[Morgoth]

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

I just looked at a Reddit thread where they compiled results from 500 games. Hacan, Jol-Nar, and Sol were the most successful, while only the Yin did worse than the Saar (and those are the two I'd most want to play ). Nekro was also surprisingly close to the bottom.

Edit: Whoops, I read that table completely wrong. That was percentage of games played. So actually means Saar and Yin were the least popular to play.

I don't understand why they would be less popular, they both look like they'll play in fun and unique ways. Especially the Saar, with your moving factory fleets of death.

[Tapper]

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

 Morgoth, on 08 June 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

I just looked at a Reddit thread where they compiled results from 500 games. Hacan, Jol-Nar, and Sol were the most successful, while only the Yin did worse than the Saar (and those are the two I'd most want to play ). Nekro was also surprisingly close to the bottom.

Yeah, the Yin was my other option and I really wanted to try them out too.

Nekro struggle for two reasons I think: First and foremost, you are entirely dependent on the tech of those around you. What would have happened if I hadn't been able to snag Cruiser II from Nico in the first political phase for instance? Or if you hadn't gone for the GF upgrade.

Secondly, not being able to participate and vote in the political phase is a huge disadvantage.

True. You just seem so insidious (in a good way!) that it's hard not to see Nekro as among the strongest, but being placed adjacent to Spec Ops II was a great boon for you.


Studying their table a bit more, Sardakk may have suffered from the quality of player - only two advanced players chose to play as Sardakk in their stats.

Well, BoardGameGeek has a repository as well, and there, advanced players with Sardakk do slightly worse than beginners with Jol-Nar.
Their order iirc is Jol-Nar, Sol and Hacan.

[Imperial Historian]

Sounds like tapper is doing rather well despite the downsides of his race! Going to be interesting to see what happens if you get into combat with someone.

[Imperial Historian]

I feel like I might have misplayed my race, i can see why they might be popular with advanced players though. I don't really have much of a coherent strategy as most of the phase 2 objectives seem beyond me, and militarily not sure i can compete, at the moment I'm just hoping an opportunity arises!

Being one of the last to pick for a large portion of the game has been a real drag, even worse for Nico I imagine!

[Tattersail_]

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

I feel like I might have misplayed my race, i can see why they might be popular with advanced players though. I don't really have much of a coherent strategy as most of the phase 2 objectives seem beyond me, and militarily not sure i can compete, at the moment I'm just hoping an opportunity arises!

Being one of the last to pick for a large portion of the game has been a real drag, even worse for Nico I imagine!

When one of Gnaw, Tapper or Morgoth has the speaker token to give, make them an offer they cannot refuse?

[D'rek]

Sardakk, Yin, and Winnu's ratings/popularity are also probably lowered by their reputations carried over from 3rd edition, where each of them were considered weaker races. 4th edition hasn't been out for that long, so probably still a lot of reticence towards picking them.

Conversely, Yssaril was by far the best race in 3rd edition, apparently to the point of usually being banned or heavily houseruled by expert players. But now they've been nerfed back down to something more reasonable in 4th edition.

[D'rek]

Anyways, Nico hasn't shown up since like Tuesday so I'm going to just take his turn for him.

[Khellendros]

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Sardakk, Yin, and Winnu's ratings/popularity are also probably lowered by their reputations carried over from 3rd edition, where each of them were considered weaker races. 4th edition hasn't been out for that long, so probably still a lot of reticence towards picking them.

Conversely, Yssaril was by far the best race in 3rd edition, apparently to the point of usually being banned or heavily houseruled by expert players. But now they've been nerfed back down to something more reasonable in 4th edition.

What made them so strong in 3rd?

[twelve]

Drek!!!!!! Well throw out all those provisionals I left you.

[Khellendros]

Well, just where is that cruiser and its lone occupant going?

Edit: I mean, I get moving it out of Moll so you can build more stuff there, but why with the soldier?

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 08 June 2018 - 03:39 PM

[Imperial Historian]

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Sardakk, Yin, and Winnu's ratings/popularity are also probably lowered by their reputations carried over from 3rd edition, where each of them were considered weaker races. 4th edition hasn't been out for that long, so probably still a lot of reticence towards picking them.

Conversely, Yssaril was by far the best race in 3rd edition, apparently to the point of usually being banned or heavily houseruled by expert players. But now they've been nerfed back down to something more reasonable in 4th edition.

What made them so strong in 3rd?

I believe they could 'skip' a turn every other turns, which effectively meant they were nearly always last to act with the corresponding advantages.

Question D'rek, if I draw a secret objective as a secondary do I see it before I play my action or after?

Second can the secret objectives run out since we have more players?

[D'rek]

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

Sardakk, Yin, and Winnu's ratings/popularity are also probably lowered by their reputations carried over from 3rd edition, where each of them were considered weaker races. 4th edition hasn't been out for that long, so probably still a lot of reticence towards picking them.

Conversely, Yssaril was by far the best race in 3rd edition, apparently to the point of usually being banned or heavily houseruled by expert players. But now they've been nerfed back down to something more reasonable in 4th edition.

What made them so strong in 3rd?

They used to be able to skip every second turn for free. So in pretty much every round you would see the Yssaril stall as much as possible and take almost all of their turns after everyone else has passed - able to attack whatever weak system you left open without fear of retaliation, can sit on strategy cards like Leadership until the secondary is useless to everyone, etc.

Now the stalling ability costs an action card, so you're much less incentivized/able to spam it every round. Furthermore, their starting tech was reworked so they can't expand quite as much/as easily at the start of the game. Also, their ability to look at someone else's action cards every round got turned into a technology you have to research first.

[D'rek]

 twelve, on 08 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Drek!!!!!! Well throw out all those provisionals I left you.

I swear, this is actually a Nico-beneficial move, not just spiting you!

[Imperial Historian]

 Khellendros, on 08 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Well, just where is that cruiser and its lone occupant going?

Edit: I mean, I get moving it out of Moll so you can build more stuff there, but why with the soldier?

I think D'rek has effectively captured Nico's chaotic spirit

[D'rek]

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Question D'rek, if I draw a secret objective as a secondary do I see it before I play my action or after?

Yup. If you think it might matter, you can post your turn up to the point of using IMPERIAL secondary and pause there until you see it.

Or, even better, would be to PM me with what your turn is going to be up to that point and I'll show you the new secret objective ahead of time (no takebacksies!)

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Second can the secret objectives run out since we have more players?

It already has

When the SO deck got about two thirds depleted I added six more made-up SOs (all variations on the same style/themes of the real SOs) to the deck and reshuffled it.

There's 3 left now, so I may need to make up a few more.

[Imperial Historian]

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Question D'rek, if I draw a secret objective as a secondary do I see it before I play my action or after?

Yup. If you think it might matter, you can post your turn up to the point of using IMPERIAL secondary and pause there until you see it.

Or, even better, would be to PM me with what your turn is going to be up to that point and I'll show you the new secret objective ahead of time (no takebacksies!)

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Second can the secret objectives run out since we have more players?

It already has

When the SO deck got about two thirds depleted I added six more made-up SOs (all variations on the same style/themes of the real SOs) to the deck and reshuffled it.

There's 3 left now, so I may need to make up a few more.

so there are some secret, secret objectives, nice!

I've PM'd you my move up to imperial secondary.

[D'rek]

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Question D'rek, if I draw a secret objective as a secondary do I see it before I play my action or after?

Yup. If you think it might matter, you can post your turn up to the point of using IMPERIAL secondary and pause there until you see it.

Or, even better, would be to PM me with what your turn is going to be up to that point and I'll show you the new secret objective ahead of time (no takebacksies!)

 Imperial Historian, on 08 June 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Second can the secret objectives run out since we have more players?

It already has

When the SO deck got about two thirds depleted I added six more made-up SOs (all variations on the same style/themes of the real SOs) to the deck and reshuffled it.

There's 3 left now, so I may need to make up a few more.

so there are some secret, secret objectives, nice!

I've PM'd you my move up to imperial secondary.

Yesss, ultra-super-duper-secret!!! Don't worry, none of them are "I control IH's home system and also called him disparaging names on-thread". Probably.

[Gnaw]

 twelve, on 08 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Drek!!!!!! Well throw out all those provisionals I left you.

Yeah. That is ...odd.

[twelve]

 D, on 08 June 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

 twelve, on 08 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Drek!!!!!! Well throw out all those provisionals I left you.

I swear, this is actually a Nico-beneficial move, not just spiting you!

Oh I know and am not accusing you of using insider info against me be but now I think I can't move those ships as you have blocked both the wormhole exit and my held system.

Tatts for all my talk of stopping you from taking Abyz/Fria, I swear I was moving my ships my next action, Drek has the provisional to prove it but now that Nico blocked my escape route I have to wait for a path to clear up which is very unlikely or I have to get creative which requires a round or two more before I can leave.

Is there a way for me to compensate you to help pay for this and not attack me? I can give you my research pn when Tapper uses it to help with some of the tech onjectives?

[twelve]

 Gnaw, on 08 June 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

 twelve, on 08 June 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Drek!!!!!! Well throw out all those provisionals I left you.

Yeah. That is ...odd.

I had the rest of my round planned out if Morgoth used technology as his next action which I suspect he will and Tatts desperately needs.