[Maark Abbott]

Mentalist, on 23 February 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 February 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 23 February 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

There just seemed way to much filler in this book compared to others.

The first book in that series was already 80% filler. How is it feasibly possible for there to be a book in that set with even more filler!? HOW, I ASK THEE!?

Book 2 brought it down to about 73% filler, and added shardplate duels.

I'm guessing oathbringer swings the ratio the other way.
I'll find out in the summer once Oathbringer comes out in mmpb

The filler to book ratio is TOO DAMN HIGH

[Gabriele]

Maark Abbott, on 25 February 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 23 February 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 February 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 23 February 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

There just seemed way to much filler in this book compared to others.

The first book in that series was already 80% filler. How is it feasibly possible for there to be a book in that set with even more filler!? HOW, I ASK THEE!?

Book 2 brought it down to about 73% filler, and added shardplate duels.

I'm guessing oathbringer swings the ratio the other way.
I'll find out in the summer once Oathbringer comes out in mmpb

The filler to book ratio is TOO DAMN HIGH

TOR probably told him to give WoT a run for its money and make that monster 20 doorstoppers. "And we mean the real big You Can Kill a Burglar With Those tomes, Bran." - Ah well, I can always add another chapter of Kaladin brooding and Shallan not knowing who she is.

[QuickTidal]

Maark Abbott, on 25 February 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 23 February 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 February 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 23 February 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

There just seemed way to much filler in this book compared to others.

The first book in that series was already 80% filler. How is it feasibly possible for there to be a book in that set with even more filler!? HOW, I ASK THEE!?

Book 2 brought it down to about 73% filler, and added shardplate duels.

I'm guessing oathbringer swings the ratio the other way.
I'll find out in the summer once Oathbringer comes out in mmpb

The filler to book ratio is TOO DAMN HIGH

I feel like a lot of the so-called "filler" in the Stromlight series is not that...but it's not relevant to the story NOW is all. It's a 10 book series with 3 purposeful and distinct 3-volume acts and a finale (book 10). As such, much of what we might find to be chaff now, won't be chaff when we get to book 10. If that makes sense? This is not to say that this is a good thing mind you (I struggled with Oathrbringer more than any other Sanderson work to date), but perhaps those who read all 10 at once when they are out, will have a different experience with regards to "filler" than we do now with only 3 books out?

That said, NOTHING in a Sanderson book will ever reach the filler that Jordan got up to in the latter WoT books....nothing.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 25 February 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 25 February 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 23 February 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 February 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 23 February 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

There just seemed way to much filler in this book compared to others.

The first book in that series was already 80% filler. How is it feasibly possible for there to be a book in that set with even more filler!? HOW, I ASK THEE!?

Book 2 brought it down to about 73% filler, and added shardplate duels.

I'm guessing oathbringer swings the ratio the other way.
I'll find out in the summer once Oathbringer comes out in mmpb

The filler to book ratio is TOO DAMN HIGH

I feel like a lot of the so-called "filler" in the Stromlight series is not that...but it's not relevant to the story NOW is all. It's a 10 book series with 3 purposeful and distinct 3-volume acts and a finale (book 10). As such, much of what we might find to be chaff now, won't be chaff when we get to book 10. If that makes sense? This is not to say that this is a good thing mind you (I struggled with Oathrbringer more than any other Sanderson work to date), but perhaps those who read all 10 at once when they are out, will have a different experience with regards to "filler" than we do now with only 3 books out?

That said, NOTHING in a Sanderson book will ever reach the filler that Jordan got up to in the latter WoT books....nothing.

Raises an interesting point... Maark, Ment, SBen... example of filler?

[Maark Abbott]

Abyss, on 25 February 2019 - 07:48 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 February 2019 - 03:01 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 25 February 2019 - 08:35 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 23 February 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 February 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 23 February 2019 - 04:10 PM, said:

There just seemed way to much filler in this book compared to others.

The first book in that series was already 80% filler. How is it feasibly possible for there to be a book in that set with even more filler!? HOW, I ASK THEE!?

Book 2 brought it down to about 73% filler, and added shardplate duels.

I'm guessing oathbringer swings the ratio the other way.
I'll find out in the summer once Oathbringer comes out in mmpb

The filler to book ratio is TOO DAMN HIGH

I feel like a lot of the so-called "filler" in the Stromlight series is not that...but it's not relevant to the story NOW is all. It's a 10 book series with 3 purposeful and distinct 3-volume acts and a finale (book 10). As such, much of what we might find to be chaff now, won't be chaff when we get to book 10. If that makes sense? This is not to say that this is a good thing mind you (I struggled with Oathrbringer more than any other Sanderson work to date), but perhaps those who read all 10 at once when they are out, will have a different experience with regards to "filler" than we do now with only 3 books out?

That said, NOTHING in a Sanderson book will ever reach the filler that Jordan got up to in the latter WoT books....nothing.

Raises an interesting point... Maark, Ment, SBen... example of filler?

Examples of filler book 1: Any scene with kalafringe moping about like a kid waiting for an MCR concert.

Any scene involving that girl who served so little purpose that her name escapes me but had the magic circley things.

Every single one of the interludes.

It's well and good to say "stuff here will make sense in context of the additional books to come" but if it's conveyed as filler now, it gives me no impetus to read on to a point where they might become relevant.

The only parts in Way of Sleep that I found enjoyable in any sense were Giant Enemy Crab and the final battle. The characters in that series are so flat and lifeless and the worldbuilding so slapdash and haphazard that I don't think any amount of further books for stuff to make sense in the context of can save it.

[Maark Abbott]

Addendum (cos editing on work PCs breaks replies): I found the later WOT books to be nowhere near as painful a grind as WoK.

[Abyss]

Maark Abbott, on 26 February 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

Abyss, on 25 February 2019 - 07:48 PM, said:

...

Raises an interesting point... Maark, Ment, SBen... example of filler?

Examples of filler book 1: Any scene with kalafringe moping about like a kid waiting for an MCR concert.

Any scene involving that girl who served so little purpose that her name escapes me but had the magic circley things.

Every single one of the interludes.

It's well and good to say "stuff here will make sense in context of the additional books to come" but if it's conveyed as filler now, it gives me no impetus to read on to a point where they might become relevant.

The only parts in Way of Sleep that I found enjoyable in any sense were Giant Enemy Crab and the final battle. The characters in that series are so flat and lifeless and the worldbuilding so slapdash and haphazard that I don't think any amount of further books for stuff to make sense in the context of can save it.

So... 'filler'. I define filler in a fiction book as chunks of story that contribute little/nothing to the overall story and or drag the reader away from it. Filler isn't by definition 'bad'... a side story that has nothing to do with the bigger story can be awesome, but for the purpose of this discussion let's go with boring/useless tangential or utterly separate as 'bad'. The author needed to hit 400 pages in the mmpb and there it is.

I'm right there with you that Kaladin's moping is utterly overdone, but it is an aspect of the character. The guy is prone to full blown depression... that's the character. I wish Brandon didn't spend so bloody much time on that aspect, but there it is. I can't call character development 'filler'. I wish the author did less of this specific bit because i think the readers got the point and one more scene of Kal whining about whatever makes my teeth itch, but it is there for a purpose, not just to pad out the page count.

Magic circle thingies girl... Shallan? Lift? I'm honestly not sure who you mean there. Lift has entire storylines utterly separate from the rest of the characters... most of which were standalone novellas before the TSA books were released. i happen to think they're some of the bestest parts of the book, but if you didn't like the character then sure, i could see someone who is cold and dead inside calling that filler. If you mean Shallan... i'm stumped, because while i do find portions of her storyline drag, all of it tends to lead somewhere either in each book's finale or the character arc. I think Brandon tends to make the same point with Shallan 2 or 3 times that he could do once and move along, but it's rarely pointless.

The interludes in the first two books were worldbuilding. You dig it or you don't, but that's why it's there. They show the reader what's going on elsewhere because this story is about a world, not just the handful of ongoing pov characters.
...and that said, ALL of the interludes do lead somewhere in the third book. I hardly have an exhaustive recall of the books but to my thinkymeatz nothing was left dangling by then. So, not filler. If you're impatient with an author playing a long game... all of three books by an author who writes doorstoppers faster than a toddler draws a happy face... then yah, i can see why you'd say that but you would be wrong ... and it's your opinion but, still wrong and you're wrongly entitled to be simmered in wrongsauce it.

[QuickTidal]

I'm still of the mind that Lift will be the MVP of this entire 10 book series. She's a JOY to read about in every single appearance.

She reminds me of Ivy in the Dresden Books.

And of course now I want a Lift and Ivy team up book where they steal/eat pancakes and discuss the intricacies of the universe.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 February 2019 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm still of the mind that Lift will be the MVP of this entire 10 book series. She's a JOY to read about in every single appearance.

She reminds me of Ivy in the Dresden Books.

And of course now I want a Lift and Ivy team up book where they steal/eat pancakes and discuss the intricacies of the universe.

And while you're at it, arrange for Neil Gaiman to write a third volume where Delerium shows up to hang with them.


I tend to agree that in the long run of however many books TSA will be, Lift will turn out to be a big deal to the story.

...but she's an absolute joy to read already. Hence why even when her story may be be a novella i already read, i have to reread.

[Chance]

Maark Abbott, on 26 February 2019 - 08:45 AM, said:

Addendum (cos editing on work PCs breaks replies): I found the later WOT books to be nowhere near as painful a grind as WoK.

I quite enjoyed WoK and WoR at least on a re-read but OB is heinous compared to those, I was going to say that I'd rather re-read any WoT book rather then OB but that isn't true Heart of Winter, Crossroad of Twilight and Knife of Dream has just the same problems OB does. Some storylines are gold, some scenes are brilliant but most of these books are just a tedious grind. Not necessarily filler but Sanderson truly likes making the same point over and over again and calling it character development while usually being blatantly obvious about where he is going.

[Maark Abbott]

Abyss, on 26 February 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 26 February 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

Abyss, on 25 February 2019 - 07:48 PM, said:

...

Raises an interesting point... Maark, Ment, SBen... example of filler?

Examples of filler book 1: Any scene with kalafringe moping about like a kid waiting for an MCR concert.

Any scene involving that girl who served so little purpose that her name escapes me but had the magic circley things.

Every single one of the interludes.

It's well and good to say "stuff here will make sense in context of the additional books to come" but if it's conveyed as filler now, it gives me no impetus to read on to a point where they might become relevant.

The only parts in Way of Sleep that I found enjoyable in any sense were Giant Enemy Crab and the final battle. The characters in that series are so flat and lifeless and the worldbuilding so slapdash and haphazard that I don't think any amount of further books for stuff to make sense in the context of can save it.

So... 'filler'. I define filler in a fiction book as chunks of story that contribute little/nothing to the overall story and or drag the reader away from it. Filler isn't by definition 'bad'... a side story that has nothing to do with the bigger story can be awesome, but for the purpose of this discussion let's go with boring/useless tangential or utterly separate as 'bad'. The author needed to hit 400 pages in the mmpb and there it is.

I'm right there with you that Kaladin's moping is utterly overdone, but it is an aspect of the character. The guy is prone to full blown depression... that's the character. I wish Brandon didn't spend so bloody much time on that aspect, but there it is. I can't call character development 'filler'. I wish the author did less of this specific bit because i think the readers got the point and one more scene of Kal whining about whatever makes my teeth itch, but it is there for a purpose, not just to pad out the page count.

Magic circle thingies girl... Shallan? Lift? I'm honestly not sure who you mean there. Lift has entire storylines utterly separate from the rest of the characters... most of which were standalone novellas before the TSA books were released. i happen to think they're some of the bestest parts of the book, but if you didn't like the character then sure, i could see someone who is cold and dead inside calling that filler. If you mean Shallan... i'm stumped, because while i do find portions of her storyline drag, all of it tends to lead somewhere either in each book's finale or the character arc. I think Brandon tends to make the same point with Shallan 2 or 3 times that he could do once and move along, but it's rarely pointless.

The interludes in the first two books were worldbuilding. You dig it or you don't, but that's why it's there. They show the reader what's going on elsewhere because this story is about a world, not just the handful of ongoing pov characters.
...and that said, ALL of the interludes do lead somewhere in the third book. I hardly have an exhaustive recall of the books but to my thinkymeatz nothing was left dangling by then. So, not filler. If you're impatient with an author playing a long game... all of three books by an author who writes doorstoppers faster than a toddler draws a happy face... then yah, i can see why you'd say that but you would be wrong ... and it's your opinion but, still wrong and you're wrongly entitled to be simmered in wrongsauce it.

Worldbuilding that adds no content or overall quality to the book is infodumping, and it's inherently a negative aspect of a book. There are ways to do it that are interesting, and this was not one of them. The fact any of these meandering page-padders take until book three to reach any fruition is a maddening thought.

I've read Malazan, so the long game is no stranger to me. But when it's gone in a way that builds no interest and adds no value to what I'm reading, well, it's not good. I return again to my assertion that he doesn't care overmuch about the contents of this series, because that was the feeling I got from how slapdash and superglued together everything felt. Bear in mind that until Sleep of Kings I was quite a Sanderson fan, and that WoK was the novel I would say is responsible for me not only falling off of that wagon, but also that it entirely soured me to his future output. And it takes something spectacularly bad to manage that (though at least unlike certain other bizarrely popular modern novels, I finished WoK, because I am a huge masochist).

And yeah, it was Shallow who was that circley girl (I don't think there was an Lift in the one I read, the name rings zero bells at all). But literally her entire character and arc dragged, where at least Kalafringe had Giant Enemy Crab to give him at least one scene worth reading. As before, an author can play a long game with a character and that's fine, but if the character as an entity is as interesting as the Neutral Planet, then you'd better believe Captain Brannigan is going to move into orbit on them.

Ultimately the book could have been 800 pages shorter and still told me everything it did. None of the filler parts or characters gave me any impetus at all to continue, there was never a sense of 'what happens next?'. The question as I read it was always 'when does this get better?' and that question persisted right until the final word of the final sentence of the book itself.

[Cause]

I have complained for years and on this forum that filler and bloat seems to be a problem that is infecting fantasy as a genre. LotR was a trilogy so every fantasy should be a trilogy. Now ten book series are becoming the new standard. Problem is they seem be to goals to reach for, rather than motivated by the story the authors really want to write.

So much of kaladins charater development in the books is filler because its so unbelievable repetitive. In book one alone we start with a broken down man (slavery will do that to you), learn that he suffered from depression as a child, and see him slowly rebuild himself. Then he backslides, then he rebuilds himself and bridge four and saves the day. This is great stuff! The backslide was a bit annoying but perhaps believable. One doesn't just fix themselves. However in book 3 he backslides again. He backslides again even with people telling him he did all he can and with the support of bridge 4 and Syl, and then he goes bloody catatonic. Then he miraculously recovers but still not enough to to say the 4th ideal. Is it filler, or poor storytelling. We can discuss this sure but the result is the feeling that slogbringer ould have been cut in half.

This all ignores his constant back and forth that racism is wrong, I hate all light eyes, okay maybe some are honorable, but the one who betrayed me was a lighteyes etc etc.

This ignores shallans inability to even know who she is. For 3 books and counting! She is crazy I get that. However crazy doesn't know its crazy that's the point. She knows she is lying to herself wcich falls short of true self deception although we are supposed to be afraid that she could forget the differemce.

I mean I like that the spren are attracted to people like this. Power isn't free and there is a cost. However Kaladins depression seems to not be apart of his bond with Syl, though Shallans self deception is. I like when the on spren freaks out when he hears their is an ashbringer around. 'Has she started breaking/destroying things' he asks, 'she will'. It seems to imply that its their nature, that anyone who can attract an ashbringer will inevitably be drawn to breaking things. That one sentence hints at more nuance than 400 pages of kaladin dealing with racism.

[Maark Abbott]

Cause, on 27 February 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

I have complained for years and on this forum that filler and bloat seems to be a problem that is infecting fantasy as a genre. LotR was a trilogy so every fantasy should be a trilogy. Now ten book series are becoming the new standard. Problem is they seem be to goals to reach for, rather than motivated by the story the authors really want to write.

So much of kaladins charater development in the books is filler because its so unbelievable repetitive. In book one alone we start with a broken down man (slavery will do that to you), learn that he suffered from depression as a child, and see him slowly rebuild himself. Then he backslides, then he rebuilds himself and bridge four and saves the day. This is great stuff! The backslide was a bit annoying but perhaps believable. One doesn't just fix themselves. However in book 3 he backslides again. He backslides again even with people telling him he did all he can and with the support of bridge 4 and Syl, and then he goes bloody catatonic. Then he miraculously recovers but still not enough to to say the 4th ideal. Is it filler, or poor storytelling. We can discuss this sure but the result is the feeling that slogbringer ould have been cut in half.

This all ignores his constant back and forth that racism is wrong, I hate all light eyes, okay maybe some are honorable, but the one who betrayed me was a lighteyes etc etc.

This ignores shallans inability to even know who she is. For 3 books and counting! She is crazy I get that. However crazy doesn't know its crazy that's the point. She knows she is lying to herself wcich falls short of true self deception although we are supposed to be afraid that she could forget the differemce.

I mean I like that the spren are attracted to people like this. Power isn't free and there is a cost. However Kaladins depression seems to not be apart of his bond with Syl, though Shallans self deception is. I like when the on spren freaks out when he hears their is an ashbringer around. 'Has she started breaking/destroying things' he asks, 'she will'. It seems to imply that its their nature, that anyone who can attract an ashbringer will inevitably be drawn to breaking things. That one sentence hints at more nuance than 400 pages of kaladin dealing with racism.

It's Goku syndrome. Much as Goku takes three seasons to power up a Spirit Bomb, Sanderson seems to take 900+ pages to actually move that one step towards something resembling plot or character progression.

[John II]

Cause said: Every series should be a trilogy (paraphrased).
Too lazy to use the quote function as I am using a phone atm.
I couldn't disagree more. With the exception of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn, every trilogy I've read has been poorly paced. Examples include Brent Weeks' Night Angel and Brian McClellan's Powder Mage. I also think Pat Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicle will end up in the same vein. In both the series I mentioned the problem appears to be that the author reached the beginning of the third book with not a lot having happened, so they have to rush the third book, then find that the third book is only halfway through and they've finished one or two plotlines with the rest still to go. Then the rest of the book is sort of boring. Those series I believe would have been better as quartets; Daniel Abraham's Long Price springs to mind as an excellent quartet.
Regarding long series being longwinded and filler-heavy, I would point out that with longer series it is much easier to become immersed in the world. For example, I am at Toll the Hounds and haven't really got sick of the ongoing story.
Regarding the original topic, I disagree there too. With the way Sanderson writes (and maybe because I read Warbreaker and Mistborn before tWoK), I get the impression that every loose end will be tied up. However, Erikson doesn't give me that feeling. I still feel as of there are GotM threads to be tied... there may not actually be any, but I still feel as if there is. Also, the are to me just interesting short stories which just happen to show us more of the world. Often they show us new things, which is great. For example, there are the lift interludes showing us interesting magic system hacks, and that one in Oathbringer with the Soulcasting savant. Then there are the Axies the Collecter ones which are a nice comic relief. The other one that springs to mind is the one with the 17th shard searching for Hoid... that one I think is a little out of place as it seems to be part of a larger story, but unless the reader has read other Cosmere books and knows who Hoid is it is a little strange. Regarding the apparently endless moping etc, I too find some of the Shallan scenes annoying. However, I love the Kaladin ones. The way we get his depression shoved down our throats repetitively is either inspired or accidentally awesome - it is akin to the way true depressed people think (at least in my experience).
Note that I do love MBotF, I just prefer Sanderson, especially Mistborn and Stormlight.

This post has been edited by John II: 23 April 2019 - 09:26 AM

[Maark Abbott]

There is nothing accidentally awesome or inspired with any point that Ole Sandy is saying "and Bubbledin was depressed again". Once or twice, sure, we get the message. But his depression is to Stormlight what smug is to GOT S8 - overdone and overbearing.

[John II]

Maark Abbott, on 23 April 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

There is nothing accidentally awesome or inspired with any point that Ole Sandy is saying "and Bubbledin was depressed again". Once or twice, sure, we get the message. But his depression is to Stormlight what smug is to GOT S8 - overdone and overbearing.

You're entitled to your opinion (even if it is wrong ) . I happen to quite like those sections. Remember, the real world isn't all thrills, and sometimes boring things happen. Besides, as I said, the way it is forced down our throats is quite clever.
Also, ASoIaF/GoT does in no way compare to Stormlight. One is a superbly crafted masterpiece with excellent worldbuilding written by an incredibly prolific author, and the other is a sadly overrated disappointment in a overused style of world with a typically vague magic system which will probably never be finished.

[Abyss]

I loveTSA, but still think Kaladin’s issues are utterly overdone.

[Maark Abbott]

John II, on 23 April 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 April 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

There is nothing accidentally awesome or inspired with any point that Ole Sandy is saying "and Bubbledin was depressed again". Once or twice, sure, we get the message. But his depression is to Stormlight what smug is to GOT S8 - overdone and overbearing.

You're entitled to your opinion (even if it is wrong ) . I happen to quite like those sections. Remember, the real world isn't all thrills, and sometimes boring things happen. Besides, as I said, the way it is forced down our throats is quite clever.
Also, ASoIaF/GoT does in no way compare to Stormlight. One is a superbly crafted masterpiece with excellent worldbuilding written by an incredibly prolific author, and the other is a sadly overrated disappointment in a overused style of world with a typically vague magic system which will probably never be finished.

How is it clever in any sense of the word to have about 300 pages of "Kaladin is sad"?

As to Stormlight having good worldbuilding? You have some temerity to suggest my opinions are wrong if you thought that slapdash, careless world was in any way well thought out. It's extremely evident that it was only written with Rule of Cool in mind, and that he didn't give a shit when cobbling disparate elements together. The end result looks something like a Scourge Abomination from Warcraft 3.

[QuickTidal]

Maark Abbott, on 24 April 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

How is it clever in any sense of the word to have about 300 pages of "Kaladin is sad"?

Because other stuff happens in there...you were just to blinded by your own hatred of one aspect to read those bits?

The idea that there is 300 pages of 'Kaladin sad' is a pretty ludicrous exaggeration.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 April 2019 - 12:58 PM

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 24 April 2019 - 03:30 AM, said:

Shallan is a lot fucking worse to follow then emo Kal though. That was a bad moment though... I will have a fucking fit if we have to listen to that shit for the 4th straight book

I would argue Shallan's multiple-personalty issues are more interesting, better written, and far far less repetitious than Kal's.
Also, Shallan's powers are part of her issues... Kal just mopes a lot.

Maark Abbott, on 24 April 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

...

As to Stormlight having good worldbuilding? You have some temerity to suggest my opinions are wrong if you thought that slapdash, careless world was in any way well thought out. It's extremely evident that it was only written with Rule of Cool in mind, and that he didn't give a shit when cobbling disparate elements together. The end result looks something like a Scourge Abomination from Warcraft 3.

Evident to you, maybe.
Some of us think the scope and diversity of what Brandon has done with TSA and his wider cosmere is actually very impressive/enjoyable.


...but you knew that already. You just have this problem not framing your own opinions as omnipresent overarching fact, but it's ok Maark, we know and accept you for who and what you are.

But stop it anyways because you come across as a dick and it makes having an actual discussion with you distasteful.

QuickTidal, on 24 April 2019 - 12:51 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 24 April 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

How is it clever in any sense of the word to have about 300 pages of "Kaladin is sad"?

Because other stuff happens in there...you were just to blinded by your own hatred of one aspect to read those bits?

The idea that there is 300 pages of 'Kaladin sad' is a pretty ludicrous exaggeration.

Agreed.

There is entirely too much Kaladin is sad, but it's hardly a quarter of the book (even if at moments it felt that way).