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Wow, there were alot of really good points made in this thread, and I'm gonna go ahead and bring it back, because I think there are a few things that need a little bit more discussion.
First of all, did K'rul PHYSICALLY take the warrens inside of himself, or is it more metaphorically? The blood is a good argument toward physicality, but are there any other signs?
Second, did the warrens exist before-hand, or did he actually create them inside himself?
Third, what of the thoughts that the beasts came before even the gods? That was brought up, and summarily moved past, but I think it's actually quite important.
Fourth, can we have some musings on what would happen if K'rul died?
Fifth (and I asked this in my newest post, which I'll now ignore in favor of this one), what effect does it have on K'rul when new warrens are formed?
And in comment form rather than question form, I wonder if it's possible that all the warrens are, at heart, chaos, and that K'rul is the lens through which the chaos is refined into usable forms. A prism, if you will. Going in is chaos (white light), and coming out are the warrens (separated colors). Thoughts?
the warrens of K'rul
#62
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Posted 13 December 2005 - 06:44 PM
My take: Krul didn't create the warrens, and he didn't take them into himself...
he ORGANIZED them.
The powers and realms were already there. He just moved them around into a more workable form.
Everything else ("We swim in your blood...") is just figurative speach for something beyond simple comprehension.
- Abyss, wonders if Krul employs lifeguards.
he ORGANIZED them.
The powers and realms were already there. He just moved them around into a more workable form.
Everything else ("We swim in your blood...") is just figurative speach for something beyond simple comprehension.
- Abyss, wonders if Krul employs lifeguards.
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#63
Tiger_sword
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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:17 PM
i think that K'rul is a little arrogent and that was just him being big headed. He saw the raw natural power (of most likely the holds) and moulded them into the warrens. In order to do this he had to use his "body" to sculpt the warrens.
Thats what i rekon anyway
Thats what i rekon anyway
#64
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Posted 15 December 2005 - 10:05 AM
Regarding Mael, his warren or aspect..
from MT - "The Tiste Edur call the dark waters the realm of Galain, which is said to belong to kin, for whom darkness is home."
from MT - "The Tiste Edur call the dark waters the realm of Galain, which is said to belong to kin, for whom darkness is home."
#65 Guest_Cabs_*
Posted 19 December 2005 - 07:06 AM
Ok i see it this way:
First there was darkness which was all encompossing, for their is nothing else to stand in oppersition to it which in turn means order.
Then comes light created by chaos and inturn creating chaos by standing in oppersition to dark. Light is NOT chaos for if their was only light their would be order.
Darkness is not absloute or there would be no light. And light is not absolute or their would be no darkness. So darkness and light oppose each other from the essance(MD and FL would be a personifcation of these essances created later by living beings) of themselves where they are in complete control (this essence is what the Holds/warrens of darkness and light are later fromed/created from).
Now this creates a middle ground between the two which is shadow which also has a essance but it is made up of part of both and therefore is weaker because it relies on the other two.
Now because light and dark are resisting each other(because they must to survive) it creates chaos which is all encompossing around and between these essences in strugle. It is the strugle which sustains chaos.
First there was darkness which was all encompossing, for their is nothing else to stand in oppersition to it which in turn means order.
Then comes light created by chaos and inturn creating chaos by standing in oppersition to dark. Light is NOT chaos for if their was only light their would be order.
Darkness is not absloute or there would be no light. And light is not absolute or their would be no darkness. So darkness and light oppose each other from the essance(MD and FL would be a personifcation of these essances created later by living beings) of themselves where they are in complete control (this essence is what the Holds/warrens of darkness and light are later fromed/created from).
Now this creates a middle ground between the two which is shadow which also has a essance but it is made up of part of both and therefore is weaker because it relies on the other two.
Now because light and dark are resisting each other(because they must to survive) it creates chaos which is all encompossing around and between these essences in strugle. It is the strugle which sustains chaos.
#66
Folken
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Posted 19 December 2005 - 07:08 AM
Hetan said:
Regarding Mael, his warren or aspect..
from MT - "The Tiste Edur call the dark waters the realm of Galain, which is said to belong to kin, for whom darkness is home."
from MT - "The Tiste Edur call the dark waters the realm of Galain, which is said to belong to kin, for whom darkness is home."
:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Anyone else remember the Reference in Gardens of the Moon made to Galain!!
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Posted 19 December 2005 - 08:27 AM
are you thinking of the Galayn lord?
#68
Folken
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Posted 19 December 2005 - 02:23 PM
Nvm...lol
Looked it up. The name is Grallin...
I got excited for nothing...
Looked it up. The name is Grallin...
I got excited for nothing...
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#69 Guest_BAD_*
Posted 20 December 2005 - 06:37 AM
Jen said:
Nvm...lol
Looked it up. The name is Grallin... I got excited for nothing...
Looked it up. The name is Grallin...
I got excited for nothing...Aye, the only bit that refers to the title of the book. Weird that no-one remembered it. Stuck in my head did that, was a nice moment betwen Apsalar and Crokus.
#70
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 21 December 2005 - 02:08 PM
I've said it before (elsewhere) and I'll say it again: look to Feather Witch! The spiteful little harpie may have blabbered something worth noting when she was casting her tiles.
I recall something about there being an eternal struggle between Dark and Chaos (or that may have just been my interpretation...haven't seen my books for months now). She mentioned something about entities flung about in mayhem. It may very well be that some of these entities (who must be uber powerful indeed to survive that maelstrom) survived and remained in the realm that ensued- hence a possible explanation for Togg and Fanderay; maybe even K'rul and the Elders. What is a warren at its most basic? Nothing but a repository of power (Icarium had them in his arrowheads, Meanas may hold an entire realm....but they all share that common characteristic). Darkness seems to have given something of herself and hence came Light (Kurald Thryllan). Then she did something again which seemed to create shadow (Kurald Emurlahnn....angering her children). Feather Witch went on about the Errant creating some structure and giving rise to the Azath etc. She did mention that there was some titanic wars in those early days involving the Beast Hold (Togg and Fanderay?).
Finally, can someone please look in HoC where Osric takes Loric to find his new familiar? Where were they? Was it between the warrens? I have some vague notion of Hairlock also plying the ways between warrens.... As for SD being chaotic, without a doubt. I think it was when Rake attacked the Tenescowri (or was it at Pale?) that someone noted his sorcery as SD- the mane of chaos.
I recall something about there being an eternal struggle between Dark and Chaos (or that may have just been my interpretation...haven't seen my books for months now). She mentioned something about entities flung about in mayhem. It may very well be that some of these entities (who must be uber powerful indeed to survive that maelstrom) survived and remained in the realm that ensued- hence a possible explanation for Togg and Fanderay; maybe even K'rul and the Elders. What is a warren at its most basic? Nothing but a repository of power (Icarium had them in his arrowheads, Meanas may hold an entire realm....but they all share that common characteristic). Darkness seems to have given something of herself and hence came Light (Kurald Thryllan). Then she did something again which seemed to create shadow (Kurald Emurlahnn....angering her children). Feather Witch went on about the Errant creating some structure and giving rise to the Azath etc. She did mention that there was some titanic wars in those early days involving the Beast Hold (Togg and Fanderay?).
Finally, can someone please look in HoC where Osric takes Loric to find his new familiar? Where were they? Was it between the warrens? I have some vague notion of Hairlock also plying the ways between warrens.... As for SD being chaotic, without a doubt. I think it was when Rake attacked the Tenescowri (or was it at Pale?) that someone noted his sorcery as SD- the mane of chaos.
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