[Prazec Goul]

Gamelon, on 16 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Why did you decide on Venesara, PG?

I'm getting picked up in a minute. I picked Ven cause I had a good read on him. Nothing too elaborate

[Prazec Goul]

Sorry for the double post didn't know if it sent

[Gait]

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Do we think at least one scum on the train?

Are we okay with Sheltatha being on every lynch train with minimal input?

Is Gait leading the thread?

To give my two cents here, I think the second question is by far the most interesting.

For the first question I don't think there's anything concrete enough at this stage. Half the game were on the train, so there's a fair chance. But train analysis tends to be much more useful after we actually hit scum; before that it's basically abstract speculation on where scum might or might not theoretically prefer to be. In this case it's also complicated by GL's self-vote and Rikkter's early hammer. I don't like to pigeonhole my thoughts by deciding where scum might be based on theory rather than the thread, basically.

For the third question there's not much I can say. I don't think I'm especially leading the thread any more than say Barg or other active players. I pushed GL certainly but I stand by that. You've said that you think the way I'm playing looks good I think everyone can understand mafia paranoia, but naturally there's no way to respond to an accusation of "you're playing well ". Except for thanks I guess!

The second question is the most concrete.

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 August 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

Ok, caught up. I like the reasoning on GL and see very little he has done to change the case against him. Useless townie versus coasting scum.

Let me say (with the risk of changing gameplay from here on out) that paired scum are more likely to do everything they can to be separate from each other and not linkable. If one scum goes down, the other does not want to be connected in any significant way. Thus, I do not think that looking for someone defending another person is all that useful of a strategy in this sort of game (and no, I do not buy that a 10 person game would have a symp).

I think that GL is a good bet for today, but I still want to hear from a few of the other accused alts.

Vote GL

Shel's vote yesterday is definitely easy; just a short "I agree" type thing. It's not a bad thing to agree with a case, but Ven for example provides much more in-depth analysis besides his agreement.

I also don't like the abstract theorizing about scum behaviour (as per the start of this post). I don't see that it really helps town putting it on thread and I don't like that it looks to direct us in a specific direction based ultimately on pure speculation. It's also very vague in general. Which accused alts do you want to hear from? What do you want to hear? It's very non-committal; it isn't going to bring any confrontation but it looks like a contribution.

So I agree that Shel seems to have coasted yesterday. Having said that, he did the opposite on day one; he was actively involved and I still like his initial pressure vote on Rikkter.

Along similar lines, I feel like both Rikkter and Kilava kept a very low profile yesterday.

Edit: grammar

This post has been edited by Gait: 16 August 2019 - 01:12 PM

[Rikkter]

OK, I am sufficiently awake now to respond.

The reason why I hammered was because I was going to sleep, and figured that I would not be around for timeout. I also didn't trust that (Prazec in particular) would actually hammer.

I stated why GL needed to go. If we didn't lynch him there would be too much wifom for the rest of the game on whether or not we should trust him.

Now Prazec's reveal and the no nk are very interesting. The Op did not mention other roles. It clearly stated that there were 2 killers and gave the RI pm. If Prazec is a killer, he could be just as convinced that Ven is town as he would already know that Ven was not the other killer. Very convenient to claim healer then and PI himself for the rest of the game.

[Rikkter]

Oh, and in response to why I wasn't around much yesterday. I was fairly convinced that I was getting a job and when I found out that I hadn't, I was in a pretty foul mood. As I told you RL.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 25 hours and 43 minutes remaining
8 Players still alive: Barghast, Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

5 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.

Players not voted: Barghast, Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

Freeze in 1h 43m

[Venesara]

Here, reading.

[Kilava]

I'm here, sorry I wasn't able to concentrate much on the game yesterday because of real life stuff, but I think I can manage from now on. Ever felt like you're going insane because you've only slept 1 hour for 48 hours and you're so tired you can't go to sleep? I finally got some sleep thank the Great Motato Head.

[Kilava]

With all the new information and Prazec's reveal, it's probably a good idea to go back and read everything again with that in mind.

[Venesara]

OK, I'm caught up. What is it now, like < 1hr till weekend freeze? Glad I'm not dead. PG's reveal has flipped a bunch of assumptions. Lots to think about, going to reread the whole thread a few times this weekend.

[Rikkter]

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm here, sorry I wasn't able to concentrate much on the game yesterday because of real life stuff, but I think I can manage from now on. Ever felt like you're going insane because you've only slept 1 hour for 48 hours and you're so tired you can't go to sleep? I finally got some sleep thank the Great Motato Head.

I can totally sympathize. I have the same problem and have cried about it before. I feel like there is something just missing in my brain that won't give the proper signal to start sleeping no matter how tired that I am. Have you tried sleeping pills? They help most of the time.

[Kilava]

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm here, sorry I wasn't able to concentrate much on the game yesterday because of real life stuff, but I think I can manage from now on. Ever felt like you're going insane because you've only slept 1 hour for 48 hours and you're so tired you can't go to sleep? I finally got some sleep thank the Great Motato Head.

I can totally sympathize. I have the same problem and have cried about it before. I feel like there is something just missing in my brain that won't give the proper signal to start sleeping no matter how tired that I am. Have you tried sleeping pills? They help most of the time.

Sleeping pills freak me out if I'm being honest, and since it's mostly stress related, I simply need to take some time to breathe and slow down. But that's hard to do when you know you have to get up in 4 hours and your brain doesn't seem to be working. But I should be fine now over the weekend. Thanks for the concern, I appreciate it.

[Gamelon]

A thought: If the killers did target Venesara, that would have removed a suspect from the (relatively short) lynch gang. Might actually increase the chance of both killers being off the train. But in any case, if PG is being honest, then that leaves us 2 killers from 5 suspects. That’s not bad odds.

[Rikkter]

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm here, sorry I wasn't able to concentrate much on the game yesterday because of real life stuff, but I think I can manage from now on. Ever felt like you're going insane because you've only slept 1 hour for 48 hours and you're so tired you can't go to sleep? I finally got some sleep thank the Great Motato Head.

I can totally sympathize. I have the same problem and have cried about it before. I feel like there is something just missing in my brain that won't give the proper signal to start sleeping no matter how tired that I am. Have you tried sleeping pills? They help most of the time.

Sleeping pills freak me out if I'm being honest, and since it's mostly stress related, I simply need to take some time to breathe and slow down. But that's hard to do when you know you have to get up in 4 hours and your brain doesn't seem to be working. But I should be fine now over the weekend. Thanks for the concern, I appreciate it.

Not that I am a doctor, although I like to play one from to time in the bedroom. Perhaps a mild anti anxiety med would do the trick then. None of the overhead of a sleeping pill, but just enough to make you not care about what has your mind wound up.

[Kilava]

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Kilava, on 16 August 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm here, sorry I wasn't able to concentrate much on the game yesterday because of real life stuff, but I think I can manage from now on. Ever felt like you're going insane because you've only slept 1 hour for 48 hours and you're so tired you can't go to sleep? I finally got some sleep thank the Great Motato Head.

I can totally sympathize. I have the same problem and have cried about it before. I feel like there is something just missing in my brain that won't give the proper signal to start sleeping no matter how tired that I am. Have you tried sleeping pills? They help most of the time.

Sleeping pills freak me out if I'm being honest, and since it's mostly stress related, I simply need to take some time to breathe and slow down. But that's hard to do when you know you have to get up in 4 hours and your brain doesn't seem to be working. But I should be fine now over the weekend. Thanks for the concern, I appreciate it.

Not that I am a doctor, although I like to play one from to time in the bedroom. Perhaps a mild anti anxiety med would do the trick then. None of the overhead of a sleeping pill, but just enough to make you not care about what has your mind wound up.

Yes, perhaps.

[Sheltatha Lore]

This is going to be an unpopular post, but I want you all to hear me out and think logically about it. I will try to keep it concise and high yield, and will discuss more as needed.


Conclusion: Barghast is scum.

Theory: Scum's essential traits, in order of importance, include:
( 1 ) Avoiding notice
( 2 ) Weakening town
( 3 ) Protecting other scum

Evidence: Barghast is a fully engaged, useful town member. He/she provides lynch targets, pressures people, and argues for/against cases. This is stereotypical of engaged town (or scum). So why Barghast?

Day 1: Begins by backing (not leading) the pressure against Rikkter, but also provides an alternative target, Kilava. Paints Rikkter as "jumpy" and accuses Kilava of "latching" onto Rikkter's reasoning. Votes Kilava first, but moves over to the Rikkter train as #4 (middle of the line).

Interesting reasoning, especially when Barghast says this (underline for emphasis):
"I see what they were saying. I disagree with the usefulness of it. But that's not my point. What bothers me is explaining this through potential intentions of partner scum. It's a miracle Rikkter didn't hurt themselves with that reach and you reacted as if they were providing good insight. I don't like it. "
The underlined describes what Barghast him/herself did with their case.


Day 2: At start of day, Barghast maintains suspicion of Rikkter and Kilava, but also adds on two other candidates, PG and GL. Does not immediately vote for any of the four.

Middle of day 2, see the following quotes:
"Based on D1, I'd be leaning towards Rikkter and Sheltatha being scum, but Gamelon's drive-by definitely pings the radar too. Moving on to D2."
"I'm currently considering Kilava, Gamelon, or Galayn for a vote. Not gonna do it yet because I don't want to put Galayn at L-2 and Kilava hasn't spoken today yet. But I'm around for a few more hours and planning to cast a vote before bedtime. I should also be around for the timeout. "

Barghast after this stream of consciousness does not vote. In fact, Kilava points out the lack of vote, and Barghast responds by saying they voted on D1 (not D2):
"I'd love you to explain the reasons that still stand, because the entire post in which you cast your vote against Sheltatha is about me. You also use me not voting as an argument, except at this point I have already voted - against you."

Barghast latter votes Kilava, and does not vote on the GL lynch train, claiming to wait till closer to time out.


Day 3: Barghast is the FIRST to speculate on roled town and nip-in-the-bud any speculation that his/her delayed vote for GL was scummy. Barghast proceeds to discuss many suspects, usually commenting on other's cases and thoughts, asking questions and for input from other people. Barghast is integral to the life and movement of the thread, however, provides no vote or central focus to his/her accusations. Again, Barghast plays the very fine line of being helpful, thoughtful, and directing without being outright scummy or overbearing.

Summary: I think Barghast says it best his/herself (bold and underline added):
"Ugh, Prazec's stream of consciousness puts me on the fence. He throws out a lot of shit to see what sticks. That looks way off to me because I like to do when I'm scum "


Vote Barghast

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. The clock has been frozen with 24 hours remaining.
8 Players still alive: Barghast, Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

5 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Barghast ( Sheltatha Lore )

Players not voted: Barghast, Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Venesara

The clock will unfreeze on monday around 12pm gmt.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 17 August 2019 - 10:51 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Path-Shaper, on 15 August 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

Venesara, on 15 August 2019 - 08:19 AM, said:

Barghast, on 15 August 2019 - 07:27 AM, said:

Oh, forgot to say - Gait's point about Galayn is interesting. I'd like to hear more from Galayn today. And from Venesara too - their last post was jumping on the Rikkter train.

Some shit came up at work and in life. The timing sucks ass and it makes it hard for me to focus on the game but I'll be lurking throughout the day and will try to contribute more in the evening.

Actually I thought I had started the Rikkter train until I reread, because I was listed before Shel by P-S.

Actually that's my bad, was lazy and didn't realise the order matters, basically should be reverse in-between the updates. I'll do it in order from now and will edit the existing updates.

All updates should be in order now, but please let me know in case anyone has noticed any more inconsistencies.

[Barghast]

Ah fuck. I want to address two points Sheltatha makes. One is spot on and I fucked up. The other is misguided to a suspicious extent.

First, my fuck-up. I was reading Sheltatha's post and thinking, what are you on about with me pushing for Rikkter. Apart from the D1 jab about them being jumpy I never read too much into Rikkter. But then I saw this (emphasis added):

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 August 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

Day 2: At start of day, Barghast maintains suspicion of Rikkter and Kilava, but also adds on two other candidates, PG and GL. Does not immediately vote for any of the four.

Middle of day 2, see the following quotes:
"Based on D1, I'd be leaning towards Rikkter and Sheltatha being scum, but Gamelon's drive-by definitely pings the radar too. Moving on to D2."
"I'm currently considering Kilava, Gamelon, or Galayn for a vote. Not gonna do it yet because I don't want to put Galayn at L-2 and Kilava hasn't spoken today yet. But I'm around for a few more hours and planning to cast a vote before bedtime. I should also be around for the timeout. "

I am an idiot. I meant to write I'm leaning towards KILAVA AND SHELTATHA. This is a longer quote from the same post:

Barghast, on 15 August 2019 - 06:16 PM, said:

Nearing the end of the day we have a bizarre exchange between Sheltatha and Kilava:

Sheltatha Lore, on 14 August 2019 - 09:30 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 August 2019 - 09:30 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 14 August 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

Kilava, on 14 August 2019 - 09:24 PM, said:

Barghast, on 14 August 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

I see what they were saying. I disagree with the usefulness of it. But that's not my point. What bothers me is explaining this through potential intentions of partner scum. It's a miracle Rikkter didn't hurt themselves with that reach and you reacted as if they were providing good insight. I don't like it.

The way I interpreted it was that Rikkter was putting pressure by voting for Gait and seeing if scum would freak out. As it happens Sheltatha reacted strongly, and then when you came after Rikkter and not voting for him, it's a clear vote for Sheltatha. Saying you don't like it doesn't really mean much, since you're not explaining what is wrong with the reasoning. Can you explain why? I'm big enough to admit if I missed something, so come on explain.

Besides the fact that your love triangle includes 3 scum in a 10 person game?

LOL what how do you get to 3 scum? What kind of maths is that?

That is what I was asking you. Your scenario assumes I am scum rushing to aid Gait and that Barghast defending me makes him number 3.

Kilava rationalizes standing behind Rikkter and Sheltatha bends over backwards to pretend they don't understand the point. This reads like a ham-fisted attempt at distancing - Kilava's vote that put Shel at a fairly safe L-4 fits that too.

Based on D1, I'd be leaning towards Rikkter and Sheltatha being scum, but Gamelon's drive-by definitely pings the radar too. Moving on to D2.

I was arguing that Kilava looks scummy and they're distancing so hard with Sheltatha, I believe they could be partners. I hope it's clear in context and the longer quote shows it was just a brain fart on my part. But I fucked up and I apologize, because it's a stupid mistake and it's gonna muddy the waters now.

Now, moving on to where Shel misses by a mile:

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 August 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

Barghast latter votes Kilava, and does not vote on the GL lynch train, claiming to wait till closer to time out.


Day 3: Barghast is the FIRST to speculate on roled town and nip-in-the-bud any speculation that his/her delayed vote for GL was scummy.

In what world is that scummy? When I was going to sleep, Galayn was at L-2 and we had like 10 or 11 hours until timeout. I said it straight that even though I'm leaning Kilava (not Rikkter ), I think we have to lynch Galayn because we cannot afford to go into late-game with the baggage of their self-vote. Too much doubt. But I was in no rush, which I also said explicitly. Why end the day quickly if someone still might bring new information or an interesting case to the table? And around the scheduled timeout we did have three people on thread: me, Prazec, and Gait. And we even discussed why Gait and Rikkter rushed the lynch.

And finally:

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 August 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

Barghast proceeds to discuss many suspects, usually commenting on other's cases and thoughts, asking questions and for input from other people. Barghast is integral to the life and movement of the thread, however, provides no vote or central focus to his/her accusations. Again, Barghast plays the very fine line of being helpful, thoughtful, and directing without being outright scummy or overbearing.

I mean, that's just playing Mafia. Over the development of the game I've pushed three themes and I still stand by them (with a caveat, but that in a second):
1. Kilava looked scummy on D1 and did nothing to exonerate themselves on D2. If they're scum, then I think Shel is their partner.
2. Gamelon would be my secondary candidate for a killer. I don't have a good read as to who could be in cahoots with them.
3. Galayn had to go because their self-vote introduced too much ambiguity.

The caveat is I still have to reread the thread with Prazec's reveal in mind. That could change a lot. I will try to do it today but not sure if I'll have time so it might need to wait until tomorrow.

[Gait]

To briefly chime in on some of the points made over the weekend:

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 02:09 PM, said:

If Prazec is a killer, he could be just as convinced that Ven is town as he would already know that Ven was not the other killer. Very convenient to claim healer then and PI himself for the rest of the game.

This is possible but I think it's unlikely. It's still early in the game - why now? Was PG really getting enough pressure that a killer might fake reveal? It draws a lot of attention and I don't really see PG deciding to try and coast on a reveal for the rest of the game. Very very ballsy if so.

Regarding Barg, they've commented on various issues but I don't see them really "throwing out a lot of shit to see what sticks". If anything I'd say they're on the opposite end of the spectrum: they've had a boner for Kilava since day one that has stayed consistent to today. Who else is still pushing the same suspect as day one? Barg has a more obvious central focus than basically any other player, imo.

I also think there's a decent gap between Rikkter's speculation and Barg's case; Barg's is more concretely rooted in people's behaviour on thread and less hypothetical. So I don't see a huge hypocrisy here honestly. His voting behaviour has bugged me a bit but otherwise I've seen the positive side that you've presented.

Like others, I'll hopefully find time for a proper re-read.