[Eldat Pressen]

Now let's look at posts directed at Tennes;

Aranatha, on 23 October 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Maybe he isn't sure and is asking them?

Thyrllan, on 23 October 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

PS isn't sure about his own game mechanics?

Granted this next one is Kalse asking Dejim, but Tennes could respond

Aranatha, on 24 October 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

It appears Tennes has already said the most important things from my last posts

This Dejim train has picked up speed really easily, but I can see why and the lack of resistance wouldn't be surprising with 3 paired killers as opposed to usual killer+symp combo so I too prefer Dejim

Will hold off voting for now

Jalan, on 25 October 2017 - 02:14 AM, said:

That depends. Throwing him under the bus as distancing. The train will certainly be interesting to look at, as well as those who haven't voted. Tennes and Merrid made the train the likely lynch, I'll look them up when I get on a computer.

Remember Tennes quoting Jalan at the beginning over something trivial?

Tennes, on 25 October 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:

Morning, everyone. Looks like we're still waiting for Blend.

"Broken Empire" was ok. World-building was neat, but Jorg annoyed me as a character, and I saw the twist coming. "Red Queen's war" was better, imho.

No quote here, but just addressing the board.

Eldat Pressen, on 25 October 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

I do wonder if the lynch of Dejim, the lack of other options and the kill of Thyr was protection of Jalan or Tennes but based off the votes and the train I still want to vote Ay Estos.

Vote Ay Estos

Kalse, why did you think that Dejim's vote on Jalan was distancing?

Does anyone find value in scum not wanting to lynch Dejim? ie why Aranatha did what they did? If Osseric was not around then the lynch would have failed.

What are people's thoughts on the reasoning for Dejim's votes? ie those who voted for the signalling comments compared to those who voted for his not questioning the question mark.

Not ready to jump down my throat for this comment?

Tennes, on 25 October 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Busy today, so don't have too many thoughts. Didn't expect Dejim to be maccy, tbh

Only thing that jumps out of the brief glance on the train is Ay's concern over the possibly-failed-due-to-misspelling lynch. Not sure if it's genuine town concern or scum trying to make sure an inno lynch goes through, though.

Busy w/ stuff, will try to take a better look @ the train in the evening after footy. But no guarantees that'll happen.

[Aranatha]

Tennes, on 30 October 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'll be too busy today to defend the "case" against me anymore than I already did. So when you inevitably allow Aranatha (the one who didn't get voted off) and Kalse (the one who didn't vote) convince you that "voting late is WAAAY scummier then not voting at all!" please do think of a plan "B" for when you see my inno CF.

But you're not too busy to simplify our arguments, attack back those who attack you and tell us all how you're gonna CF inno, don't tell me that isn't scummy behaviour.

[Aranatha]

At this point (before reading Eldat's tome) I'd be happy to vote either for Jalan for the same reasons as yesterday plus being defended by Tennes or Tennes for being scummy and defending Jalan.

[Eldat Pressen]

This in the end was a stalled lynch, but it didn't have to be, it really didn't. Tennes is around and posting,

Tennes, on 26 October 2017 - 11:27 PM, said:

So it's 4 on Aranatha, and 2 on Jalan atm

To be honest, Aranatha was a bit in my blindspot yest, b/c the posts Merrid was giving them flack for were basically agreeing with me. And I naturally didn't question the logic behind my own vote.

I'd actually be more inclined to vote Jalan just to put the garden utensil defence theory to the test (and possibly stem the tide of jokes before it becomes memetic).

But doesn't look like that'll happen since I believe we have les than an hour till timeout.

Tennes, on 26 October 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

scratch thet, day times out past 10 PM, not past 8 PM. loads of time then.

I'm gonna work out, eat, and then come back to this.

Tennes, on 27 October 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

4 votes Aranatha (Merrid, Jalan, Osseric Nimander Golit)
3 votes Jalan (Skintick, Eldat Pressen, Aranatha)

Not voted: Ay Estos, Kalse, Tennes

If he adds to Aranatha here, or votes Jalan, then I think we get a lynch. Yet he waits and waits and votes with 30 minutes left of the day.

That is why he is now in amongst Jalan and Aranatha as a scum contender.

[Eldat Pressen]

Aranatha, on 30 October 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

At this point (before reading Eldat's tome) I'd be happy to vote either for Jalan for the same reasons as yesterday plus being defended by Tennes or Tennes for being scummy and defending Jalan.

I said I wouldn't do it either, and it takes ages going through each day. Trying to amplify the reason i'd vote a player instead of just dropping a vote.

After reading up, i'd vote Jalan, Aranatha or Tennes. Tennes due to what Kalse is saying/implying and Tennes's play, or Jalan and Aranatha because the vote seemed to swing and stop yestergameday.

[Aranatha]

Eldat Pressen, on 30 October 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 30 October 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

At this point (before reading Eldat's tome) I'd be happy to vote either for Jalan for the same reasons as yesterday plus being defended by Tennes or Tennes for being scummy and defending Jalan.

I said I wouldn't do it either, and it takes ages going through each day. Trying to amplify the reason i'd vote a player instead of just dropping a vote.

After reading up, i'd vote Jalan, Aranatha or Tennes. Tennes due to what Kalse is saying/implying and Tennes's play, or Jalan and Aranatha because the vote seemed to swing and stop yestergameday.

Us 3 are pretty much the only possible lynches today, that doesn't narrow it down much, does it? Who of us would you prefer? What do you think about Tennes + Jalan partnership? Some of the quotes of yours seem to support the hypothesis.

[Aranatha]

Kalse, on 30 October 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 30 October 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Merrid, on 30 October 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Aranatha, on 28 October 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Kalse, on 27 October 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

Osseric, on 26 October 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

Jalan, on 25 October 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 25 October 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

I do wonder if the lynch of Dejim, the lack of other options and the kill of Thyr was protection of Jalan or Tennes but based off the votes and the train I still want to vote Ay Estos. Vote Ay EstosKalse, why did you think that Dejim's vote on Jalan was distancing?Does anyone find value in scum not wanting to lynch Dejim? ie why Aranatha did what they did? If Osseric was not around then the lynch would have failed.What are people's thoughts on the reasoning for Dejim's votes? ie those who voted for the signalling comments compared to those who voted for his not questioning the question mark.

I'm not sure why I or anyone else would need protecting from a Mac OMGUS vote.I'm still not sure what your issue with Ay is.I think my reasoning was pretty good for D1. It looked like a slip, very early in game. Of course it was wrong but hindsight is all well and good. Also can you imaging going into endgame with that hanging over him? He further compounded the mistake with the signalling which on an "obvious setup" shouldn't have been there.Value to scum not wanting to lynch him is obviously because if he then went to endgame he'd be a pretty easy case to drive through.If you're positing that Aranatha messed up spelling because they're scum then why aren't you voting for them?I've had a shit days sleep and have started early on the coffee as a result, don't expect too much in the way of coherence from me till later in the Day.

found itVote Jalan

Osseric, on 26 October 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

AH the rock smells what your cooking. I just reread the vote count. my voting Janal right after you, to take him to L-2 helps you out, but to apperar that it doesn't, you cast doubt on my integrity. Okay I will play balremove votevote aranathaNow it's all even and we can leave it up to the night bears.

Ng, not all that clear. Firstly, Jalan hit l-2 first for about an hour. No nibbles, no one put him at l-1. So then Aranatha hits the same threshold. Again nothing. So this is what I am not sure of. If both Jalan and Aranatha are inno, why didn't scum jump on the chance to nix them. Conversely, if they are both scum, does the lack of lynch equal protection. It is odd behavior, and i am assuming that part of the reason no one put down the 5th vote was not wanting to come under suspicion, at least not before it was beneficial.

We had vote stalling on two people. That is very odd don't you think?

I mostly agree with your assesment of Tennes's end of D2 play and knowing I'm inno this is pretty much why I think that both Tennes and Jalan are scum. Tennes's play was scummy in itself. Saying you suspect x and then vote y is a shitty distancing from x, but I think he partly did it to justify waiting with his vote, which in turn he wanted to do because he didn't want to be seen as trying to drive a lynch. If he voted me straight of the bat and I was lynched, the next day everyone would look at the lynch and noticed there was influence that changed it from Jalan to me and he'd be among the driving force of it. This way he could also still vote for Jalan and take the distancing further than mere voicing of suspicions if the tide turned.
If Jalan was innocent, Tennes would have voted way earlier, because if he then was seen as driving force it wouldn't matter because the person he'd be allegedly defending wasn't scum.

I'm not sure I quite follow the reasoning here. You say if Jalan was inno, then Tennes would have voted for them much earlier. But you also say you are inno, and that's why Tennes waited so long before finally voting for you. So on the one hand, being inno means Tennes would jump straight away, but on the other, it explains why Tennes waited so long before voting? The two seem to contradict each other.

If Tennes voted straight away and if any one of us got lynched and cfed innovative, the next day people would look at the lynch and see that he drove the lynch from the other person and would suspect the other person because Tennes defended him. Now if Jalan was inno Tennes wouldn't have to care, but if he's scum he'd want to avoid this situation(or lynching his fellow scum).

Which kind of proves my point about his vote being calculating. He dropped it with plenty of forethought and iintention.

Yeah, I did say I mostly agree with your assessment

[Eldat Pressen]

Right now I think I am going to

Vote Jalan


He seems to be hiding to avoid suspicion, he started the game vocal enough and has dropped away.

[Skintick]

Back. My weekend ended up being busier than I thought. I'm catching up now.

[Jalan]

Also back. Got a few hours before work in which time to unpack, nap and get ready for work. Will have a quick blitz of thread.

I see EP has voted me for being quiet. Well EP, as you've read so much of thread you'll have found me saying I'd be away for a long weekend. That's why I've been quiet.

[Skintick]

So day had timed out without a lynch, but why the swing to Aranatha? I never got what was so shady about him, other than his DD post.

[Skintick]

Kalse, on 27 October 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Ok, I cannot to claim to have a strategy for last night. Yesterday was feeling super off and then had stuff in the evening. Plus, I did not get a feeling that things were going anywhere with the lynch, so in a way I was watching to see how it all played out.

I have been trying to develop a hypothesis for scum in this game, especially since the traditional town algorithms are out of reach. We don't have signalling or a symp and we don't have scum pressured by the fear of imminent threat to their lover conversation. Think about it. These two elements are how we usually build cases. Distancing and signalling. I was still hoping to use the former, but, yeah...


The point: we have one lynch of an inno. And 1 stalled/failed lynch. Obviously scum had no problem letting dn die. Day 2 is harder because it was relatively easy for them to stall a lynch (Just keep both trains equal in length and if something gets outta hand, oh well. Have 2 more scum).

Tennes is playing both sides of the lynch yesterday as pointed out. Leaning Jalan, voting Aranatha and then "helping" as the lynch counter toward the end. I bet he purposely chose to be L-1 on Aranatha, which would both explain the stalled lynch (we had one in our sights) and why he chose Aranatha despite spouting Jalan.

I quoted Tennes earlier because he is setting up for sowing confusion. Chose 2 other suspects then vote for a 3rd one, and one that turns out RI, so a safe vote.

vote tennes

I haven't agreed with your play so far this game, but this summary sounds like what I was thinking as I'm getting caught up.

[Skintick]

Eldat Pressen, on 27 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

I hope this is you throwing a scum member under the bus Kalse, because your town play so far has not been stellar.

I'd be willing to go with your vote though after that end of day performance from them yesterday.

Vote Tennes

I'm losing some confidence in you here Eldat. You were so sure that Jalan was scum, even implying that you knew something that the rest of us didn't. Which was why I felt pretty strong about following you on your vote in the previous day. This sudden change is taking away a lot of your credibility.

[Jalan]

So after a skim, my thoughts on the big issue are:

Yes so Tennes was around. I call not voting earlier sound play though - if there is no lynch then it doesn't take us to D-Day, narrows the numbers to our advantage and gives something to look at toDay. He's hanging around seeing who else will jump first. After all any scum not on a town train who check in would find the flimsiest of reasons to add the L-1 vote on a town train hours before timeout and save the ever suspicious hammer for town. The fact that Ay Estos and Kalse hadn't voted makes me strongly suspect that if Aranatha is scum then at least one of those two are. I'm also strongly tempted to vote for Ay as that'll shut this whole chainsaw defence of me kerfuffle up for good.

In fact, for the moment, I will

Vote Ay Estos

I'm going to be dipping in and out for a few hours and will be around occasionally all the way to timeout baring unforeseen circumstances.

[Aranatha]

Jalan, on 30 October 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

So after a skim, my thoughts on the big issue are:

Yes so Tennes was around. I call not voting earlier sound play though - if there is no lynch then it doesn't take us to D-Day, narrows the numbers to our advantage and gives something to look at toDay. He's hanging around seeing who else will jump first. After all any scum not on a town train who check in would find the flimsiest of reasons to add the L-1 vote on a town train hours before timeout and save the ever suspicious hammer for town. The fact that Ay Estos and Kalse hadn't voted makes me strongly suspect that if Aranatha is scum then at least one of those two are. I'm also strongly tempted to vote for Ay as that'll shut this whole chainsaw defence of me kerfuffle up for good.

In fact, for the moment, I will

Vote Ay Estos

I'm going to be dipping in and out for a few hours and will be around occasionally all the way to timeout baring unforeseen circumstances.

Advocating no-lynch now?

[Eldat Pressen]

Jalan, on 30 October 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Also back. Got a few hours before work in which time to unpack, nap and get ready for work. Will have a quick blitz of thread.

I see EP has voted me for being quiet. Well EP, as you've read so much of thread you'll have found me saying I'd be away for a long weekend. That's why I've been quiet.

I see my vote brought you back into the fold and 5 minutes later you have a diligent post with a vote no less. Handy? Convenient? Scum?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 15 hours and 5 minutes remaining

9 Players still alive: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eldat Pressen, Jalan, Kalse, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Skintick, Tennes

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Ay Estos ( Jalan )
1 Vote for Jalan ( Eldat Pressen )
1 Vote for Tennes ( Kalse )
1 Vote for Kalse ( Tennes )

Players not voted: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Skintick

[Jalan]

Aranatha, on 30 October 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

Jalan, on 30 October 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

So after a skim, my thoughts on the big issue are:

Yes so Tennes was around. I call not voting earlier sound play though - if there is no lynch then it doesn't take us to D-Day, narrows the numbers to our advantage and gives something to look at toDay. He's hanging around seeing who else will jump first. After all any scum not on a town train who check in would find the flimsiest of reasons to add the L-1 vote on a town train hours before timeout and save the ever suspicious hammer for town. The fact that Ay Estos and Kalse hadn't voted makes me strongly suspect that if Aranatha is scum then at least one of those two are. I'm also strongly tempted to vote for Ay as that'll shut this whole chainsaw defence of me kerfuffle up for good.

In fact, for the moment, I will

Vote Ay Estos

I'm going to be dipping in and out for a few hours and will be around occasionally all the way to timeout baring unforeseen circumstances.

Advocating no-lynch now?

Do you understand how numbers in Mafia work?

[Eldat Pressen]

Skintick, on 30 October 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Eldat Pressen, on 27 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

I hope this is you throwing a scum member under the bus Kalse, because your town play so far has not been stellar.

I'd be willing to go with your vote though after that end of day performance from them yesterday.

Vote Tennes

I'm losing some confidence in you here Eldat. You were so sure that Jalan was scum, even implying that you knew something that the rest of us didn't. Which was why I felt pretty strong about following you on your vote in the previous day. This sudden change is taking away a lot of your credibility.

I have my own theories, and you'll see I am voting for Jalan at the moment. I am convinced of at least one of Jalan or Aranatha is scum but just following along won't provoke enough reactions, I believe voting Tennes will yield more information as to who is willing to vote where.

[Eldat Pressen]

Jalan, on 30 October 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

So after a skim, my thoughts on the big issue are:

Yes so Tennes was around. I call not voting earlier sound play though - if there is no lynch then it doesn't take us to D-Day, narrows the numbers to our advantage and gives something to look at toDay. He's hanging around seeing who else will jump first. After all any scum not on a town train who check in would find the flimsiest of reasons to add the L-1 vote on a town train hours before timeout and save the ever suspicious hammer for town. The fact that Ay Estos and Kalse hadn't voted makes me strongly suspect that if Aranatha is scum then at least one of those two are. I'm also strongly tempted to vote for Ay as that'll shut this whole chainsaw defence of me kerfuffle up for good.

In fact, for the moment, I will

Vote Ay Estos

I'm going to be dipping in and out for a few hours and will be around occasionally all the way to timeout baring unforeseen circumstances.

I am less willing to vote for Ay Estos today after that shit show yesterday.