[worry]

Come and See -- hellish vision of German occupation of Belarus.
Devils on the Doorstep -- dark comedy that gets darker as it goes, focused on the tail end of the Sino-Japanese War. Not a combat movie though.


Francois Truffaut supposedly said "There is no such thing as an anti-war film" and there's some truth to that, if you see what he was getting at, but these two movies really defy that sentiment the best of anything I've seen...especially Come and See.

They're not combat movies either, but I'd still count Grave of the Fireflies and Barefoot Gen as really effective war movies.


And to boost the recs of others, I like M*A*S*H the movie, but I looove M*A*S*H the tv show, especially once it starts getting over the need for traditional sitcom beats.

[Traveller]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 09 October 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Macros, on 09 October 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think there has been a serious lack of TV shows that display the absolute blundering ignorance of many commanders in WW1, barring black adder obviously

The only other "war" themed thing I've watched a lot of is the Sharpe series, set in the Napoleonic Wars. It's great fun but I wouldn't say it does much on the hierarchy being stupid front.

I'd say that the entire Sharpe series is full of examples, and consistently hammers home how incompetent but high status 'gentlemen' were put in command of experienced and hardened men of low birth.
And Sharpe himself is overlooked many times for promotion because of his birth, while young sons of wealthy landowners could afford to buy commissions and all the gear required for the rank, like horses and uniforms etc.

I know Cornwell turned each book into a sort of adventure story with a similar structure, but the period of history covered by that series is very well researched, and gives real insight into what it would have been like to be a soldier marching and fighting through the war. Sorry, wandering into book territory there! I wish they'd remake Sharpe with the effects they now have at their disposal. The battles in the original series had about 12 people in, walking around the camera to look like a line!

This post has been edited by Traveller: 09 October 2018 - 10:15 PM

[Slow Ben]

Malankazooie, on 09 October 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

The 80s were awash in Vietnam war movies. Lost in the Platoon / Full Metal Jacket epics are lesser known (but still brilliant) movies, like - Hamburger Hill and Casualties of War.

Not a Vietnam war movie, but still worth a watching (starring Clint Eastwood) is Heartbreak Ridge.

My names Gunnery Sergeant Highway and i've drank more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together.



Not your typical war movies, but The Dirty Dozen, The Great Escape, Stalag 17, and The Deer Hunter are great.


IMO, nothing touches Band of Brothers. I've probably watched it at least 10 times.

I'm going to have to find Generation War, sounds interesting.

[Malankazooie]

Slow Ben, on 10 October 2018 - 01:21 AM, said:

Malankazooie, on 09 October 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

The 80s were awash in Vietnam war movies. Lost in the Platoon / Full Metal Jacket epics are lesser known (but still brilliant) movies, like - Hamburger Hill and Casualties of War.

Not a Vietnam war movie, but still worth a watching (starring Clint Eastwood) is Heartbreak Ridge.

My names Gunnery Sergeant Highway and i've drank more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together.



Not your typical war movies, but The Dirty Dozen, The Great Escape, Stalag 17, and The Deer Hunter are great.


IMO, nothing touches Band of Brothers. I've probably watched it at least 10 times.

I'm going to have to find Generation War, sounds interesting.

The Deer Hunter is a masterpiece. A young Streep, Di Nero and Walken just going for it.

Patton. Did anyone mention Patton yet? A George C. Scott tour de force.

[Cause]

I cant remember why but the pacific didn't grab me. I think it even actively bored me. Which is a shame because one of the main stars of the show, is the (one of the) highest decorated marine in history. He won the medal of honour and was going to win it again but I think its not possible so he got the navy cross instead. When they showed his actions however on the show I remember thinking it didn't even come across as that impressive. Still like Band of Brothers I suppose it accomplished its goal in that I looked the real world events up.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have googled osme background on the 'German Band of Brothers', generation war. I will definitely watch it and form my own opinion but it seems to be quite divisive and controversial. I think it may be particularly annoying to me. It is accused my many reviewers, german and other, of whitewashing german history to an extent. It makes out like the German people were as much a victim of Hitler as the rest of the world. I can see this point of view and even understand it but I also personally think that Germany is very much responsible for its actions at the time. Their is a great scene in Band of Brothers when private Webster after seeing a concentration camp is sent back to the nearest German town to find food. He grabs an innocent baker and starts screaming him about his inhumanity and calls him a Nazi-fuck before he is pulled away by another soldier. The baker starts crying he is not a Nazi. Webster than says I have marched from one end of gemrnay to the other and have yet to find a Nazi. This resonates with me, I have lived in South Africa my whole life and have never met in person a white racist who supported apartheid. Where did they all go? Even if it was a driving ten percent of Nazi leading 50% followers the followers deserve some blame. If I had been born into apartheid, conscripted into the army at 18 and told to defend my countires interest against black communists in Namibia and angola and against the ANC resistance in South Africa I cant say how I would have behaved. I might have as a product of that time and system supported it, because it would have been easier than fighting it. This means I would not have been an architect of apartheid but neither would I have been its victim. I would have been a cog in the machine that made that machine possible. I can sympathize with the germans who were in many ways 'victims of Nazism' I can see that argument but I also think they chose their path. That said I do believe Germany for the most part acknowledges its role in WW2 and the holocaust. Ill watch the show and decide.

One of the biggest complaints and its certainly ahistorical is that it casts the polish resistance as more anti-Semite than the Nazis.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I remember loving we were soldiers. Its very much a pro American movie, though I wouldn't call it a vietnaam war propaganda piece. Its simply a Hollywood movie. That said the most impactful thing about that movie to me is that it truly drives home that for the Vietnamese this wanst something they were dragged into by communist pressure. They were a highly ideological and motivated army that faced an enemy superior in training, arms, airpower, technology and fought them toe to toe powered by sheer determination.

America seriously needs to re-examine its wars. I actually believe that fighting communism was as good a reason as any to start a war given what we know of Stalinism and communism. However they went into Vietnaam with no real objective, had no defined mission and let it drag on and drag on even as study after study was telling American presidents it was pointless. I'm by no means an expert but my understanding is that millions were killed and suffered and treasure was wasted for nothing in the end.

[Macros]

Wow wow wow.

Fighting communism is a good reason to go to war then hold up Stalin's brutally corrupt uncommunist dictatorship as a reason to support this statement? Please take that opinion and shove it in a deep valley in Lancre.

[Cause]

Macros, on 10 October 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

Wow wow wow.

Fighting communism is a good reason to go to war then hold up Stalin's brutally corrupt uncommunist dictatorship as a reason to support this statement? Please take that opinion and shove it in a deep valley in Lancre.

Well that's my understanding of the war. The Vietnam war lasted from 1955 to 1975. It was a proxy war of the cold war and its objective was to prevent the spread of communism as part of a policy of resisting its spread anywhere. The US believed that the more it spread, the more it would spread. Stalin was dead by the start of the war but his system lived past him, and communist china under Moa was also not great. Whether either is true communism (if that is your point), I can see why many would truly believe preventing the spread of their ideologies made sense. The Khmer rouge fucked up Cambodia.

[Macros]

No.

Just no.

[Gintokian]

Letters from Iwo Jima is a really good one too. It's mostly focused on the Japanese side of the Battle of Iwo Jima in WW2. Got very good reviews from both American and Japanese critics.

Directed by Clint Eastwood I believe.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Surprised no one has mentioned Black Hawk Down yet.

granted not a war movie as it's about a single day/operation but it goes into a hell of a lot of depth and even covers some of the stupidity of both the leaders and the various grunts involved.

[the broken]

Hacksaw Ridge is quite good.

Also, there's a Youtube channel called the Great War that I highly recommend, it goes into such detail, historical rather than fiction, but you get an amazing grounding in the complexities of large wars.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Traveller, on 09 October 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 09 October 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Macros, on 09 October 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think there has been a serious lack of TV shows that display the absolute blundering ignorance of many commanders in WW1, barring black adder obviously

The only other "war" themed thing I've watched a lot of is the Sharpe series, set in the Napoleonic Wars. It's great fun but I wouldn't say it does much on the hierarchy being stupid front.

I'd say that the entire Sharpe series is full of examples, and consistently hammers home how incompetent but high status 'gentlemen' were put in command of experienced and hardened men of low birth.
And Sharpe himself is overlooked many times for promotion because of his birth, while young sons of wealthy landowners could afford to buy commissions and all the gear required for the rank, like horses and uniforms etc.

I know Cornwell turned each book into a sort of adventure story with a similar structure, but the period of history covered by that series is very well researched, and gives real insight into what it would have been like to be a soldier marching and fighting through the war. Sorry, wandering into book territory there! I wish they'd remake Sharpe with the effects they now have at their disposal. The battles in the original series had about 12 people in, walking around the camera to look like a line!

Fair, actually.

Sharpe with effects would be amazing, but I'm not sure I'd want to see a Sharpe without it being that cast. I know that's a bit of a silly outlook, but because it's something I grew up with I'm a bit attached.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 11 October 2018 - 08:20 AM

[Macros]

Sean bean is Sharpe and Dara O'Malley is Harper, this is simply fact.

I just would really love someone to give them some rejuvenant shots and then start from Tiger and run through until the end (yes even Devil) minus the silly interlude books, Trafalgar, prey and chaos

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Macros, on 11 October 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

Sean bean is Sharpe and Dara O'Malley is Harper, this is simply fact.

I just would really love someone to give them some rejuvenant shots and then start from Tiger and run through until the end (yes even Devil) minus the silly interlude books, Trafalgar, prey and chaos

And nobody but Jason Salkey ever gets to quote Voltaire to solve a problem. Rifleman Harris ftw!

[Macros]

A lot of the casting is excellent. Hagman is perfect as well.

[Macros]

If they WERE to remake with a proper budget, is there anyone could even remotely fill Beans boots?

[Coco with marshmallows]

Macros, on 11 October 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

If they WERE to remake with a proper budget, is there anyone could even remotely fill Beans boots?

Well they could ignore the retcon and go for an actual Londoner/someone that can do a London accent

[Macros]

Nah

[Morgoth]

Macros, on 09 October 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

The Dutchy was a fool. Wellesley was arguably one of the British empires greatest generals, he would not have ordered infantry to form line when Calvary loomed.
Which orange most certainly, and well documentedly, did. The KGL suffered serious losses as a result.

I do agree that history is written by the Victor and the Brits undoubtedly at the time, and for a considerable time after, virtually dismissed the significant contribution of the other allied troops, (indeed without their actions at qatre bras there's would have been no Waterloo). But young Billy was in a position of authority purely because of who he was and nothing to do with his ability, which was, as we were discussing, was major problem with most military branch's in most countries at the time.

This statement always bugs me. History is not written by the victors. History is written by historians, and they rarely have much in common with the ruling class.

Cause, on 10 October 2018 - 12:01 PM, said:

I cant remember why but the pacific didn't grab me. I think it even actively bored me. Which is a shame because one of the main stars of the show, is the (one of the) highest decorated marine in history. He won the medal of honour and was going to win it again but I think its not possible so he got the navy cross instead. When they showed his actions however on the show I remember thinking it didn't even come across as that impressive. Still like Band of Brothers I suppose it accomplished its goal in that I looked the real world events up.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have googled osme background on the 'German Band of Brothers', generation war. I will definitely watch it and form my own opinion but it seems to be quite divisive and controversial. I think it may be particularly annoying to me. It is accused my many reviewers, german and other, of whitewashing german history to an extent. It makes out like the German people were as much a victim of Hitler as the rest of the world. I can see this point of view and even understand it but I also personally think that Germany is very much responsible for its actions at the time. Their is a great scene in Band of Brothers when private Webster after seeing a concentration camp is sent back to the nearest German town to find food. He grabs an innocent baker and starts screaming him about his inhumanity and calls him a Nazi-fuck before he is pulled away by another soldier. The baker starts crying he is not a Nazi. Webster than says I have marched from one end of gemrnay to the other and have yet to find a Nazi. This resonates with me, I have lived in South Africa my whole life and have never met in person a white racist who supported apartheid. Where did they all go? Even if it was a driving ten percent of Nazi leading 50% followers the followers deserve some blame. If I had been born into apartheid, conscripted into the army at 18 and told to defend my countires interest against black communists in Namibia and angola and against the ANC resistance in South Africa I cant say how I would have behaved. I might have as a product of that time and system supported it, because it would have been easier than fighting it. This means I would not have been an architect of apartheid but neither would I have been its victim. I would have been a cog in the machine that made that machine possible. I can sympathize with the germans who were in many ways 'victims of Nazism' I can see that argument but I also think they chose their path. That said I do believe Germany for the most part acknowledges its role in WW2 and the holocaust. Ill watch the show and decide.

One of the biggest complaints and its certainly ahistorical is that it casts the polish resistance as more anti-Semite than the Nazis.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I remember loving we were soldiers. Its very much a pro American movie, though I wouldn't call it a vietnaam war propaganda piece. Its simply a Hollywood movie. That said the most impactful thing about that movie to me is that it truly drives home that for the Vietnamese this wanst something they were dragged into by communist pressure. They were a highly ideological and motivated army that faced an enemy superior in training, arms, airpower, technology and fought them toe to toe powered by sheer determination.

America seriously needs to re-examine its wars. I actually believe that fighting communism was as good a reason as any to start a war given what we know of Stalinism and communism. However they went into Vietnaam with no real objective, had no defined mission and let it drag on and drag on even as study after study was telling American presidents it was pointless. I'm by no means an expert but my understanding is that millions were killed and suffered and treasure was wasted for nothing in the end.

The Nazi party got 33 % and 43% in the last two free elections in Germany. So saying half of Germans were straight up Nazis is hardly a stretch. As for Apartheid, I would imagine that most people whom supported the system back in the day would keep quiet about it now. Obviously you know much more about this than I do, but didn't Apartheid S. Africa have 'free elections' of sorts, with several political parties?

[Macros]

Morgy old chap let me clarify that statement further then.

History is written by historians. Who will either be chroniclers, and therefore more than likely employed by the victors, or historians using evidence and sources from the time. Which will, inevitably, be biased in the victors favour. How many of Julius's enemies wrote a battle report after the legions had trashed them? Not an awful lot.

Until we reach modern history (realistically post modern) everything that is reported is suspect due to the limitations on storage of information, literacy levels and good old fashioned slaughtering of one's enemies.

So whilst yes it is a grammatically flawed statement, it holds up in the broad view of its meaning surely?