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i liked the way he throttled him and then forced him into the warren
do you like captain paran?
#22 Guest_poison_fox_*
Posted 21 September 2005 - 11:22 PM
Personaly I don't think Paran's all that much like the spoilt noble brat that he wants to avoid, he's had the benefit of a nobles education sure but that makes him smart, not just looking for shortcuts.
He used Lorn to get where he wanted to be, all power to him.
By the way, just so you know, Paran most definetly rocks.
He used Lorn to get where he wanted to be, all power to him.
By the way, just so you know, Paran most definetly rocks.
#23
Trotts 
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Posted 21 September 2005 - 11:31 PM
the one thing is, hes sorta the only noble in the military who is intelligent. maybe im just not thinking of anyone else but i dunno. like the noble office for fiddler/strings company was such a jerk
#24
Morgoth
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 07:28 AM
But thats pretty much historically correct. History has pretty much shown us that nobleborn officers who climb through ranks because of birth rather than experience can cause a lot of havoc within their own ranks...
Hm, you say that Paran acts like a typical noble in that he uses his .. er.. relationship with Lorn to be appointed captain of the bridgeburners, but as far as i've understood it, he would have climbed much faster through the ranks if he used his connections to gain a position in the capitol.
Hm, you say that Paran acts like a typical noble in that he uses his .. er.. relationship with Lorn to be appointed captain of the bridgeburners, but as far as i've understood it, he would have climbed much faster through the ranks if he used his connections to gain a position in the capitol.
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#26
Hume
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 08:37 AM
CountChocula said:
the one thing is, hes sorta the only noble in the military who is intelligent. maybe im just not thinking of anyone else but i dunno. like the noble office for fiddler/strings company was such a jerk
Lemme point you out to Capatain Hareb in MoI Eleventh Company Second army under Dujek. He is a Seven cities Nobleborn who is given praise by Dujek in siege where until the T'lan Aye Turn up the humans are basically getting screwed.
Also the much more prominant Nobleborn Captain Sulmar in Deadhouse gates that commanded a company in the Chain of Dogs. While not described as one of the best of the captains he still would have been a decent captain to have not screwed up or anything like in something as perilous as the chain of dogs.
#27 Guest_Wraith_*
Posted 22 September 2005 - 11:49 AM
Roland, what makes you say he did not want to be captain of the bridgeburners, I was under the impression that it was meant to be his reward for serving Lorn.
I agree morgoth that he could have been higher up, (I think I recall him saying he could have been a fist by now) but my point is he would rather have been an officer of the bridgeburners than Have a higher rank elsewhere.
I think Parans a jerk, the only useful thing I recall him doing in his role as captain of the bridgeburners was fly mallet over to heal trotts at the white face camp.
And even this was hardly a stroke of military genius considering he knew Trotts was going to be in a fight with a barghast champion.
I agree morgoth that he could have been higher up, (I think I recall him saying he could have been a fist by now) but my point is he would rather have been an officer of the bridgeburners than Have a higher rank elsewhere.
I think Parans a jerk, the only useful thing I recall him doing in his role as captain of the bridgeburners was fly mallet over to heal trotts at the white face camp.
And even this was hardly a stroke of military genius considering he knew Trotts was going to be in a fight with a barghast champion.
#28 Guest_Ganoes_*
Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:06 PM
Wraith said:
Roland, what makes you say he did not want to be captain of the bridgeburners, I was under the impression that it was meant to be his reward for serving Lorn.
I agree morgoth that he could have been higher up, (I think I recall him saying he could have been a fist by now) but my point is he would rather have been an officer of the bridgeburners than Have a higher rank elsewhere.
I think Parans a jerk, the only useful thing I recall him doing in his role as captain of the bridgeburners was fly mallet over to heal trotts at the white face camp.
And even this was hardly a stroke of military genius considering he knew Trotts was going to be in a fight with a barghast champion.
I agree morgoth that he could have been higher up, (I think I recall him saying he could have been a fist by now) but my point is he would rather have been an officer of the bridgeburners than Have a higher rank elsewhere.
I think Parans a jerk, the only useful thing I recall him doing in his role as captain of the bridgeburners was fly mallet over to heal trotts at the white face camp.
And even this was hardly a stroke of military genius considering he knew Trotts was going to be in a fight with a barghast champion.
Wraith and Hume you are really biased in your opinions about tha captain!!
1. Being the commanding officer of the Bridgeburners wasn't meant to be his reward for serving Lorn!!! Go read another time Gardens of the Moon!!!
He had an offcial role in the army and that was being the helper of Lorn!
If he wanted to make career easily he would have used the influence of his family!!!!
2. Paran was new to his role... in that role, especially in Memories of Ice, he has made the difference many times, especially with the Barghast and helping Quick Ben!
3. Paran at the end Of MoI is admired by his men
#30
Cluracan AbSylvas
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 06:01 PM
I would suggest that Paran was already well and truly a Bridgeburner... and was already earning respect from the rank and file at the end of GOTM. Look at his interaction with Kalam, Whiskeyjack and QB in the closing pages of GOTM.
This is where he, and the Bridgeburners, decided that he belonged. One of his first conscious choices after escaping Lorn's and Oponn's influence. Having the blessing of Dujek and Whiskeyjack didn't hurt either.
-- Clu
This is where he, and the Bridgeburners, decided that he belonged. One of his first conscious choices after escaping Lorn's and Oponn's influence. Having the blessing of Dujek and Whiskeyjack didn't hurt either.
-- Clu
#31
Trotts
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Posted 22 September 2005 - 07:08 PM
i knew there some good ones hume, but i couldnt remember them for the life of me, hehe thanks!
again, paran isnt some amazing super captain. but he isnt aloof, he doesnt consider himself any better then any of those in his command. if you look specifically at what he did then ya, he wasent all that great. but read his 'soliloquies' and (if i remember correctly) he struggles with nearly ever decision he makes as captain. he wants to use the bridgeburners to their full potential but he doesnt want any of them to get killed at all. as well, he always felt like an outsider because they all had connections and history and he was just another nobleborn capn
again, paran isnt some amazing super captain. but he isnt aloof, he doesnt consider himself any better then any of those in his command. if you look specifically at what he did then ya, he wasent all that great. but read his 'soliloquies' and (if i remember correctly) he struggles with nearly ever decision he makes as captain. he wants to use the bridgeburners to their full potential but he doesnt want any of them to get killed at all. as well, he always felt like an outsider because they all had connections and history and he was just another nobleborn capn
#32
Hume
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Posted 23 September 2005 - 01:32 AM
@ Ganoes
How exaclty am I biased ?
I am entitled to an opinion. In fact I only made 1 post on paran so far which said I just dont like him.
yes I agree with the fact that at the end of MoI he would have been considered a bridgeburner.
but like CountChocula said he ISNT some amazing super captain, he just did a decent job. IMHO Paran is no where near the league of Bult, Lull, Chenned even Keneb and Sulmer.
In fact one could even argue that for the most part he was no good at relating to the men under his command this is evident when hedge and Antsy talk about taking him out. That was until of course after Caputstan and further down the track it got better it appeared.
And Ganoes where exaclty do I disagree with your points ? previous to this post ?
You cant expect to everyone to love that character.
@ Wraith.
That comment on Paran being a fist ?
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
How exaclty am I biased ?
I am entitled to an opinion. In fact I only made 1 post on paran so far which said I just dont like him.
yes I agree with the fact that at the end of MoI he would have been considered a bridgeburner.
but like CountChocula said he ISNT some amazing super captain, he just did a decent job. IMHO Paran is no where near the league of Bult, Lull, Chenned even Keneb and Sulmer.
In fact one could even argue that for the most part he was no good at relating to the men under his command this is evident when hedge and Antsy talk about taking him out. That was until of course after Caputstan and further down the track it got better it appeared.
And Ganoes where exaclty do I disagree with your points ? previous to this post ?
You cant expect to everyone to love that character.
@ Wraith.
That comment on Paran being a fist ?
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
#33
Omras Ghum
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Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:32 AM
HUME said:
That comment on Paran being a fist ?
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
I too remember Paran to have said so in one of the books - if he he'd used his connections he would by then have become a fist in unta or somewhere like that - just reread all the books so i can't tell in which it was but i am certain he mentioned it.
#34
Tiger_sword
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Posted 23 September 2005 - 10:35 AM
I think that he would rather work his way up winning the respect of the soldiers rather than just bribe his way up. Paran is actually a rather noble character who is more worried about what other people think. He wants to change the world. Now he has been given the chance.
#35 Guest_Ganoes_*
Posted 23 September 2005 - 01:28 PM
HUME said:
@ Ganoes
How exaclty am I biased ?
I am entitled to an opinion. In fact I only made 1 post on paran so far which said I just dont like him.
yes I agree with the fact that at the end of MoI he would have been considered a bridgeburner.
but like CountChocula said he ISNT some amazing super captain, he just did a decent job. IMHO Paran is no where near the league of Bult, Lull, Chenned even Keneb and Sulmer.
In fact one could even argue that for the most part he was no good at relating to the men under his command this is evident when hedge and Antsy talk about taking him out. That was until of course after Caputstan and further down the track it got better it appeared.
And Ganoes where exaclty do I disagree with your points ? previous to this post ?
You cant expect to everyone to love that character.
@ Wraith.
That comment on Paran being a fist ?
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
How exaclty am I biased ?
I am entitled to an opinion. In fact I only made 1 post on paran so far which said I just dont like him.
yes I agree with the fact that at the end of MoI he would have been considered a bridgeburner.
but like CountChocula said he ISNT some amazing super captain, he just did a decent job. IMHO Paran is no where near the league of Bult, Lull, Chenned even Keneb and Sulmer.
In fact one could even argue that for the most part he was no good at relating to the men under his command this is evident when hedge and Antsy talk about taking him out. That was until of course after Caputstan and further down the track it got better it appeared.
And Ganoes where exaclty do I disagree with your points ? previous to this post ?
You cant expect to everyone to love that character.
@ Wraith.
That comment on Paran being a fist ?
Please, the guy is only 23-28 years old depending on how you interpret dates and descriptions. I wouldnt for one second ever buy that.
he would be a fist for sure, exactly as his sister who became in no time (and little training) the most important commander of all the malazan army!!!
#36
Tiste Simeon
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Posted 23 September 2005 - 02:00 PM
no i donae like him.
Though mainly just to annoy Folken/Jen'isand Rul...
Though mainly just to annoy Folken/Jen'isand Rul...
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
#37
Hume
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Posted 24 September 2005 - 04:32 AM
Ganoes said:
as his sister who became in no time (and little training) the most important commander of all the malazan army!!!
Please. I dont even buy that.
If i was laseen I would regard Dujek as my most important commander of the malazan army.
Reread the part where Tavore gets the report of Dujeks army getting smashed in Coral and how they (the malazans) didnt anticipate that happening and then she realizes that Laseen really wanted Dujek to take overall command of taking out the Whirlwind rebellion.
#38 Guest_Ganoes_*
Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:21 PM
HUME said:
Please. I dont even buy that.
If i was laseen I would regard Dujek as my most important commander of the malazan army.
Reread the part where Tavore gets the report of Dujeks army getting smashed in Coral and how they (the malazans) didnt anticipate that happening and then she realizes that Laseen really wanted Dujek to take overall command of taking out the Whirlwind rebellion.
If i was laseen I would regard Dujek as my most important commander of the malazan army.
Reread the part where Tavore gets the report of Dujeks army getting smashed in Coral and how they (the malazans) didnt anticipate that happening and then she realizes that Laseen really wanted Dujek to take overall command of taking out the Whirlwind rebellion.
Sorry, but is she not commanding the greatest malazan army?
#39 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:34 PM
I dont like him much.
Between all the other over the top characters in the malazan world he seems very dull and he isnt very good at anything.
Between all the other over the top characters in the malazan world he seems very dull and he isnt very good at anything.
#40
Hume
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Posted 24 September 2005 - 01:42 PM
Ganoes said:
Sorry, but is she not commanding the greatest malazan army?
Umm. I have argued a fair number of statements on these boards, but that would have to be one of the dumbest I've seen.
Please tell exactly how many real engagements the Malazan 14th have fought in ?
NONE.
Majority of which are Green soldiers, as well.
If I were to put Dujeks 3-4 thousand soldiers up against Tavore's 10 thousand (that is exluding her added Khundral), I would put my money on Dujeks army ANY day.
In fact I have already gone over this argument very thourally on how Tavore comes no where near some of the other commanders the malazans have had. Its been deleted in the forum move unfortunately.
