ST's rant at Cots about revenge on Surly just before Sorry is possessed is also a huge hint.

[champ]

Abyss, on 02 January 2020 - 07:39 PM, said:

champ, on 02 January 2020 - 06:56 PM, said:

Also, how on earth did we not figure out who ST/COT were when we are given this piece of info at the start of GotM:

Quote

The Emperor is dead!
So too his right hand - now cold, now severed!
But mark these dying shadows,
twinned and flowing bloody and beaten,
down and away from mortal sight...
From sceptre's rule dismissed,
from gild candelabra the light now fled,
from a hearth ringed in hard jewels,seven years this warmth has bled ...


The Emperor is dead.
So too his master'd companion, the rope cut clean.
But mark this burgeoning return -
faltering dark, the tattered shroud -
embracing children in Empire's dying light.
Hear now the dirge faint reprised,
before the sun's fall, this day spills red
on buckled earth, and in obsidian eyes
vengeance chimes seven times ...

It is SO loaded with info...

Not bragging, but i got it. DG just confirmed.
ST's rant at Cots about revenge on Surly just before Sorry is possessed is also a huge hint.

I know I didn't get it straight away, I was about half way through, had an epiphany and it just all clicked together.

It's an interesting point though - when did people realise who ST/COT were? As the sooner you figure it out, the sooner you can start to understand GotM as a first time reader.

[Aptorian]

I'm halfway into chapter 2. The mages are getting a briefing before getting mauled.

Even not having read the later books, given the nature and power of the Malazan Empire, it's hard to believe that they wouldn't know exactly who and what Caladan Brood and Anomander Rake is. An ordinary deck of dragons reader would know. Basic military intelligence would uncover it over the course of a three year siege.

[Aptorian]

Okay another observation. Like Hairlock remarks:

"Imagine a lord who's kept thirty thousand Great Ravens well fed".

What have they been living off? They feed on chaos but I assume they have mundane needs as well. What the hell do you feed 30,000 condor sized birds year round? Does the Moon spawn bird seeds of Darkness?

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 January 2020 - 04:21 PM

[Aptorian]

Reached p. 78. The Siege of Pale is over.

And I'm drawn back to the debate about what the hell happened. We get Tay's version in MOI and I think we hear more later on but assuming Tattersail is reliable, there is something weird there.

I believe it's suspected that the demon that kills Nightchill is Tay's summoning. He kills her it's later implied because she was planning to betray the empire and steal Dragnipur. But why do it in the middle of the attack? And where did the demons attacking the army then come from? Are we to believe Tay lost control? Hard to believe. And similarly, who killed Akorynys? Who uses ice beside Nightchill? Whom is dead at this point?

I now propose that the magic bullet theory is wrong and there was a second shooter on a grassy hill. What if Kallor and some Crimson Guard mages were hiding nearby? I know it would have been revealed later but it would make a lot more sense than Tay attacking his own while facing down the Empire's most dangerous foe. Or Rake using demons and ice magic.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 January 2020 - 04:46 PM

[Aptorian]

Also, not a surprise, but I'm pleasantly surprised that Erikson's writing holds up 20 years later. The story flows really well and ever scene is pregnant with meaning and bread crumbs of information.

[Traveller]

I'm at the point where Rake describes the siege.. as him defending the scant weak occupants of moons spawn, while Tays unleashed a demon at his own. Do we find out later that Nightchill needed taking out? There are also conflicting views of the Bridgburners in the tunnels - everyone seems to think it was to kill them off, but doesn't it turn out later they were actually sent down there to protect them while the battle raged, and the collapse was an accident?

So far there have been about three views on what happened at Pale and I'm just still not clear whose telling the truth!

The writing really holds up, I've been swept right back in. It's very clever just how quickly you get drawn in to Whiskeyjack and the Bridgeburners with a few bits of info about their history and recollections, rather than what they are actually doing when they are introduced.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 05 January 2020 - 06:28 PM

[Aptorian]

It's suggested in a later book, maybe TTH, that Nightchill intended to take Dragnipur for herself to protect the gate of darkness because Rake wasn't killing enough to keep the wagon out of chaos reach.

[Traveller]

Would Tays have known that though? It seems from Tattersails view, and Rakes, that Tays blasted the cadre mages on purpose. There arent really any surviving soldiers to say either way.

Also thinking about it, the BBs/QB had the puppet made and prepared for Hairlock - did he expect to get half-incinerated?

This post has been edited by Traveller: 05 January 2020 - 06:32 PM

[Aptorian]

I believe Tay's shots at the other mages was deflections if we are to believe his version. But then again knowing Tay, it seems unbelievable that he's that see sloppy or careless.

Or we can chalk it down to a GOTMism.

[D'rek]

I think to some extent it is a pseudo-GotMism. Tayschrenn definitely gets more suave, powerful, and worldly in the later-written books. When Tattersail and Calot first go into the briefing tent Tayschrenn is using magic to flutter his cape... can you imagine later-Tayschrenn doing that, or even wearing a cape?

I think there must have been more to Nightchill originally planned. The whole mages-souls-go-into-Silverfox thing is kinda messy, IMO, and Silverfox honestly doesn't do *that* much in GotM/MoI, and doesn't do anything after - I don't really see any reason for needing Nightchill and Bellurdan in Silverfox rather than just Tattersail+Rhivi Spirits. All the "explanations" revising what happened at Pale come in MoI, too. Not to mention how Sister of Cold Nights/Nightchill is later spoken about like she's Draconus-tier, but nothing really comes out of that. I get the sense that an earlier outline/plan of the series would have had Nightchill being more relevant in MoI (perhaps a Silverfox-vs-Rake conflict) and that would tie in to getting some revelations about why Tayschreen+A'Karonys tried to stop her at Pale via a sudden betrayal because they knew she was secretly an Elder Ascendant and needed it to be a backstab, or something like that.

[D'rek]

Traveller, on 05 January 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

Also thinking about it, the BBs/QB had the puppet made and prepared for Hairlock - did he expect to get half-incinerated?

Quick Ben feels so different! Puppet-making, string-dancing, "awaken the seven within me"-ing, and at the same time he actually feels *less* cagey about stuff, like he explains things kinda directly almost. This feels more like Bottle than later-QB.

[Aptorian]

Started chapter 3, p 95, and made an obvious realization.

The reason why it appears the empire is out to neuter or even the destroy the 7th army and it's notable commander's, among them Dujek and the Bridge Burners is because they think Sorry has already had some kind of corrupting effect on the whole army.

Didn't remember the motive ever being presented that clearly.

Or at least the excuse for destroying Laseens potential rivals.

[Traveller]

I think that may be the excuse to those used to help destroy them, but the real reason is Laseens determination to kill all of the Emperors Old Guard; the Bridgeburners included due to their loyalty to commanders like Whiskeyjack and Dujek. Some of the other notable generals and Admirals 'disappeared' to avoid her retribution.

I can't remember the location unfortunately, but I'm sure it's made pretty clear that she's clearing out anyone who could be a threat to her rule. Also, it seems anyone of the Emperors era who still remembers her as Surly is on her hit list. In the discussion I'm thinking of it's mentioned that she would be making a huge mistake going against Dujek though as the result would be a civil war, as he has the bulk of the army behind him. (Possibly the talk between the Adjunct and Tays after meeting with Dujek?)

I'm really enjoying going through this again. That moment with Tattersails warren becoming closed in, pressed shut until she can no longer use it due to the presence of Tellan close by is an interesting moment. And that sorcerous column that blazes for hours after her run in with Bellurdan always sticks in my head - it's really eery the way it's described by those watching from miles away.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 05 January 2020 - 08:39 PM

[Keysi]

I was about to post in the general books forum that I've now found myself with a lot of time on my hands at work, so I'm either gonna do a reread (actually audiobook listen) of malazan or should I listen to a Tolstoy collection I managed to download for very cheap.

I think this thread answers my question 😀.

[Traveller]

You should definitely read instead of audiobook if you have the option.

[Keysi]

I do agree. I much prefer reading to listening for fiction, and I do still have the kids versions. But most of my free time will be while on guard at work. So it'll have to do. Luckily it's a reread. I'm also gonna be reading through
the that reread of the fallen in tor, which looks fun.

[Cyphon]

I'm so in for this. So much of the writing holds portent.

In the haze since I last read this I'd forgotten Paran and co knew about Sorry. The complexity of the plot and what its driving at is great.