[Mythodikal]

I agree with so much that has been said here. The first few MBOTF books were so amazing, obviously Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, and Midnight Tides were the types of books that you just never forget. I've read each multiple times and drive my wife crazy by listening to the audio books going to bed.

House of Chains was spectacular as well, and is most series it would be the stand out. Compared to the Holy three though, it falls just short (but again, still fantastic!). In The Bonehuntters you started to see a bit of a shift but there was still plenty of reward and plenty marines. Reapers Gale was one that really just held the line. The development of where things left off in Midnight Tides, you got what you needed. I feel like Toll the Hounds was the cosmic shift. That was the first SE book that I really struggled at points and moved to skimming sections, something I normally only do on 2nd or more often a 3rd read.

Dust of Dreams we were sold on it being a build up book. In total Robert Jordan fashion this book created brand new story lines... very introspective story lines. Were they that introspective though? It was really in this book that I noticed I was reading a message, instead of feeling the characters that I had come to love over a decade.

By the time we got to The Crippled God I was thrilled to experience the finale, and though many things were tied up, there was just so much... stuff. So many secondary characters that were created to be huge rolls in the finale, in turn, pushing aside the characters that we want getting the main screen time. Please, I beg you! Tell me more about the Shake! Ugh.

Let's take a quick side step to the ICE series. Without going into as much detail as the SE books, he did an admirable job trying to make his name. It's like he was caught somewhere between where SE started in the first few books, and where SE finished off. He had awesome characters, some of the best characters to fill out (obviously The Crimson Guard being the be all end all!). It seemed like he was trying to get the meat and the answers that we wanted, but would fall into stretches trying to match SE's new philosophical tone. Overall I enjoyed them, but at times they tried too hard.

That brings us back to SE and the Kharkanas trilogy. After reading the first book I started a thread on here titled "A little too didactic?". Where I'm sure most of us when hearing of this trilogy were dreaming of a lot more Anomander, more Silchas, more mother dark, more of the nitty gritty, really focusing on the main players. Instead we got more fringe players, the plight of the whoever and diatribe after diatribe about what is right, what is good, what is moral, etc. All sprinkled with tiny, and I mean tiny segments that were absolutely awesome, views into the history that we were hoping for! Then read another 75 pages about whining to get 3 more awesome pages.

Fall of Light: see everything in the last paragraph. Maybe some more reveals, and a clumsy battle scene that was so underwhelming. Mostly more and more characters that are completely interchangeable because they all have the same tragic ark. I don't even know if I can call it tragic where in most situations it got to the point that I just didn't care. The more I have to read pages about why it is so important that every little... blah blah blah.

Finally, to the point of this original article. Why are ICE's new books outselling you? Because they are fun! They provide background to cool history points, they create background to characters, they fill in some gaps. They give us personality, they give us tricks, mischief, some of the best elements of what MBOTF was.

In no way am I putting these new prequels written by ICE anywhere close to the DG, MT, or MoI, but at least they are fun. The concept of taking 500 out of 650 pages to describe the complex (not that complex) levels of sadness of the Tiste people...

The Tiste were always my favorite characters, now... meh. The Toblakai, though Karsa is fun at times, I have never really been intrigued by their story, it has seemed pretty one dimensional. With that said, I would much prefer to read about their current character profile, rather then getting deep into their inner psyche and why they have so much to be sad about too.

Wow... I don't post much, but I guess when I do its a biggy!

[glutton4Bolts]

While FoD and FoL were harder to get through than most of the other books... they still put almost all the other books I have read to shame. This is my 3rd time reading all the malazan books in order... and I continue to be entertained and discover new things. The chapters in FoD and FoL related to the Azathani are my favorite, followed by those surrounding the non-tiste people... so I guess the premise that the books suffer a bit due to the sour nature of the characters at its core is a valid one.... But IMO, if you read the MBoTF w/o reading these prequels then you are missing a ton. The origins/descriptions of the characters, places and subjects (magic, chaos, etc..) are important to understanding the core book series that follows and I was really looking forward to the official creation of shadow. All that being said, Karsa is a fantastic character and I look forward to the story that occurs after the fall of the malazan empire.

This post has been edited by glutton4Bolts: 12 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

[Malazano]

From Eriksons' facebook


Chapter 4
The Deck of Dragons gave forth a hollow echo. Among all adepts and practitioners, it was agreed that the House of Chains was empty. Suddenly vacant, though few took note of a final reverberation to announce the end, a burst of power from on high. Those ascendants among the tiers of the hierarchy within the house spared little effort in any struggle for dominance. Their broken, suffering god was gone, after all. And now the House stands empty.
Can anyone doubt that no mortal played a role in such godly affairs? The sheer presumption accompanying claims otherwise leave the wiser among us simply shaking our heads in disbelief.
The cast of a mortal is pitiful indeed. The choices made, the meagre struggles of this man's life, that woman's paltry aspirations, are of no consequence, of no significance. The gods in their realm, take no notice of mortal lives beyond the service expected in abject worship and helpless, hopeless, beseeching of boons sought, the faint longing of gifts, and blessing, of mercy given.
It was said a mortal woman guided and indeed granted the Crippled God freedom. It was said a handful of soldiers help open a gate to the heavens of another world. And it was said that not one among them worshiped the Crippled God, and that all who died at the feet of that god did so of their own volition, all in the name of something as unlikely and as weak as simple compassion, as if any sense of doing what was right was in itself powerful enough to change the world.
Only fools could believe such absurdity.
We mortals are all what we are and have ever been. Weak. Pathetic.
So discount the tales, my friends, the silly rumours. There will be no legends made of that lie, no myths born of such nonsense. Heed me in my proper scepticism and follow my reasonable light, and together we can put to rest such foolishness.


Refutation
(Rise of the Learned Skeptics)
Salbara Lanant

[End of Disc One]

I'm so glad that Erikson is back to writing epigraphs that I can actually understand

[Gorefest]

I already hate Salbara Lanant with a passion.

[Malazano]

According to the publisher's website, it will be published on July 2, 2019

Tor/Forge

07/02/2019

688 Pages

Witness

[Jussi]

First blurb for The God Is Not Willing (from Edelweiss catalog):

Quote

New York Times bestselling author Steven Erikson continues the beloved Malazan Book of the Fallen in a thrilling new sequel trilogy

Return to the Malazan Empire!

Picking up right after the events of 2011's The Crippled God, this new entry in a truly epic saga continues the story of the unmatched warrior, Karsa Orlong, as he returns to his people a world away. Karsa must travel the breadth of the world and will cross paths with many of the survivors of the final cataclysmic showdown.

https://www.edelweis...#sku=0765323591

This post has been edited by Jussi: 22 January 2019 - 10:09 PM

[Malazano]

It's official: the book will be published in November!!

From Erikson's Facebook

[Vengeance]

https://www.reddit.c...tm_source=share

[Vengeance]

It is not coming in November. Steve is still writing it.

[Stalker]

New essay on this trilogy on Steve’s website, found here. Basically, no Karsa in book one, possibly no Karsa in book two. The trilogy is “about Karsa’s legacy, and we need that legacy to be fully explored in order to bring the reader to Karsa”.

Interesting stuff. Definitely ballsy. Thoughts?

[worry]

I absolutely LOVE that idea.

[Aptorian]

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM

[Andorion]

I have been thinking that it might just be something like this ever since I heard that there would be a Karsa series. SE never conforms to expectations. He always does something different. There is no way he could have started writing using the same Karsa in the the original Book of the Fallen.

Thing is, lets think about Karsa's legacy. What does that mean?

1. The survivors of his excursion in northern Genebackis, both Teblor and human?
2. Those who witnessed him in Seven Cities, including the tribe he saved?
3. The Tiste Edur?
4. The slaves he freed in Genebackis?
5. Those who saw him in Darujhistan?
I think that the idea of some Teblor wishing to take revenge, some of the freed slaves, and relatives of someone whom he thoughtlessly killed somewhere are the most plausible possibilities.

[worry]

Priests/adherents of Fener maybe?

[champ]

Aptorian, on 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

This was similar to my initial thoughts but add a sigh in there too...

Andorion, on 18 March 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

I have been thinking that it might just be something like this ever since I heard that there would be a Karsa series. SE never conforms to expectations. He always does something different. There is no way he could have started writing using the same Karsa in the the original Book of the Fallen.

And with what Andorion states here... I trust SE but lately that trust has diminished and I really do think that the subversion he likes has started to hurt him.

Rather than a pre-order hardback book this is going to a wait and see what the initial feedback is now book...

[QuickTidal]

Aptorian, on 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

.

To be honest, for me personally, the reason that the Tiste books didn't land with me was not "removing mysticism and magic", but rather that they were Just. So. Dense. Like I'm obviously no stranger to dense novels, but when the minutiae of every single scene is bogged down in navel-gazing, pulling the rug out from existing characters or arcs or established "facts" in support of subverting expectations of the reader, and other things you might accuse a dense series of getting up to....I lost interest because the pacing was set at zero, and nothing was happening to really make that zero-pace worth my time.

On the flip side, what he's saying about getting to the point where you find out where Karsa is ten years post-TCG...by showing us what happened in the wake of him (the things we know about from TMBOTF) first, makes a LOT of sense and as long as he steers clear of the penchant for navel-gazing and pacing-zeroes...I'm happy to see where he takes us.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 March 2019 - 03:51 PM

[HoosierDaddy]

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

.

To be honest, for me personally, the reason that the Tiste books didn't land with me was not "removing mysticism and magic", but rather that they were Just. So. Dense. Like I'm obviously no stranger to dense novels, but when the minutiae of every single scene is bogged down in navel-gazing, pulling the rug out from existing characters or arcs or established "facts" in support of subverting expectations of the reader, and other things you might accuse a dense series of getting up to....I lost interest because the pacing was set at zero, and nothing was happening to really make that zero-pace worth my time.

On the flip side, what he's saying about getting to the point where you find out where Karsa is ten years post-TCG...by showing us what happened in the wake of him (the things we know about from TMBOTF) first, makes a LOT of sense and as long as he steers clear of the penchant for navel-gazing and pacing-zeroes...I'm happy to see where he takes us.

I'd concur with pace, but also add a lack of characterization beyond "the world sucks" everyone feels. It is just an episode of misery over and over each chapter.

[Andorion]

worry, on 18 March 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

Priests/adherents of Fener maybe?

Now that is a very interesting point.

What is the condition of the War pantheon? Fener is dead. The wolves are dead/withdrawn. Treach lost Gruntle.

Wait....as the slayer of Fener, does Karsa become the new War God? He is definitely an Ascendant, and if people start worshiping...

champ, on 18 March 2019 - 03:38 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

This was similar to my initial thoughts but add a sigh in there too...

Andorion, on 18 March 2019 - 01:50 AM, said:

I have been thinking that it might just be something like this ever since I heard that there would be a Karsa series. SE never conforms to expectations. He always does something different. There is no way he could have started writing using the same Karsa in the the original Book of the Fallen.

And with what Andorion states here... I trust SE but lately that trust has diminished and I really do think that the subversion he likes has started to hurt him.

Rather than a pre-order hardback book this is going to a wait and see what the initial feedback is now book...

I don't think its going to be as dark as the Tiste trilogy, but expect some discourse on civilisation would be my guess.

QuickTidal, on 18 March 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 17 March 2019 - 07:41 PM, said:

So he writes two books about the Tiste where he removes all the magic and mysticism surrounding the elder times.

It doesn't sell well.

Now he starts a trilogy based around the giant races and decided not to utilize a fan favorite, Karsa Orlong.

It's a bold strategy.

Let's see how it pans out...

.

To be honest, for me personally, the reason that the Tiste books didn't land with me was not "removing mysticism and magic", but rather that they were Just. So. Dense. Like I'm obviously no stranger to dense novels, but when the minutiae of every single scene is bogged down in navel-gazing, pulling the rug out from existing characters or arcs or established "facts" in support of subverting expectations of the reader, and other things you might accuse a dense series of getting up to....I lost interest because the pacing was set at zero, and nothing was happening to really make that zero-pace worth my time.

On the flip side, what he's saying about getting to the point where you find out where Karsa is ten years post-TCG...by showing us what happened in the wake of him (the things we know about from TMBOTF) first, makes a LOT of sense and as long as he steers clear of the penchant for navel-gazing and pacing-zeroes...I'm happy to see where he takes us.

Somewhat agree on the philosophizing, though I have to say that the K'rul chapters of Fall of Light are some of the best stuff SE has written.

[Gorefest]

To be honest, I'm actually way happier with the concept of following Karsa's impact on the the Malazan world post-tCG than having to follow Karsa himself around for three books in a sort of glorified Conan the Barbarian celebration of slaughter. I like the character, but not so much that a three-book series really appeals that greatly to me. The way Erikson describes his setup sounds way more appealing. So I'm in. There is a lot of scope for exploring return to tribalism. In the Malazan world we have the Teblor, the Tiste Edur, the Wickans, the Seti and many more tribal communities threatened in their existence but at the same time the relevant question whether such tribal societies still have any place in the 'new' world or whether they are over-romanticised concepts. At the same time, we see a return to tribalism in our own world, with borders being closed (USA, UK) and groups polarising in 'us versus them' camps (islamic terrorism, white terrorism, gun debates, East vs West, etc). The reverberations are intriguing to say the least and I hope Erikson can do it justice. "Rejoice!: a knife to the heart" was an interesting glimpse into what Erikson can do with such concepts.