[SuperWho]

Hi guys,

I was told that each book of the Malazan Book of the Fallen could be read independently, and I was wondering if you could confirm that. I mean, can I like start with Midnight Tides, follow with Memories of Ice, read Toll the Hounds and then read the whole series in whatever order I chose. What I mean is, if you read one of the books, do you have a complete story that can stand by itself ? I do get that there is an overarching storyline but, you know what I mean.

Cheers !

[Aptorian]

Absolutely not. The first 5 books have a Very complex weave of storylines.

[SuperWho]

I read the 5 first books and I was under the impression that each book presented a story that could be enjoyable "as such" even though of course the overarching story is really incredible. I mean almost every book brings new settings, new characters... for exemple Midnight Tides seems fairly independent... once again, overarching story aside.

[Gorefest]

Each book (apart from the last two) has a self-contained main story arc, so in that sense they are 'complete' stories with a clear finale. However, a lot of the plot and character development and justification in each book relies heavily on knowledge obtained from previous books, so in practice it would make for a horribly clunky (if not impossible) read. Definitely not recommended. During a re-read you could probably pick up an individual book and read through it is a self-contained novel, but on a first read it would be total chaos.

[Coltaine -]

The first five books are really setting the fundament for the other five books, so I guess reading any of them without knowledge from the predecessors may confuse people a lot.

It is not impossible to start with any other of the first five ones aside from GotM, especially MT could be another solid starting point, but I guess in the later books you might just get crushed from a ton of names, places, warrens, races ...

[Silencer]

SuperWho, on 23 May 2017 - 03:03 PM, said:

I read the 5 first books and I was under the impression that each book presented a story that could be enjoyable "as such" even though of course the overarching story is really incredible. I mean almost every book brings new settings, new characters... for exemple Midnight Tides seems fairly independent... once again, overarching story aside.

I see what you mean. Sure, it's not like each book follows on directly from the last. The major plot of the individual books wraps up at the end without much of a cliffhanger.

This changes a bit later on, and especially the last two books are basically one story split into two books.

But overall I'd say that due to the way the events unfold, you're best of sticking with reading the books in order - they kinda sorta can function as stand alones but you'll be way more confused and not really understand a lot of events (more so than normal, I mean) without the context. Plus there is the overarching plot to consider.

Midnight Tides especially is one that stands out because it's set in a very different place and time, but there's a reason for that which will make more sense in later books. So it's the only one I'd really say is "stand-alone" in the true sense of the word. Everything else is more or less chronologically aligned and has major links to the other books.

So, sure, in theory you could jump around randomly through the books, but it's probably going to make for a weird experience with some major events being spoiled ahead of time. And the further in you go the more directly related the books (and their preceeding events in earlier books) become to each other.

[SuperWho]

I can think about some character developments and even explanations for some names, right, but vital things to understand one book in particular (apart from the last two) ? Maybe my memory is bad, but I thought that the overarching story was like an incredible and fantastic "bonus"

[SuperWho]

Thank you Silencer for these explanations

[Gorefest]

Nope, the overarching story is being built from book one (well, two really) onwards. Definitely not a bonus, each book is a vital step in the story ladder.

[End of Disc One]

If I were a tyrant, I'd make it illegal to read series out of order.

[Esa1996]

End of Disc One, on 23 May 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

If I were a tyrant, I'd make it illegal to read series out of order.

I would elect you as my tyrant then. Reading series out of order is akin to purposefully ruining the experience IMO. Granted, there are some series you can do this with, but Malazan, though it isn't as continuous as something like ASOIAF or Wheel of Time, is definitely not one of them.

This post has been edited by Esa1996: 23 May 2017 - 06:17 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I think we should do a sitewide re-read where we all read the books in reverse order.

[D'rek]

Honestly, I wouldn't even be that worried about mixed up events/magic explanations/etc - someone who knows they're reading the books out of order is going to be ready to let that stuff pass, right? I'm more worried about not understanding the characters.

Unlike, say, Dresden Files, which gives a few paragraphs of (re-)introduction to every recurring character in every book and frequently mentions the activities of characters in previous books, a lot of characters simply appear in Malazan novels without any explanation of what happened to them in previous novels. Understanding Ganoes' character arc in MoI will be very strange having not read GotM, etc, and if you can't empathize or at least understand the characters in Malazan I imagine it would become rather dull reading.

[NefaraisBredd]

I guess a person could read any series in non-sequential order but they would miss all of the artistry where the author weaves a tapestry of story arcs into one immensely daunting and beautiful overall narrative....do yourself a favor and read it in sequential order, as best as you can manage. I started with Gardens of the Moon and read only SE until Reapers Gale. Then I read ICE (KoK, RotCG) and back and forth as the Novels were released. When i say 'sequence' I mean flow of the story and not chronologically. In hindsight, i wish I would have waited for them all to be released and then read them in true 'sequence':


Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
Night of Knives
The Bonehunters
Return of the Crimson Guard
Reaper's Gale
Toll the Hounds
Stonewielder
Orb Sceptre Throne
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
Blood and Bone
Assail

[D'rek]

NefaraisBredd, on 26 May 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

I guess a person could read any series in non-sequential order but they would miss all of the artistry where the author weaves a tapestry of story arcs into one immensely daunting and beautiful overall narrative....do yourself a favor and read it in sequential order, as best as you can manage. I started with Gardens of the Moon and read only SE until Reapers Gale. Then I read ICE (KoK, RotCG) and back and forth as the Novels were released. When i say 'sequence' I mean flow of the story and not chronologically. In hindsight, i wish I would have waited for them all to be released and then read them in true 'sequence':


Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
Night of Knives
The Bonehunters
Return of the Crimson Guard
Reaper's Gale
Toll the Hounds
Stonewielder
Orb Sceptre Throne
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
Blood and Bone
Assail

Boooooo!

RotCG AFTER Reaper's Gale! Always!

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

NefaraisBredd, on 26 May 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

I guess a person could read any series in non-sequential order but they would miss all of the artistry where the author weaves a tapestry of story arcs into one immensely daunting and beautiful overall narrative....do yourself a favor and read it in sequential order, as best as you can manage. I started with Gardens of the Moon and read only SE until Reapers Gale. Then I read ICE (KoK, RotCG) and back and forth as the Novels were released. When i say 'sequence' I mean flow of the story and not chronologically. In hindsight, i wish I would have waited for them all to be released and then read them in true 'sequence':


Gardens of the Moon
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
Night of Knives
The Bonehunters
Return of the Crimson Guard
Reaper's Gale
Toll the Hounds
Stonewielder
Orb Sceptre Throne
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
Blood and Bone
Assail

The hard part is reading two ICE books in a row. Twice!

[Werthead]

With Malazan you can comfortably start with GotM, DG or MT. The only problem is that you then have to double-back and read other books and that can get confusing (you can't really read MoI before GotM, nor HoC before DG). Publication order is itself problematic - GotM is not the most accessible first volume - but for the sake of sanity it's probably the best way.

You could also, in theory, start with Night of Knives, Dancer's Lament or Forge of Darkness as well, but they each have their own problems. I'd be interested to see how it'd hang together to read the Paths of Ascendancy series, then Night of Knives and then Gardens of the Moon, although the switch up from Esslemont's most straightforward style to Erikson's might be a bit weird.

[Abyss]

I would argue that starting the series with MT would be less satisfying.
It is A beginning, notwithstanding being book 5, but it is not THE beginning, and there are massive chunks of context a reader might miss or misunderstand.

SE intended MT to be read after the reader had read GotM thru HoC. In a series this complex i think author intent it is pretty important.

DG... nah. Two major plotlines flow directly out of events in GotM. I can't say it's utterly essential to know where those characters have been to understand where they're going, but i'd argue it's helpful, important even.

I might make an exception for NoK, because of the way ICE wrote it as an intro, even tho the events and characters are fairly important.



...all of which is to say, i stand by published order as the way to go, with the usual notes of RCG before TtH (because depending on where you live that was published order) and DoD directly into TCG (because they are one book, and also anyone who can read the end of DoD, know that what happens next is sitting right in front of them, and not read it, is a stronger person than i).

[Werthead]

I agree for cohesiveness, publication order is the way to go, and for rereads people can mix it up a little. GotM is a problematic entry point for new readers, as I've found many times over the last fourteen years (it worked fine for me though).

[Kruppe of Darujhistan]

I started with MT on my first read, but that was simply due to the circumstances of discovering the series by chance at the Public Library. Much (additional) confusion ensued. I do believe in reading in published order, but I exclude Esslemont altogether. I just... can't.