[D'rek]

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

[Blend]

Khellendros, on 23 April 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

No, I assumed 'status phase' related to when you could claim completing that objective. That is, we completed it in the action phase, but can't claim it until the status phase. I was certainly intending to claim it. How would you spend command tokens during the status phase anyway?

I remember D'rek saying early game that to earn the "Erect a monument" objective, we have to spend the resources when we claim the objective (i.e. during the Status phase) - presumably, we would spend command tokens the same way?

I mean, otherwise I think ItWasGnaw might be the only ones who haven't met the requirements for that objective this round?

[Tattersail_]

I assumed that you have to give up 3 CT's to gain that objective in the status phase. I'd assume no one could afford it other than maybe Tapper or Morgoth who both have more CT's than most.

[Blend]

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

Damn - I spent the entire round expecting I'd be able to pick up that objective during the Status phase, so I freaked out a bit when neither of those who had already posted their status phase had claimed it. Owell!

[D'rek]

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

D'rek will you check over my status to make sure i've done it correctly?

You've got < 5/4 C | 0 TG > but should be < 1/4 C | 0 TG > , non?

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Gnaw you may want to change your action card number as you will be getting one this stage.

Please

Do the commodities not replenish each round? I had 1/4 and just added the 4, not sure what happens with them or how they regenerate.

They only regenerate when using the Trade primary and/or secondary abilities.

^^this

Also note how it doesn't say "replenish commodities" anywhere in here:


1) Score Objectives
2) Reveal Public Objective
3) Draw Action Cards
4) Remove Command Tokens
5) Gain and Redistribute (Command) Tokens
6) Ready Cards
7) Repair Units
8) Return Strategy Cards

[Tattersail_]

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

Yes, correct. It would be too easy to claim the VP otherwise.

[Tattersail_]

I had already updated the commodities part of my post

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

Yes, correct. It would be too easy to claim the VP otherwise.

Well, it was one of the first so I assumed it was like an 'easier' VP

So HOW do you do it? Do you literally just surrender three command tokens?

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 23 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

Yes, correct. It would be too easy to claim the VP otherwise.

Well, it was one of the first so I assumed it was like an 'easier' VP

So HOW do you do it? Do you literally just surrender three command tokens?

Exactly. Just so happens you can pick 3 up from the leadership card. Coincidence?

[D'rek]

If you want to think about it thematically, all those command tokens you spent on actions throughout the action phase was you spending government time and bureaucratic resources into... well, just running your government. Updating star charts, planning fleet movements, appointing civil servants, delivering health care, whatever. Basic empire operations.

You know who's impressed by that? Nobody.

To ordinary Space Joe living on Jord, that's just the status quo. The economy might be booming and Joe might be happy about that, he might even be patriotically proud that there's a new Dreadnought fleet or whatever, but it's not far outside the daily norm. And if ordinary Space Joe on Jord isn't all that impressed, then ordinary Space J'ork in the Sardakk empire sure isn't going to be impressed by the daily bureaucracy of some humans running their own affairs.

But what if for one month the Jord don't just run their ordinary government, but also heavily invest their empire's government resources into grand displays of their superiority? Huge government boons are given out, a new program brings every elementary school classroom on a free trip through the Quann wormhole and back aboard a Dreadnought, Jordian celebrities are sent to perform Space Rock concerts in every other empire, all foreign embassies have their staff tripled, the government gets Space Coke to make a sensational "I want to buy the galaxy a coke" ad campaign that goes more viral than the Nekro, etc. THAT gets the attention of ordinary Space J'ork. THAT gets people thinking "Oh, maybe President Khell would make a good Emperor. Maybe the Jord could be the next Lazax."

VP represent your legitimacy to become Emperor of the entire Galaxy. You can't just use CTs normally like you would any ol' day and like how everyone else is using them and get VP for them. You have to *waste* them on frivolous affairs that boost your prestige.

Likewise for Erect a Monument - you can't just build some ships and get 1 VP of prestige, you need to *waste* 8 resources on building a five-million-mile-wide novelty Space Erection to showcase how awesome you are if you want to get points.

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 23 April 2018 - 03:27 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 23 April 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 03:06 PM, said:

I assume that given no one has claimed it yet, in order to claim the Lead from the Front objective, we would actually have to spend those tokens during status phase in addition to those we spent during the action phase? I.E. the fact that we almost all spent at least 3 tokens during the action phase doesn't mean we get to claim that objective, we would have to spend them during the status phase specifically to claim the objective?

Right. Any "do a thing" public objective means you do it at the exact moment you claim the objective, and only for the sake of fulfilling that objective. Doing a similar thing earlier in the game is moot.

Yes, correct. It would be too easy to claim the VP otherwise.

Well, it was one of the first so I assumed it was like an 'easier' VP

So HOW do you do it? Do you literally just surrender three command tokens?

Exactly. Just so happens you can pick 3 up from the leadership card. Coincidence?

Yes? I mean, I now consider this (and the monument one) a profoundly dumb objective. Should you not be rewarded for your actions during the game, rather than, you know, pretty much literally buying those VPs?

[Imperial Historian]

Think I've done mine right. Public objectives are a lot harder to get than i thought, makes sense.

Nico now we are neighbouring want to do any deals?

I'm intending to claim gwynan this turn, but won't be claiming any other systems so you are welcome to them.

Happy to talk deals if you want, I'm imagining you will want to neighbour as many people as possible early on to use your space pirate ability?

Happy to hand you my support for the throne pn for your ceasefire or special pn, or something else to keep good relations. Don't particularly want to get bogged down in a war neither of us will come out well from, and your silence and a bunch of dreads appearing is looking a tad threatening.

[Khellendros]

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

If you want to think about it thematically, all those command tokens you spent on actions throughout the action phase was you spending government time and bureaucratic resources into... well, just running your government. Updating star charts, planning fleet movements, appointing civil servants, delivering health care, whatever. Basic empire operations.

You know who's impressed by that? Nobody.

To ordinary Space Joe living on Jord, that's just the status quo. The economy might be booming and Joe might be happy about that, he might even be patriotically proud that there's a new Dreadnought fleet or whatever, but it's not far outside the daily norm. And if ordinary Space Joe on Jord isn't all that impressed, then ordinary Space J'ork in the Sardakk empire sure isn't going to be impressed by the daily bureaucracy of some humans running their own affairs.

But what if for one month the Jord don't just run their ordinary government, but also heavily invest their empire's government resources into grand displays of their superiority? Huge government boons are given out, a new program brings every elementary school classroom on a free trip through the Quann wormhole and back aboard a Dreadnought, Jordian celebrities are sent to perform Space Rock concerts in every other empire, all foreign embassies have their staff tripled, the government gets Space Coke to make a sensational "I want to buy the galaxy a coke" ad campaign that goes more viral than the Nekro, etc. THAT gets the attention of ordinary Space J'ork. THAT gets people thinking "Oh, maybe President Khell would make a good Emperor. Maybe the Jord could be the next Lazax."

VP represent your legitimacy to become Emperor of the entire Galaxy. You can't just use CTs normally like you would any ol' day and like how everyone else is using them and get VP for them. You have to *waste* them on frivolous affairs that boost your prestige.

Likewise for Erect a Monument - you can't just build some ships and get 1 VP of prestige, you need to *waste* 8 resources on building a five-million-mile-wide novelty Space Erection to showcase how awesome you are if you want to get points.

So winning the game comes down to crashing your economy and politics in order to save up enough to make grandiose but ultimately empty purchases?

I mean, sure, that might be true to life, but if so it makes the experience of winning feel like it would be somewhat shallow right now.

And yeah, I know that not all VPs are status phase purchases (or at least I hope that not all public objectives are), and I'm probably making too big a deal of this, but even so, this comes as my first disappointment with the game mechanics so far.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 23 April 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

If you want to think about it thematically, all those command tokens you spent on actions throughout the action phase was you spending government time and bureaucratic resources into... well, just running your government. Updating star charts, planning fleet movements, appointing civil servants, delivering health care, whatever. Basic empire operations.

You know who's impressed by that? Nobody.

To ordinary Space Joe living on Jord, that's just the status quo. The economy might be booming and Joe might be happy about that, he might even be patriotically proud that there's a new Dreadnought fleet or whatever, but it's not far outside the daily norm. And if ordinary Space Joe on Jord isn't all that impressed, then ordinary Space J'ork in the Sardakk empire sure isn't going to be impressed by the daily bureaucracy of some humans running their own affairs.

But what if for one month the Jord don't just run their ordinary government, but also heavily invest their empire's government resources into grand displays of their superiority? Huge government boons are given out, a new program brings every elementary school classroom on a free trip through the Quann wormhole and back aboard a Dreadnought, Jordian celebrities are sent to perform Space Rock concerts in every other empire, all foreign embassies have their staff tripled, the government gets Space Coke to make a sensational "I want to buy the galaxy a coke" ad campaign that goes more viral than the Nekro, etc. THAT gets the attention of ordinary Space J'ork. THAT gets people thinking "Oh, maybe President Khell would make a good Emperor. Maybe the Jord could be the next Lazax."

VP represent your legitimacy to become Emperor of the entire Galaxy. You can't just use CTs normally like you would any ol' day and like how everyone else is using them and get VP for them. You have to *waste* them on frivolous affairs that boost your prestige.

Likewise for Erect a Monument - you can't just build some ships and get 1 VP of prestige, you need to *waste* 8 resources on building a five-million-mile-wide novelty Space Erection to showcase how awesome you are if you want to get points.

So winning the game comes down to crashing your economy and politics in order to save up enough to make grandiose but ultimately empty purchases?

I mean, sure, that might be true to life, but if so it makes the experience of winning feel like it would be somewhat shallow right now.

And yeah, I know that not all VPs are status phase purchases (or at least I hope that not all public objectives are), and I'm probably making too big a deal of this, but even so, this comes as my first disappointment with the game mechanics so far.

You can only get one objective/vp per turn, so it's not like someone can really afford to lose 3 CT's on any given turn because it weakens you a lot. If it was me giving them up right now I'd manage 1 maybe 2 turns next round but i'd be ripe for invasion from anyone really.

[D'rek]

Khellendros, on 23 April 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

D, on 23 April 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

If you want to think about it thematically, all those command tokens you spent on actions throughout the action phase was you spending government time and bureaucratic resources into... well, just running your government. Updating star charts, planning fleet movements, appointing civil servants, delivering health care, whatever. Basic empire operations.

You know who's impressed by that? Nobody.

To ordinary Space Joe living on Jord, that's just the status quo. The economy might be booming and Joe might be happy about that, he might even be patriotically proud that there's a new Dreadnought fleet or whatever, but it's not far outside the daily norm. And if ordinary Space Joe on Jord isn't all that impressed, then ordinary Space J'ork in the Sardakk empire sure isn't going to be impressed by the daily bureaucracy of some humans running their own affairs.

But what if for one month the Jord don't just run their ordinary government, but also heavily invest their empire's government resources into grand displays of their superiority? Huge government boons are given out, a new program brings every elementary school classroom on a free trip through the Quann wormhole and back aboard a Dreadnought, Jordian celebrities are sent to perform Space Rock concerts in every other empire, all foreign embassies have their staff tripled, the government gets Space Coke to make a sensational "I want to buy the galaxy a coke" ad campaign that goes more viral than the Nekro, etc. THAT gets the attention of ordinary Space J'ork. THAT gets people thinking "Oh, maybe President Khell would make a good Emperor. Maybe the Jord could be the next Lazax."

VP represent your legitimacy to become Emperor of the entire Galaxy. You can't just use CTs normally like you would any ol' day and like how everyone else is using them and get VP for them. You have to *waste* them on frivolous affairs that boost your prestige.

Likewise for Erect a Monument - you can't just build some ships and get 1 VP of prestige, you need to *waste* 8 resources on building a five-million-mile-wide novelty Space Erection to showcase how awesome you are if you want to get points.

So winning the game comes down to crashing your economy and politics in order to save up enough to make grandiose but ultimately empty purchases?

I mean, sure, that might be true to life, but if so it makes the experience of winning feel like it would be somewhat shallow right now.

And yeah, I know that not all VPs are status phase purchases (or at least I hope that not all public objectives are), and I'm probably making too big a deal of this, but even so, this comes as my first disappointment with the game mechanics so far.

It doesn't necessarily have to require crashing your own economy/politics. The public objectives are roughly split equally into "spend this", "have this subset of technologies" and "control this number/circumstance of planets". You can also choose to focus on secret objectives for just under a third of your points. There's also some VP acquirable through Agendas, and as we've already seen some acquirable through promissory notes, too. And of course there's controlling Mecatol Rex + Imperial Strategy.

Or you can try winning by wiping out the rest of the board. It's technically possible (but you'd probably be better off stopping halfway and just using the bajillion planets you have to quickly amass points).


All that being said, there does seem to be less variety and perhaps less "flavour" to the public objectives in TI4 versus TI3. I wanted to houserule as little as possible in this game since it's just the first time, but if there were to be a 2nd ME-TI4 game that's definitely an area we could look at adding more variety or changing the mechanics of entirely (TI3 also had a different VP system you could use where all 10 public objectives were available from the start).

[Blend]

It's also weird, we could all just say PASS this round after doing the primaries, and everyone could just spend a round collecting those primaries. Anyone who decides NOT to pass MAY get a leg up on preparing to claim OTHER objectives that may come up, but they'd then be like 1 or 2 VP behind anyway.

I have to second Khell's disappointment with this part of the mechanics.

Am otherwise really enjoying this game though!

[Imperial Historian]

Should you be on 2t 2f and 2s blend?

Can't follow how you have so many ct.

[Blend]

Imperial Historian, on 23 April 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

Should you be on 2t 2f and 2s blend?

Can't follow how you have so many ct.

I bought 1 from the Leadership secondary before passing, moved 1 from my fleet pool (which had 3 in it) to Strategic, and then used the 2 command tokens I get from the Status phase (like everyone else) to add 2 to my tactical pool, so 2, 2, 2.

[Blend]

Blend, on 23 April 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 23 April 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

Should you be on 2t 2f and 2s blend?

Can't follow how you have so many ct.

I bought 1 from the Leadership secondary before passing, moved 1 from my fleet pool (which had 3 in it) to Strategic, and then used the 2 command tokens I get from the Status phase (like everyone else) to add 2 to my tactical pool, so 2, 2, 2.

Just noticed I was showing as being at 2,3,2, though, so I've updated that to show the correct amounts!

[Morgoth]

yeah, victory points aint easy. That's the point. Saving resources to the end of the round is hard, but victory points is what wins the game. Not systems and not ships.