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Identity Politics

#101 User is offline   Primateus 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 30 December 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

I would have to add that the Tories will try to block anyone who might vote against them, so it makes sense that they would try to block trans folk from doing so. They're no friends of the right wing.


This is just fucking insane. If you cared about democracy and letting every voting age citizen have their vote, wouldn't you want to make it easy for everyone to do so?

Don't politicians always begin with the "First of all, it's important that you vote."?
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#102 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 12:56 PM

In this the Left and Right are of the same mind: "You may have a voice, but only if you agree with me."
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

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#103 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 01:35 PM

View PostPrimateus, on 30 December 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

View PostMaark Abbott, on 30 December 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

I would have to add that the Tories will try to block anyone who might vote against them, so it makes sense that they would try to block trans folk from doing so. They're no friends of the right wing.


This is just fucking insane. If you cared about democracy and letting every voting age citizen have their vote, wouldn't you want to make it easy for everyone to do so?

Don't politicians always begin with the "First of all, it's important that you vote."?


It is insane, but our current government do not really give a shite about democracy. If they did we wouldn't have FPTP as a voting system.



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#104 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 01:44 PM

View PostMaark Abbott, on 30 December 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

It is insane, but government do not really give a shite about democracy. They only care about the people they are accountable to for their actions every day - large corporations.


FTFY

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 30 December 2019 - 01:49 PM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#105 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 01:45 PM

View PostTsundoku, on 30 December 2019 - 01:44 PM, said:

View PostMaark Abbott, on 30 December 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostPrimateus, on 30 December 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

View PostMaark Abbott, on 30 December 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

I would have to add that the Tories will try to block anyone who might vote against them, so it makes sense that they would try to block trans folk from doing so. They're no friends of the right wing.


This is just fucking insane. If you cared about democracy and letting every voting age citizen have their vote, wouldn't you want to make it easy for everyone to do so?

Don't politicians always begin with the "First of all, it's important that you vote."?


It is insane, but government do not really give a shite about democracy. They only care about the people they are accountable to for their actions every day - large corporations.


FTFY


Oligarchy, yup.



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#106 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 11:53 PM

Posted Image

Some Asian-Americans apparently do get offended if they see non-East Asian people doing any traditional Spring Festival ('Chinese New Year' / Lunar New Year) activities, decorations, etc., no matter how accurate or respectful they may be....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 January 2020 - 11:54 PM

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#107 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.

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#108 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 09:41 AM

View PostAndorion, on 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.



Me too. I don't understand why this is a bad thing to be criticized, and it makes me feel old.
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#109 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 12:43 PM

View PostMorgoth, on 20 January 2020 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostAndorion, on 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.



Me too. I don't understand why this is a bad thing to be criticized, and it makes me feel old.


Those who refer to themselves as Woke have reached peak self-flagellation, to the point that cultural exchange is verboten and each culture must be kept separate and distinct and for usage by only that culture.

Meanwhile Japan's response to people their culture has been "Nice, exports time", which sort of says it all for me.
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#110 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 January 2020 - 01:54 PM

View PostAndorion, on 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.



View PostMorgoth, on 20 January 2020 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostAndorion, on 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.



Me too. I don't understand why this is a bad thing to be criticized, and it makes me feel old.



View PostMaark Abbott, on 20 January 2020 - 12:43 PM, said:

View PostMorgoth, on 20 January 2020 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostAndorion, on 20 January 2020 - 12:56 AM, said:

I don't understand cultural appropriation. I am Indian.

You want to wear Saris, or dhotis? Go ahead. Just make sure that you know what you are doing or they will fall open.

You want to celebrate Diwali? Sure! I mean we have Christmas sales here and eat Christmas cake and stuff.

I see this as cultural sharing.



Me too. I don't understand why this is a bad thing to be criticized, and it makes me feel old.


Those who refer to themselves as Woke have reached peak self-flagellation, to the point that cultural exchange is verboten and each culture must be kept separate and distinct and for usage by only that culture.

Meanwhile Japan's response to people their culture has been "Nice, exports time", which sort of says it all for me.


Yep, all of this.

I always use this as an example of how those that are trying to espouse "cultural appropriation" these days are so far off base as to be insane....when Coldplay and Beyonce went to India to shoot the video for 'Hymn For The Weekend' during Holi. There were a tonne of people who were like "You don't just get to go and join in the festival and whatnot if you're not Indian! How dare you!"....to which the sane people I know (who actually are from there and celebrate Holi) were like WTF are you on about? It's a celebration of spring. and rebirth and love...anyone can partake in that kind of thing. And gods forbid Beyonce wore a Sari....the horror!

It's all mental.

I think my favourite thing to do in the future will be when my viking-looking blonde haired blue-eyed kids are older and I let my daughter wear a kimono (or perhaps even the Happi Coat I inherited from my father) and watching everyone lose their shit (if this type of woke nonsense culture is still around then) about it....only for me to tell them about her heritage. Should make for some good laughs.

As far as I'm concerned actual Cultural Appropriation is reserved for ONLY certain Religious/sacred rights and or objects...(the Native American war bonnet, for example)...everything else and I do mean EVERYTHING is culture sharing and should not only be endorsed, but lauded and embraced. We can't be a global community unless we embrace and understand each others cultures.

Also 'gatekeeping' in general is a plague.
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#111 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 11:56 AM

Yeah that Holi thing makes no sense. Holi has no instrinsic religious aspect, while there are coinciding Pujas, the core idea is a festival of fun and celebration to mark the spring. Many people even make abir, that is the coloured powder from natural sources like the flowers of the palash tree which bloom at this time. Come and have fun!
Same goes for the biggest Bengali festival of the year - Durga Puja. You want to dress in a gorgeous sari or punjabi, and hang out at a pandal, you are welcome!

People forget that all cultural things are made by humans, for humans. They are not some untouchable ideal to be protected at all costs.

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#112 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 01:56 PM

View PostAndorion, on 21 January 2020 - 11:56 AM, said:

Yeah that Holi thing makes no sense. Holi has no instrinsic religious aspect, while there are coinciding Pujas, the core idea is a festival of fun and celebration to mark the spring. Many people even make abir, that is the coloured powder from natural sources like the flowers of the palash tree which bloom at this time. Come and have fun!
Same goes for the biggest Bengali festival of the year - Durga Puja. You want to dress in a gorgeous sari or punjabi, and hang out at a pandal, you are welcome!

People forget that all cultural things are made by humans, for humans. They are not some untouchable ideal to be protected at all costs.


As an aside, my wife and I both want to visit India one day (my stepmom attended school there as a child, so she says she'll come and show us around) and we'd love to time it so that we could see and participate in Holi.
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#113 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 03:08 PM

This is an interesting discussion in light of yesterday being MLK Day in the US. There were some interesting back n forths on social media when white people made dramatic statements referring to that.
The White House's favorite parrot-lich in human skin Kellyanne Conway REALLY put her foot in it, but that's just the higher profile example.
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#114 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

Awwww man. Hank Azaria no longer going to do the voice of Apu on the Simpsons, and the Apu character may be taken out of the show entirely. Why do things I found funny as a little sprout, and still find funny today, have to be viewed as so terrible now? Ah the memories of the fun me and my friends used to have on the playground saying "Mr. Simpson, pay for your purchases, get out... and come again!"

Also, men doing the voices of female characters on Bob's Burgers is bad too. Posted Image
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#115 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:15 PM

View PostAbyss, on 21 January 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

This is an interesting discussion in light of yesterday being MLK Day in the US. There were some interesting back n forths on social media when white people made dramatic statements referring to that.
The White House's favorite parrot-lich in human skin Kellyanne Conway REALLY put her foot in it, but that's just the higher profile example.


'Vice President Mike Pence says President Donald Trump is like the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. because Trump is “inspiring us” with a border wall.

[...] Defending Trump’s demand for money to build his wall, Pence referenced a quote from Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have A Dream” speech, citing the phrase “Now is the time to make real the promises of Democracy,” to make the case that Trump is like Martin Luther King Jr.'

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#116 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 21 January 2020 - 09:41 PM

View PostMalankazooie, on 21 January 2020 - 08:16 PM, said:

Awwww man. Hank Azaria no longer going to do the voice of Apu on the Simpsons, and the Apu character may be taken out of the show entirely. Why do things I found funny as a little sprout, and still find funny today, have to be viewed as so terrible now? Ah the memories of the fun me and my friends used to have on the playground saying "Mr. Simpson, pay for your purchases, get out... and come again!"

Also, men doing the voices of female characters on Bob's Burgers is bad too. Posted Image




Many of the complaints about Apu and appropriation of henna focus on having been bullied in elementary school. For example, the comedian who made the Apu documentary said Apu was used like a weapon. (Personally, I ignored the bullies at my middle-school so completely that they decided I must not know English, so they would scream 'Balki Bartokomos' at me in an exaggerated accent. It only concerned me when they spat on me, but that only happened twice. There are many reasons why it can be harder for South Asian-American children to ignore, especially with physical bullying and worse discrimination.)

But it seems like elementary school bullies will find other ways to mock anyone who seems different. People with visible differences or South Asian last names will probably be targeted anyway. (Insisting that only people of South Asian or Middle Eastern ancestry can wear henna seems obviously counterproductive in that respect.) Perhaps a better solution would be to have much stricter punishments for racial or xenophobic bullying. (And teaching children techniques for coping with bullying.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 21 January 2020 - 10:27 PM

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#117 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 01:32 AM

For the case of henna:

'During my early childhood, in the days following any given celebration, I was mocked, berated, and othered by white people, young and old, for having "gross things" on my hands. I would try to educate them but was mostly dismissed out of hand. The deep brown stains would fade to orange, leaving me with an odd sense of embarrassment for choosing to other my limbs in such fashion.

All of this changed in 1998, when this happened.

Madonna, acting as a trend-amplifier, wore henna on her hands and waved them around rather extravagantly for her gothy-pagan-meets-Desi Frozen video. Other celebrities followed suit, wearing bindis as well as mehndi body art. Suddenly, henna went from something no one knew about to something that was interpreted as "trendy" on white girls. Prepacked "tattoos" could be bought at the store or fresh designs obtained from a decorator working at mall kiosks. Thanks to its popularity, I no longer was asked what those "gross things" on my hands were. I was hardly spared from othering, however; people assumed I was getting a very young arranged, forced marriage when I wore it on my hands.

Henna is no longer officially A Thing in American culture[...] It is seen as passe, as a fad that died out, as a trend that's so 1990's.

Except that henna is not a trend, it's an art form that spans continents and has a deep heritage that goes back thousands of years.'

https://the-orbit.ne...-appropriation/

'In elementary school, my so-called friends made jokes when I came to school with henna on my hands. Some popular quips were that I never washed my hands, or I drew all over myself with brown marker. These bled into notions of who I was and what my culture is. [...] I've seen black, Latino and Central Asian people wearing henna, perhaps thinking that because they're people of color, it's okay for them to wear the patterns as opposed to white people. I don't agree. My brown and Asian peers added to the shame I felt when they made faces at my henna in elementary school – they perpetuated this casual racism too. [...] After years of feeling uncomfortable to wear henna for its intended purpose, it's hurtful to see the same people who turned their noses at my henna getting henna dolphins tattooed at boardwalks. My culture has become a way for people to feel cultured by taking a bit of my heritage and masking it with a facade of appreciation or solidarity.'

Desi person in comments section: ' I am sorry you were teased as a child for showing off your cultural heritage, but it happens to many kids for a multitude of reasons. Kids are young and immature. People grow up and learn. As for the 140 reported acts of hate violence, they are tragic, but they originate from a misunderstanding of the culture and backgrounds of the victims. Blocking off certain aspects to the culture from foreigners only enhances this misunderstanding, and further prevents peaceful coexistence. The world is more connected and diverse today than ever, and people from all across the globe frequently share music, literature, language, food, religions etc. Chill Out.'

https://dailybruin.c...people-culture/

'I would begin to question why my embarrassment towards henna only went away when my white friends acknowledged its beauty. I realized that these same white friends, many of them proud Trump supporters today, had no real interest in my culture or what henna's significance was for me. They just wanted to look like Vanessa Hudgens and the Jenners. I watched as their henna-stained hands (achieved in a booth at some music festival for a price that almost made me pity them) were met with compliments instead of alienating comments. And as I began to understand cultural appropriation before I had words for it, I started to really hate seeing white girls in henna.

Why was it only cool once they did it? Had they forgotten the times they'd made me feel stupid for wearing it? What changed?

The women in my family, however, remain excited anytime a woman in a movie, ad, or tabloid is pictured in henna. "Look, look at her hand! She's wearing henna!" my mother, aunts, and grandma never fail to point out, as if she is giving us a personal nod, a silent compliment. I roll my eyes. In the past, I have tried to explain to them why it pisses me off, and while they are receptive, they still perceive signs of our culture permeating America to be a positive thing.

[...] I ask my aunt, who I find out is also pretty fine with white people wearing henna. "It might be weird, maybe, at school with kids because kids aren't going to understand, but I think it's different with adults," she says. Last year, after a coworker expressed interest in her henna, my aunt invited her to a henna party at her house. "She loved it," she says. "When I see [henna] on other people here I think, oh wow cool, that's something from our culture that's becoming popular."'

https://www.vice.com...iation-of-henna

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 22 January 2020 - 01:32 AM

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#118 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 04:15 AM

So what I'm getting from these examples is that because certain people, typically of eastern descent, were bullied for their culture, now they go around bullying other people, typically white teens, for taking an interest in their culture.

Just seems like a cycle of hatred.
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#119 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 08:28 AM

View PostAptorian, on 22 January 2020 - 04:15 AM, said:

Just seems like a cycle of hatred.


It was ever thus...
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#120 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 22 January 2020 - 09:12 AM

So it goes.
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