[Tapper]

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

D, on 07 February 2019 - 06:49 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

D, on 06 February 2019 - 11:00 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 06 February 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Fine hacan merchants, the mentak are your friendly neighbours now. As such any trades are subject to a small tax, since you have many customers wishing to trade with you the mentak, would make you a special introductory offer. We will only tax your trades once this turn in return for hacan support in the upcoming agenda phase, the votes of your fine home planets perhaps in a direction of our choice? The mentak hope that this will be the beginning of a long and productive friendship.

And it's at this point that I suppose I should point out that since I haven't played the Mentak Promise of Protection yet I could technically still trade it to someone else. If the Hacan anticipate such a relationship turning sour and being pillaged quite a bit, I could perhaps be persuaded to trade it away.

I would be very interested.

By all means, do some mathy mathy to figure out what it's worth to me / worth to you and make an offer.

I had some overnight thoughts.
They lead me to conclude I am once again in familiar territory where I reject common wisdom/pricing .

I would happily pay you 7 TG for your racial PN.
I don't think I would offer more than 6 for the Mentak PN, considering their piracy is more of an inconvenience (need to make more trades) than an unescapable blade of Damocles.

So, IMHO you are asking the wrong person to make an offer.
I think the better deal for you is asking the Mentak what it is worth to them for you to NOT exchange their racial PN with me for 6 TG.
For me, the downside of a vampiric Mentak sugarbaby might just mean that I may not be able to acquire the full 6 TG a turn, but perhaps only 5 (a loss of 1 TG a turn, but equal to buying the PN for 6, assuming we go 7 rounds this game).
They stand much more to lose with that exchange than I do: after all, bordering Hacan is likely worth 2-5 TG a turn for IH (2-3 TG leeched on transactions, plus a trade with me which they pirate, essentially making it a 3:1 exchange).

If you want to buy it for 6TG go for it. I'm quite happy for the hacan to have it as it means more trades are likely to happen, which means ultimately more TG for me.

I expect I'll get a similar yield of TG from d'rek, and it means the VP potential of the jol nar is slightly reduced.

I'm also up for a deal with you Tapper where you pay me, I don't loot you and you get to accumulate TG at will.
Ultimately I think you are of like minded with me and that you'd rather not pay something upfront rather than a steady yield over the game.

I definitely agree with you on the part in italics.

[Tapper]

Gnaw, on 07 February 2019 - 08:53 AM, said:

Damn. Normally the iron fist has a silken glove on it. Forget that part Tapper? 😁

Care to swap commodities?

Happy to swap commodities.

As for the silken glove... it got shredded last time we extended our claws. Since IH's offer came with a threat to attack me until I counter and lose his PN, I decided to be honest and forthright myself. And with production biomes in the near future, I will always have a steady flow of TG I need to grant to other players, anyway - this is a decent use of it.

[Imperial Historian]

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 08:50 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

D, on 06 February 2019 - 11:00 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 06 February 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Fine hacan merchants, the mentak are your friendly neighbours now. As such any trades are subject to a small tax, since you have many customers wishing to trade with you the mentak, would make you a special introductory offer. We will only tax your trades once this turn in return for hacan support in the upcoming agenda phase, the votes of your fine home planets perhaps in a direction of our choice? The mentak hope that this will be the beginning of a long and productive friendship.

And it's at this point that I suppose I should point out that since I haven't played the Mentak Promise of Protection yet I could technically still trade it to someone else. If the Hacan anticipate such a relationship turning sour and being pillaged quite a bit, I could perhaps be persuaded to trade it away.

I would be very interested.

I thought you might, and was fully expecting d'rek to sell it to you, be aware that it only works if you don't attack me, so if you buy it off d'rek I will be incentivised to attack you continuously until you activate one of my systems.

I'd much rather come to an agreement, but if you want to deal with d'rek go for it.

Thank you for reinforcing my conclusion that you don't want me to hold that PN much more than I should want to hold it.

Here's my non-negotiable offer.

1. You promise to pirate no more than 2 deals between me and another player (other than you) on each of my commodities' refresh, regardless of how many trades I make.
2. You always trade your 2 TG with me whenever you get a free refresh, and you can always pirate that trade, making it essentially a 3:1 exchange for you.
Those conditions net you a likely 5 TG a turn.

If you break that agreement even once, I will set a bounty for each wormhole blocked by another player's fleet and for the first Mentak ship destroyed each round.

So let's be clear on what that means?

I can use my pillage ability twice a turn on you when you make trades with another player, I can still loot you when you and I make a 2:2 trade, and the other party in the trade?

If so we have a deal.

[Tapper]

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 08:50 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

D, on 06 February 2019 - 11:00 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 06 February 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Fine hacan merchants, the mentak are your friendly neighbours now. As such any trades are subject to a small tax, since you have many customers wishing to trade with you the mentak, would make you a special introductory offer. We will only tax your trades once this turn in return for hacan support in the upcoming agenda phase, the votes of your fine home planets perhaps in a direction of our choice? The mentak hope that this will be the beginning of a long and productive friendship.

And it's at this point that I suppose I should point out that since I haven't played the Mentak Promise of Protection yet I could technically still trade it to someone else. If the Hacan anticipate such a relationship turning sour and being pillaged quite a bit, I could perhaps be persuaded to trade it away.

I would be very interested.

I thought you might, and was fully expecting d'rek to sell it to you, be aware that it only works if you don't attack me, so if you buy it off d'rek I will be incentivised to attack you continuously until you activate one of my systems.

I'd much rather come to an agreement, but if you want to deal with d'rek go for it.

Thank you for reinforcing my conclusion that you don't want me to hold that PN much more than I should want to hold it.

Here's my non-negotiable offer.

1. You promise to pirate no more than 2 deals between me and another player (other than you) on each of my commodities' refresh, regardless of how many trades I make.
2. You always trade your 2 TG with me whenever you get a free refresh, and you can always pirate that trade, making it essentially a 3:1 exchange for you.
Those conditions net you a likely 5 TG a turn.

If you break that agreement even once, I will set a bounty for each wormhole blocked by another player's fleet and for the first Mentak ship destroyed each round.

So let's be clear on what that means?

I can use my pillage ability twice a turn on you when you make trades with another player, I can still loot you when you and I make a 2:2 trade, and the other party in the trade?

If so we have a deal.

Yeah, you can pillage the Hacan side of a trade a maximum of twice a turn (per refresh). You can loot me in addition when you and I make a 2:2 trade.
For other players that border you, nothing changes - their deals with you are their deals with you.

[Tapper]

I now go into a meeting. Will do my turn after, during lunch.

[Imperial Historian]

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 09:07 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 09:00 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 08:50 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Tapper, on 07 February 2019 - 05:14 AM, said:

D, on 06 February 2019 - 11:00 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 06 February 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

Fine hacan merchants, the mentak are your friendly neighbours now. As such any trades are subject to a small tax, since you have many customers wishing to trade with you the mentak, would make you a special introductory offer. We will only tax your trades once this turn in return for hacan support in the upcoming agenda phase, the votes of your fine home planets perhaps in a direction of our choice? The mentak hope that this will be the beginning of a long and productive friendship.

And it's at this point that I suppose I should point out that since I haven't played the Mentak Promise of Protection yet I could technically still trade it to someone else. If the Hacan anticipate such a relationship turning sour and being pillaged quite a bit, I could perhaps be persuaded to trade it away.

I would be very interested.

I thought you might, and was fully expecting d'rek to sell it to you, be aware that it only works if you don't attack me, so if you buy it off d'rek I will be incentivised to attack you continuously until you activate one of my systems.

I'd much rather come to an agreement, but if you want to deal with d'rek go for it.

Thank you for reinforcing my conclusion that you don't want me to hold that PN much more than I should want to hold it.

Here's my non-negotiable offer.

1. You promise to pirate no more than 2 deals between me and another player (other than you) on each of my commodities' refresh, regardless of how many trades I make.
2. You always trade your 2 TG with me whenever you get a free refresh, and you can always pirate that trade, making it essentially a 3:1 exchange for you.
Those conditions net you a likely 5 TG a turn.

If you break that agreement even once, I will set a bounty for each wormhole blocked by another player's fleet and for the first Mentak ship destroyed each round.

So let's be clear on what that means?

I can use my pillage ability twice a turn on you when you make trades with another player, I can still loot you when you and I make a 2:2 trade, and the other party in the trade?

If so we have a deal.

Yeah, you can pillage the Hacan side of a trade a maximum of twice a turn (per refresh). You can loot me in addition when you and I make a 2:2 trade.
For other players that border you, nothing changes - their deals with you are their deals with you.

Ok, we have a deal, but I will consider any encouragement on your part not to give me a free refresh a breach of the deal. No taxation on trades more than twice a round, except on a trade with me.

[Galactic Council]

Yeah, IH, you’re definitely going to have to keep me informed of who you’re pillaging when in this game

[Morgoth]

Gnaw, on 07 February 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 07 February 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

Gnaw, on 07 February 2019 - 04:38 AM, said:

Morgoth, you forgot to state that you were refreshing commodities.

Do you want to swap them along with the ceasefires? Single transaction so you only get pirate once.

I did refresh commodities. I've bolded it now that I've polished the post. And IH and I have an understanding which means I will not be pirated.

I have already traded my commodities with IH. But I'm happy to do a trade with you, say 3 commodities for 2 TGs?

No thanks Tapper. Er, Twelve. Er, Morgoth. Not interested in extortion today.

Extortion? a 2 commodities for 2 tgs means I gain nothing while simultaneously granting you 2 tgs. a 3:2 for two swap means I gain 1 tg while you gain 2. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper if you moved your cruiser from Lodor then you wouldn't be connected to IH and it'd force him to move again before connecting and that means he'd be pushed back from getting a VP.

IH what am I getting our of conceding Tar'mann?

[Galactic Council]

Map has been updated to end of Twelve's turn.

[Galactic Council]

Race sheets have also been updated, by the by, so everyone can see all the shiny new firepower on display

[Imperial Historian]

Tattersail_, on 07 February 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Tapper if you moved your cruiser from Lodor then you wouldn't be connected to IH and it'd force him to move again before connecting and that means he'd be pushed back from getting a VP.

IH what am I getting our of conceding Tar'mann?

Yes, but Tapper then doesn't get the resources of lodor. Why would it stop me getting a VP?

Re tar'mann we hadn't agreed you would get anything for you not moving on tar'mann, as you hadn't asked for anything, other than no conflict with me

I won't loot you this turn or next whilst I hold tar'mann, further deals to be worked out once we decide who is ultimately going to hold it? You've been very ambivalent about it thus far.

[Imperial Historian]

Galactic Council, on 07 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yeah, IH, you’re definitely going to have to keep me informed of who you’re pillaging when in this game

Yeah, pillaging/not pillaging is complex! Not sure the best way to handle it, any suggestions? How did the other mentak players deal with it?

[Tattersail_]

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 12:02 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 07 February 2019 - 11:02 AM, said:

Tapper if you moved your cruiser from Lodor then you wouldn't be connected to IH and it'd force him to move again before connecting and that means he'd be pushed back from getting a VP.

IH what am I getting our of conceding Tar'mann?

Yes, but Tapper then doesn't get the resources of lodor. Why would it stop me getting a VP?

Re tar'mann we hadn't agreed you would get anything for you not moving on tar'mann, as you hadn't asked for anything, other than no conflict with me

I won't loot you this turn or next whilst I hold tar'mann, further deals to be worked out once we decide who is ultimately going to hold it? You've been very ambivalent about it thus far.

That is fine by me. That's enough to stop me from any moves right now.

[Galactic Council]

Imperial Historian, on 07 February 2019 - 12:04 PM, said:

Galactic Council, on 07 February 2019 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yeah, IH, you’re definitely going to have to keep me informed of who you’re pillaging when in this game

Yeah, pillaging/not pillaging is complex! Not sure the best way to handle it, any suggestions? How did the other mentak players deal with it?

Nom only really bordered me and Morgoth whole of last game, and I had the Promise of Protection, so it wasn’t so complex.

And Nico just stopped playing

So I think this might be the first game where we see a lot of pillaging going on. I’ll put a sticky note next to your player sheet and those races you neighbour to remind me to check for pillaging each time they trade. Your deal with Tapper makes it a bit more complex as you’ll presumably choose which two trades out of all the ones he engages in you pillage...we could say just any first two he does (as long as you have no no-pillage deals with the other race involved, SIGH), but that might also start a thing where everyone stalls trading so they’re not among the first two

Edit: Ah, except you’ll always pillage them, just not Tapper. Okay, that makes it more simple.

This post has been edited by Galactic Council: 07 February 2019 - 12:14 PM

[Morgoth]

And how I hated that pillaging!

[Galactic Council]

Morgoth, on 07 February 2019 - 12:12 PM, said:

And how I hated that pillaging!

You won, so shush!

[Morgoth]

You forgot to move my fighter, Khell. They're not advanced, though if you think I deserve that tech I'm happy to accept it.

[Galactic Council]

See edit above - see, I’ve already confused myself with how pillaging works. Okay, I should be able to keep track of it...but I think you’ll have to keep a close eye on it, IH.

[Galactic Council]

Morgoth, on 07 February 2019 - 12:14 PM, said:

You forgot to move my fighter, Khell. They're not advanced, though if you think I deserve that tech I'm happy to accept it.

Yeah, go on then, have the tech. Cost is -4 VP.