Malazan Empire: Twilight Imperium (Game 3) - Chat Thread - Malazan Empire

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Twilight Imperium (Game 3) - Chat Thread

#61 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 10:54 PM

View PostMorgoth, on 29 January 2019 - 10:43 PM, said:

View PostGnaw, on 29 January 2019 - 07:01 PM, said:

Morgoth, we are agreeable to a non conflict pathway for you. Especially with the appetizer you offer (just think of how cheap it would be to send a fighterII our way).

Fiery beings, we need to talk. (I'm getting ready for an appointment at the moment.) It occurs to us that we would see very little need to assimilate Muaat Units if we possessed the basic war sun technology ourselves.


That's good to hear. I will be amendable to other such trades of technology in the future.


In the future we could even discuss the possibility of you occupying Rarron (0/3) and Torkan (0/3) while we occupy Tequ'ran (2/0) and Qucen'n (1/2). We're not certain how that would work in practice but theoretically it's worth thinking about?

This post has been edited by Gnaw: 29 January 2019 - 10:56 PM

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor Frankl
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#62 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.
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#63 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:01 PM

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for me taking Speaker token while giving you first choice of strategy card and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


FTFY Tatts. Why would you make yourself last in strategy card pick?
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#64 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM

View PostD, on 29 January 2019 - 07:45 PM, said:

View PostImperial Historian, on 29 January 2019 - 06:26 PM, said:

D'rek any thoughts on our position? You seem to have a very rich slice of the galaxy. the jol nar and mentak had bad blood in previous games, that doesn't need to happen in this one if they are appropriately funded, it's a dangerous galaxy out there, the mentak offer protection :)


I'm not so sure I agree re: rich slice of the galaxy. The 3 closest and least contested planetary systems to my HW would give me 10 total res/inf in a given round if used for their highest values out of res vs inf.

That's pretty much the same as Nom, Twelve, or Macgnaw, and notably less than Morgoth's or Tapper's equivalent systems. Morgoth especially scares me since Macgnaw are saying they won't contest his path to the center, and each of those three double-planet hexes between him and MR are a 5 r+i system, plus they together make a very even resource/influence balance. Adding the 6 resources from his HW, we're looking at a Barony with 14 resources and 9 influence every round... terrifying.

And that's why I feel you *do* need to pillage the shit out of him. Yes, he only has a commodity cap of 2. But Morgoth won't need to spend his TGs on ships or CTs, nor does he need to use his Munitions Reserve ability frequently. He just needs to stockpile 6+ trade goods, at which point all his battles become guaranteed wins so long as he picks them relatively carefully. Most battles he won't need to actually spend a TG, but he can go into a 70%-odds-of-victory battle completely confident that he can spend the TGs if he needs to to assure his win. If he only has 2 or 3 TG piled up, he can't be so confident, and if he takes the lead in VP it's not insurmountable for us to stop him.

Anyways, yeah, I've at least got a decent-to-good slice resources-wise and I don't have to care about tech specialties much so that doesn't phase me. Most of all, I like it's general isolationist shape with being far from wormholes + the blank hex + sort-of-chokepoints. Though I'd have preferred a supernova to the gravity rift, of course.

I'm sure we'll end up becoming neighbours at BereLirta--Saudor, so you'll be able to pillage me then. With my commodity cap being 4 I'll probably spend the CT on Trade 2ry most rounds. Last game went 7 rounds to 14 VP, and we probably won't become neighbours until round 2, so that's most likely 5 rounds - 6 if the game is a bit slow and still goes to 7 despite the lower VP limit - where you can pillage me when I cash in commodities for trade goods, and therefore you'd gain 5 trade goods off of me. As an alternative to the pillaging, I'm willing to trade my Research Agreement for your Promise of Protection. I'd value the Research Agreement at 7 TG since performing the Tech secondary costs 1CT+4Res, so it's a higher value for you and you get it all up-front. It's a good deal for me because it assures me you don't give it to Morgoth and makes planning/calculation easier for the whole game.

Alternatively, if the issue you're worried about is being able to trade your own commodities, I'm willing to put in place a policy where I always trade 2 of my commodities to you for your 2 whenever you refresh.


Hmmm I'd not actually paid close attention to the baronies homeworld. Hmmm.

Gnaw are you really ceding all those 6 planets to morgoth uncontested?

D'rek you may be right that your hex slice isn't particularly wealthy but it still has more resources than mine, and I'd expect to loot more than 5tg over the course of the game from you as jol nar as you'll almost certainly want to be trading your tech PN to others, which if you are valuing it at 7tg will probably be very lucrative for me, and unless I'm reading it wrong is something you can trade frequently for no cost to you. Additionally my PN grants you an extra action which you have already said you would like to use to stall.

Personally I'd value my not looting you through my PN at closer to 7 TG over the course of the game, plus another 3tg for the crucial early stall to let you use warfare. Do you have a better offer?
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#65 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:04 PM

View PostGnaw, on 29 January 2019 - 11:01 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for me taking Speaker token while giving you first choice of strategy card and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


FTFY Tatts. Why would you make yourself last in strategy card pick?


There is nothing in particular I am after and want to be more flexible this game. The last two games I've been chasing strategy card picks and giving stuff away to get what was essentially not needed. Others have done well regardless what pick they've had.
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#66 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:07 PM

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


Sorry, no deal. You're likely to make yourself Speaker and I'll get 2nd pick anyways, and my PN is worth more than having that system for ~4 rounds (especially when they are later rounds). Not worth it for me.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#67 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:17 PM

View PostD, on 29 January 2019 - 11:07 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


Sorry, no deal. You're likely to make yourself Speaker and I'll get 2nd pick anyways, and my PN is worth more than having that system for ~4 rounds (especially when they are later rounds). Not worth it for me.


Hah. Tatts, make us Speaker just to spite her over that!
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#68 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:18 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM, said:

D'rek you may be right that your hex slice isn't particularly wealthy but it still has more resources than mine,


By 1!

(Saudor + Mehar Xull + Starpoint + New Albion = 9 ... Bereg + Lirta + Zej Rajja + Nevant = 10)

And you picked before me, why is this my fault?!

View PostImperial Historian, on 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM, said:

and I'd expect to loot more than 5tg over the course of the game from you as jol nar as you'll almost certainly want to be trading your tech PN to others, which if you are valuing it at 7tg will probably be very lucrative for me,


I am hoping I won't trade it away very often, actually, as every time I do it erodes my tech lead - my one advantage - bit by bit. But we'll see. Personally I don't anticipate selling it for TG much, rather I'd aim to trade it mostly for Ceasefires. Especially if I know those TGs will just get looted by my adjacent neighbour - better to trade in other things, then.

View PostImperial Historian, on 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM, said:

and unless I'm reading it wrong is something you can trade frequently for no cost to you.


Correct

View PostImperial Historian, on 29 January 2019 - 11:02 PM, said:

Additionally my PN grants you an extra action which you have already said you would like to use to stall.

Personally I'd value my not looting you through my PN at closer to 7 TG over the course of the game, plus another 3tg for the crucial early stall to let you use warfare. Do you have a better offer?


When did I ever say I needed to stall? I definitely don't. I can do one turn moving to Nevant, one turn moving to Zej Rajja, and then play Leadership as my first 3 turns. Meanwhile, Twelve has only a single carrier so he will almost certainly move and then play Logistics as his 2nd turn. Even if he used an AC to stall it to 3rd, I would still be able to wait for it. I definitely don't need a stall. Nom and Blend are the ones who might want a stall since they go before Twelve and only have 1 transport ship.

Which puts us back to the PN value's being... 7, by your calculations. Which is what I had valued my PN at, too.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#69 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:19 PM

View PostGnaw, on 29 January 2019 - 11:17 PM, said:

View PostD, on 29 January 2019 - 11:07 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


Sorry, no deal. You're likely to make yourself Speaker and I'll get 2nd pick anyways, and my PN is worth more than having that system for ~4 rounds (especially when they are later rounds). Not worth it for me.


Hah. Tatts, make us Speaker just to spite her over that!


If that is how the tides ebb, than c'est la tentacle :shrug:

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#70 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:30 PM

Is it just me or are the neighbors not being quite as neighborly this time around?
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#71 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:31 PM

View PostD, on 29 January 2019 - 11:07 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


Sorry, no deal. You're likely to make yourself Speaker and I'll get 2nd pick anyways, and my PN is worth more than having that system for ~4 rounds (especially when they are later rounds). Not worth it for me.



Honestly all day I've been thinking about giving it to Tapper to be honest. How many times can you give out your Racial in a phase?

I'm thinking you'd want to be friendly neighbours like me, and as such give me better treatment than someone who's already said they'll need to keep you in check and tax you every chance they get?
If you like the above deal can be amended to also swap ceasefires? That way you get peace of mind from one direction.
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#72 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:46 PM

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 11:31 PM, said:

View PostD, on 29 January 2019 - 11:07 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


Sorry, no deal. You're likely to make yourself Speaker and I'll get 2nd pick anyways, and my PN is worth more than having that system for ~4 rounds (especially when they are later rounds). Not worth it for me.



Honestly all day I've been thinking about giving it to Tapper to be honest. How many times can you give out your Racial in a phase?

I'm thinking you'd want to be friendly neighbours like me, and as such give me better treatment than someone who's already said they'll need to keep you in check and tax you every chance they get?
If you like the above deal can be amended to also swap ceasefires? That way you get peace of mind from one direction.


I have every intention of being neighbourly. I also intend to be rather staunchly isolationist, self-interested, and horde my specialties (especially my racial PN). If you'll recall how the whole Mansa III sharing thing went last game, you can understand why I'd be loathe to give up my most precious possible trade in exchange for yet another planet sharing agreement over a 1-res planet. Being nice and giving better treatment to a friendly neighbour only goes so far.

Besides, as others seem fond of pointing out, you're a militarily-superior race to my frail squids, and that can't help but set our tentacles a-shudder just a bit. Exchanging ceasefires sounds good, but swapping ceasefires *and* I give up the planet entirely for little is not equal, and I could say not friendly neighbourly of you in return. If you want the planet very badly and I am worried of your military, one option would be to straight swap your ceasefire for my giving up the planet entirely, all game. Else, we need to figure out some other deal, probably one that doesn't involve my racial as I think I'll always value that too high than you'll value it.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#73 User is offline   twelve 

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 11:57 PM

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


I need my racial tech and only if I don't have Rex already. I'm hoping that I can get to Rex round 2 as well but a few things have to go right for that to happen.
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#74 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:01 AM

View Posttwelve, on 29 January 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


I need my racial tech and only if I don't have Rex already. I'm hoping that I can get to Rex round 2 as well but a few things have to go right for that to happen.


I didn't ask anything from you.. I'm saying you don't need that planet to gain access to rex
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#75 User is offline   twelve 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:12 AM

View PostTattersail_, on 30 January 2019 - 12:01 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 29 January 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

View PostTattersail_, on 29 January 2019 - 10:58 PM, said:

@Twelve the wormhole and your ability means you gain Mec Rex the same as if you were 1 away no? I could not get there until round 2.

D'rek what would you say to giving me your racial in return for Speaker token and no early contest from you for that particular system? I'm hoping to only use it once for the green prerequisite. I should be able to take it in round 2.


I need my racial tech and only if I don't have Rex already. I'm hoping that I can get to Rex round 2 as well but a few things have to go right for that to happen.


I didn't ask anything from you.. I'm saying you don't need that planet to gain access to rex


And I'm not offering anything. I'm just stating that I need multiple researches to even have the tech to be able to do as you suggest. It's much easier to just travel to my destination the old fashion way and gobble the planets up as I go hence if I have to travel over or through Ensapta I'm going to. I'm hoping to do it before we have any issues but I'm not likely to stop for a few rounds just so you can grab a planet I have just as much right to as you.
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#76 User is offline   Galactic Council 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 12:36 AM

Okay, everything is pretty much set up, just waiting on a couple of people to select their secret objective after which I'll reveal the first two public objectives, and then we're a go-go!
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#77 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 01:28 AM

View PostGalactic Council, on 30 January 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

Okay, everything is pretty much set up, just waiting on a couple of people to select their secret objective after which I'll reveal the first two public objectives, and then we're a go-go!


Do you want us to re-post strategy selections? Or just go straight to the first turn of the action phase?

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#78 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:12 AM

View PostD, on 30 January 2019 - 01:28 AM, said:

View PostGalactic Council, on 30 January 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

Okay, everything is pretty much set up, just waiting on a couple of people to select their secret objective after which I'll reveal the first two public objectives, and then we're a go-go!


Do you want us to re-post strategy selections? Or just go straight to the first turn of the action phase?


Iíve already posted the first strategy selections and status for each player in the game thread, so youíll be able to go straight to the action phase.
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#79 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 02:33 AM

I see I see!

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#80 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 04:08 AM

Looking over the map, wow I didn't realize how many of us start with a 4res planet or better in the homeworld. I take back what I said earlier about Macgnaw and TECH - even if played as the very first turn only Nom, Tapper, and Twelve would be unable to research (and if TRADE were played T1 even they might be able to). Quite a difference from the 5(?) who were under 4r last game.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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