Malazan Empire: Antifa and the Alt movements - Malazan Empire

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Antifa and the Alt movements Domestic Terrorism?

#1 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:00 PM

https://itsgoingdown...-the-alt-right/

wondering what peoples thoughts were on these groups, obviously arming with quick-drying cement is a whole new escalation that will probably end being met with force will ignite a powder keg in the alt political movements?

What really is their political agenda ?

and now this level threats...

https://bigleaguepol...lind-attendees/
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#2 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:42 PM

They're just a different kind of political thugs, pretending that their morally righteous cause excuses their behavior. They're like political football hooligans only now they've moved up to out right terror.
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#3 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 06:12 PM

Wear a mask and people will show off their inner bullies. Names don't reflect the truth now. The fascists call themselves anti-fascists.
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#4 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 06:37 PM

Antifa are good, the quick drying cement thing is an invention of alt-right grifters taken at face value and exploited by the notably racist and corrupt Portland PD -- who have a history of siding with the alt right every step of the way -- and neo Nazis and their facilitators deserve whatever happens to them.

The fact is Antifa are actually doing what gun nut poseurs think they're doing -- they understand the existential threat actual fascism and its adherents pose and they are acting accordingly -- and that tolerating white nationalism and fascism is antithetical to liberty. It's not shocking when the freedom fighter cosplayers on the right get their back up in the face of actual action, since it shows their whole thing for the mockery it is, and it's not shocking Nico is eating up the cement lie given where he gets his news. It's a bit more disconcerting to see people who ostensibly don't favor the fascists misunderstand the gravity of the moment.
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#5 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 07:38 PM

Where I live, at least, the Antifa are largely worse than the right, and that's saying something. As far as I am concerned, both parties belong locked away. The right here has gone political and pretends to be playing by the rules, the occasional murder on regional politicians aside, while the Antifa are enjoying their free time by setting cars on fire and punching in shop windows. I can't tell who is fucking up people's lives more at the moment.
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#6 User is offline   Beaver Killia 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:35 PM

Iíd punch em both.
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#7 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 10:46 PM

How do you use quick drying cement as a weapon. I must know
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#8 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:16 PM

Let's say you're on the top of a mesa waiting for your prey to come by -- in this instance, we'll use a road runner as an example. Well first you peer through a telescope at the desert trails until you see the roadrunner approach in the distance. Then you take out your pad and pencil and calculate -- using the distance and speed of roadrunner vs. the mesa's height and the effects of gravity on wet cement. You mix the cement, and when the roadrunner is exactly the right distance away, you pour....coating him in cement, which quickly dries around him, locking him into place. Dinner is served.

Now, if you do all this and yet for some reason the roadrunner zooms past, as if the cement never got him, what you're gonna wanna do is travel to the exact location the cement was supposed to land and use your telescope to peer straight up along the cement's intended trajectory. You'll soon have your answer.
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#9 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:21 PM

View PostNicodimas, on 01 July 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

https://itsgoingdown...-the-alt-right/

wondering what peoples thoughts were on these groups, obviously arming with quick-drying cement is a whole new escalation that will probably end being met with force will ignite a powder keg in the alt political movements?

What really is their political agenda ?

and now this level threats...

https://bigleaguepol...lind-attendees/

Yeah this is all bollocks and not true, I'd ask you to please be less credulous but that would dilute the Nicodimas brand


View PostAptorian, on 01 July 2019 - 05:42 PM, said:

They're just a different kind of political thugs, pretending that their morally righteous cause excuses their behavior. They're like political football hooligans only now they've moved up to out right terror.

View Postnacht, on 01 July 2019 - 06:12 PM, said:

Wear a mask and people will show off their inner bullies. Names don't reflect the truth now. The fascists call themselves anti-fascists.


The point of antifa acting violently is that fascists and Nazis have an ideology of strength over the Lesser, the chosen outgroup. They gain power by excluding and otherising the outgroup and claiming they are both weak and a threat as per the classic Eco quote. To punch a Nazi, to see them break down in bewilderment at being resisted and the truth revealed that they are nothing but sad little white boys playing at persercution, does more to weaken the fascist cause than any number of calls for decorum or pleas to just give them a platform to spread their ideas debate them in a civilised fashion because this time it'll work, just ignore every other time it's been tried. Also bullying Nazis and facists is good and correct because they want everyone who is a racial or sexual minority and every disabled person to be literally murdered, as a base and immutable part of their beliefs.


View PostPuck, on 01 July 2019 - 07:38 PM, said:

Where I live, at least, the Antifa are largely worse than the right, and that's saying something. As far as I am concerned, both parties belong locked away. The right here has gone political and pretends to be playing by the rules, the occasional murder on regional politicians aside, while the Antifa are enjoying their free time by setting cars on fire and punching in shop windows. I can't tell who is fucking up people's lives more at the moment.

It's the Nazis and facists, Puck.


View PostCause, on 01 July 2019 - 10:46 PM, said:

How do you use quick drying cement as a weapon. I must know

They're apparently putting it in milkshakes, according to idiots who don't understand that killing them creates a martyr while milkshaking them creates a laughingstock.
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#10 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:46 PM

https://www.oregonli...n-saturday.html

There is a tweet in the link (by portland police) about the quick dry cement mixed in milkshakes


There is usually a small number of righwing demonstrators (like in tens) and a much larger number of antifa protestors (in hundreds).
Each one gets off the other while the people caught up in the fracas suffer.

Portland is a consistent left-wing town. To think that police (and the mayor) support the crazy-right is not credible.
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#11 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 11:55 PM

As was previously pointed out, Portland Police have clearly chosen a side, and it isn't a side of anyone that doesn't have the complexion of cottage cheese.

https://medium.com/@...fa-87a24ce4012a
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#12 User is offline   nacht 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:07 AM

The tweet does not say that Andy Ngo was hit by a milkshake containing quick dry cement.


https://twitter.com/...n-saturday.html


But it does say that they have information that such a mix *might* have been used in some manner. Maybe they were not thrown against people (hopefuly!)

It is not uncommon for the police to collect leads by asking people for assistance.


Whether the cement was used or not, the antifa have caused trouble and inconvenience, that is for sure. Just because it is lesser (than say hurting somebody who was not violent, which btw which they did) does not excuse this kind of behavior.
Even a real milkshake is heavy and can hurt when thrown with force.
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#13 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:16 AM

Being a Nazi or a fascist is inherently violent, because your identity revolves around the inevitable destruction of the Other, which can be categorised as 'not white, straight, able-bodied or male*

*white straight able-bodied women are allowed but not permitted to speak'


Also please do not trust the US police, evidence proves they lie all the damn time.
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#14 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:25 AM

With respect, it's a distanced, absolutely useless definition of violence that includes the throwing of milkshakes but excludes the overt promotion of white supremacy, nationalism, and fascism (which are inherently genocidal) of Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, and the like as long as it doesn't immediately physically hurt anybody (which isn't a guarantee), or the (barely) covert laundering of their ideology through alt-lite publications like Quillette. Andy Ngo's grift empowers that ideology, endangers people, and as long as he keeps it up he is an existential threat. He is violent.

As far as Portland PD go, we don't have to hypothesize.

This post has been edited by worry: 02 July 2019 - 12:36 AM

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#15 User is offline   King Lear 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:49 AM

An Oregon senator was threatening to shoot cops just last week, but let's all handwring over a couple of moist fashy boys.
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#16 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 07:41 AM

My main concern with mandated violence against fascists is that it validates them to an extent. Ideally I'd want to advocate re-education as a solution - but then the pragmatist in me notes that we're a ways past that point now.
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#17 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:03 AM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 02 July 2019 - 07:41 AM, said:

My main concern with mandated violence against fascists is that it validates them to an extent. Ideally I'd want to advocate re-education as a solution - but then the pragmatist in me notes that we're a ways past that point now.


Re-education camps?

Jokes aside though I think for most of them its too late. For the guys that join up at 18 when their life is a bit shit and maybe slowly drift away from the movement as their lives improve their is a chance. For the kids born into the movement and raised in it there is almost no seeing out of it. Its like any religeion or perhaps cult is better. The live in their own bubble, interact only with others in the group, read their own news, their own magazines. For people who hear that everything from 9/11, the Iraq war, the recession, losing their jobs (for showing up with swastikas on their necks) are caused by a conspiracy of jews, commies, black people, muslims, brown people and the gays its a lost cause. The have 'evidence' that its all true.

I'm still not familiar enough with Antifa to know of they do good work or are just a bunch of thugs. I suspect even if they do good work though, like any organization that supports direct action it must attract its fair share of loonies who just want to rough people up whoever they are,
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#18 User is offline   Primateus 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 09:15 AM

I am not opposed to punching nazis/facists! I say it openly and I say it proudly! I am not interested in talking with them, I don't want to discuss their opinions. Because when you do that, about anything, you're automatically opening up to a discussion about not just the cons, but the pros of whatever you're discussing.
I don't want to talk about the pros of facism or nazism, there are none!

So let's make something absolutely fucking clear!

Facism and/or Nazism are not something that needs to be discussed on "the marketplace of ideas"!

We've done that already and we decided to fucking kill them!

And the difference between antifa and facists is clear and simple; Antifa wants facists to go away and stop being facists. The facists wants whoever is their target of the day to stop existing!
Screw you all, and have a nice day!

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:39 PM

Absolutely spot on Prim.
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#20 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 02 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

View PostCause, on 02 July 2019 - 09:03 AM, said:

Jokes aside though I think for most of them its too late.


Yeah, on balance, I think you're right.
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