[Jalan]

Now if it is all right with the rest of you I've got 3 rooms where I'm touching up paintwork, waiting on a timber delivery to finish the shed that I'll need to cut, finish and paint before attaching, got a trip down the tip to do as well as needing to do some food shopping. And it's sunny so I might just read in the garden too because I'm a horrible pasty white right now.

Don't you just love weeks off.

[Jalan]

And FML, got an amazon parcel due today by their own delivery people. Needs to be signed for by an adult, will not deliver to neighbours or leave in a safe place. Yesterday they were delivering in the village at 7pm. So much for going out today...

(I am going out to tow tomorrow morning too so could do the tip trip then too but I was being optimistic for today)

[Ampelas]

First read up on dead players done, now to go back and read alive players.

Osseric, on 05 April 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

I think PS made a mistake in the vote counts - Ampelas's vote was on Rashan as well, right?

I ask because I'm pretty suspicious of players that didn't vote on Day 1. That means Denul, Jalan and Merrid. They had plenty of time to vote, but did nothing. Day 1 votes create pressure, they give town options and they give the rest of us something to analyze. Being stingy with your Day 1 votes seems pretty scummy to me.

Merrid seems to have perked up a bit on Day 2. Perhaps you were keeping your head down on the first day and now feel a bit freer to make some noise?

Vote Merrid

Don't think I've forgotten about you Jalan, or you Denul.

As far as I can see, only day 2 post from Osseric that points at a person other than Merrid.

However looking through day one Nimander posts he does not mention Jalan, he does however mention Denul.

My thoughts on that is Denul could be scum linked to a more active player like Kilava.

Reading up again.

[Thyrllan]

Here now, going to have a look through. As I said yesterday, I felt good about either a Merrid or a Jalan vote at that time. In fact by the end, based on Merrid's responses, I was quite confident that Merrid would come up scum. So the scumdar's taken a bit of a blow on that one. Still, I think there's a fair bit to say about Jalan. I'm gonna take a look through.

[Thyrllan]

Ampelas, on 06 April 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

WCS today is d day. If symp is alive and we lynch wrong then it is 3 vs 3.

Denul won't be voted for.
Galain is on my town read.

Maybe I am guilty of over posting, but I am going to present a challenge.

Cast my vote goes on to you today unless you come up with a compelling case on who you think is scum. Day one you got away with hiding for the most part and same day two. You voted on both days but your day one vote had holes, in that you thought Barghast was town but voted Rashan off the back of him (Barghast) being scum. Day two quick drive by. It's not good enough.

Yeah, I won't be voting for Denul today. If they turn out to have been scum, then that's too bad. But by this point you have to put the silence down to RL issues, and the likelihood is they're getting modkilled anyway.

As for Galain, I agree with you, they're the one other player alongside myself I consider strongly to be town at the moment (watch that statement spectacularly blow up in my face).

I'm not sure about the Cast 'challenge' That's got a real blinkered feel to it, and apparently makes you the judge of what is a valuable contribution (though I do not disagree that Cast has been peripheral). But it is a nice way for you to ultimately lay down an easy vote with the excuse of, 'well, look, I tried to get him to play, he didn't, and I said I would do this.' But at the moment I still consider you lower down on the scum suspicion-o-meter. If scum, you've played a pretty ballsy game.

[Thyrllan]

Silchas Ruin, on 06 April 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 06 April 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

I'm sorry. But the fact that fucking DRAGONSEX is the starter on most of these cases is fucking ridiculous. Yes it can provide connections between symp and master, but for fucks sake you dumb fucks it's day one role play. It's supposed to be fucking stupid. Look how well this shit has panned out for town so far trying to use it.

God damn I suck at building cases, but I wouldn't start with fucking dragon sex bullshit antics.

I'm going where I let yesterday on actual posting style and gameplay yesterday. If I'm wrong at least it isn't from fucking dragonsex.

Vote Thyrllan

Also, Ampetatts make a case please.

Calm down. I'm not making a case TODAY based on dragonsex. I made a case day 1 on it when there really wasn't more information to go on. Yes, it's supposed to be stupid day one rp, but that's why one can safely signal with it. And we HAVE seen players do so in multiple games recently.

Noted. Problem being our MAFIA almost always consist on carry over cases from day to day.

Also, I'm calm. Just kind of frustrated. Partially my own problem as I couldn't be around to help early, partially at this game for so many low posters, and partially at Malazan Mafia which doesn't seem to be doing all that well. Scum win nearly all the time because we've lost the ability to make compelling cases.

I don't disagree with your statement. But, where's your compelling case then? I'll also note that technically you haven't been on either lynch train.

[Thyrllan]

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Some facts for consideration.

Day 1 lynch: Rashan - Barghast, Kilava, Cast, Ampelas, Osseric, Thyrllan, Nimander, Silchas (in for a "hammer" after a miscounted vote by PS)

Day 2 lynch: Merrid - Osseric, Galain, Ampelas, Jalan, Cast, Kilava

Note there are three remaining players that were on both innocent trains - myself, Kilava, Ampelas. I think we should narrow our vote today to one of the three of us. For me, since I know I'm not scum, that narrows it to Kilava or Ampelas.

Second thought- Why are you so jumpy Ampelas? Over the two days in game so far you've voted for 6 different players, with two (three for me since I know my innocence) revealing innocent. This looks to me like you're spreading wifom and that you don't actually cadre adhere your vote lands. I also find it interesting that you've placed your second vote each day on Kilava. Getting in some early distancing while it's safe to leave a vote there for awhile?

Amp's votes day 1 - Osseric, Kilava, Rasan.

Amp's votes day 2 - Silchas, Kilava, Cast, Merrid.

Interesting that you put yourself in a small group of people to look at. Runs the risk of people singling you out, perhaps not something scum would do. On the other hand, it's also interesting that you don't stop at saying that one of Kilava or Ampelas could be a killer, but rather posit that they could be partners (which seems unlikely to me). So basically saying that, whichever one of those two we choose, we'll hit a killer, leaving yourself the one townie in the group.

[Ampelas]

Players that were inactive start of day one, Galain, Cast and Silchas. All three ended the day with a vote, and an opinion. The most dubious of these being Cast with his Barghast is innocent, then Barghast is scum, vote his master.

Galain has pushed his opinions onto thread and stuck with it, Cast I think I always see as scummy even when they aren't so I admit there may be a cloud over this player but I am sticking in likely town after my rereads. Silchas also gets put into the town category for me, he has not tried to control the thread and has stuck with his opinions throughout the game. Finally, Thyrllan, he is the player that I think is town who could be scum. I have read all their posts and votes and discussions and believe they are also town.

It leaves me with Denul, Jalan and Kilava. I have said a lot about Kilava throughout the game, and I can see Osseric as the symp of Kilava and Denul. Osseric voted Denul early game, like a get your ass onto thread vote. Then mentions him on day two whilst voting for Merrid and plops Jalan in with them.

I wouldn't vote off a symp case though.

I won't vote for Denul and appeal to PS that they get modkilled at the end of day as a non entity.

Now like I said yesterday, Jalan went through all of day one without a serious thought, he basically joined in the banter, d/sex but no vote and no accusation followed.

Day two they focus on the night kill or more specifically Silchas' stance on the night kill.

Quote

A few people want Venge dead for old games. Silchas is saying that rather than vigging him for a game reason he was vigged because someone wanted revenge and that this was to the detriment of town (as Venge was the Healer and all.)

Now this only works if you know for sure that it was Venge who was vigged. Both CFs say "has been killed." There is no indication of which was scum and which was Vig. For Silchas to be sure that Venge was killed by the Vig then he must *know* which alt was killed by scum ergo he is a killer. I'm discounting him being the Vig because you'd have to be pretty special to Vig Venge and then say it was someone else getting even for a past game and a bad move.

he then drops his thoughts on Silchas but later picks it back up...

Jalan, on 06 April 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

So, after that skim, I'm not sold on SR anymore. I've generally avoided digging into the Kilava/Ampelas drivel but until it is late game I'm not going to try and figure out that shit. I'm going to switch vote to Merrid as I'm not liking their interactions much at the moment. I'll try and check in before timeout on my phone for any switching but don't count on it.

Remove Vote

Vote Merrid

Jalan, on 07 April 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 06 April 2017 - 10:22 PM, said:

Vote Kilava

I removed to let you hang yourself. You are desperately posting to end game to strangle the thread.

Well played. Don't know your partner yet, but we'll get it

I still think it is you. I'll have to check back and see if Kilava was one supporting your slip as scum or as not as that'll be telling.

So my main suspect today is Jalan.

I have done around four rereads this morning. So I know a lot of the above is vague re Galain, Silchas and Thyr but I don't want to focus on why I think they are town, more on why I think someone is scum. Cast is on the fence and is sitting behind Kilava, Jalan and Denul.

[Thyrllan]

Silchas Ruin, on 06 April 2017 - 05:04 PM, said:

Kilava and Cast from vote spreads are at least scum and symp mix.

Remove Vote

Vote Kilava

Can you elaborate on this?

[Ampelas]

I think it is hard to look at two trains and take the analysis as good reading because there are only two trains, ideally we'd have three and a nice pattern to look at.

[Thyrllan]

Galain, on 06 April 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Jalans most notable moment is the SR case.

removed nested quotes

Jalan, on 05 April 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

A few people want Venge dead for old games. Silchas is saying that rather than vigging him for a game reason he was vigged because someone wanted revenge and that this was to the detriment of town (as Venge was the Healer and all.)

Now this only works if you know for sure that it was Venge who was vigged. Both CFs say "has been killed." There is no indication of which was scum and which was Vig. For Silchas to be sure that Venge was killed by the Vig then he must *know* which alt was killed by scum ergo he is a killer. I'm discounting him being the Vig because you'd have to be pretty special to Vig Venge and then say it was someone else getting even for a past game and a bad move.

its just such an immediate stretch of logic, twist of words and intention of a post by Jalan here it just feels like someone trying to get a handy wagon started.

the rapid back down after it was obviously gaining no traction is telling as well. his unvote post was #281, in which he also votes for Merrid

says he might be back in time for EoD for a switch but unlikely.
also wants to avoid digging through the kilava/amp "drivel"
then is depressed about having to do it today after merrid flips town.

All this, yes. I'll make a longer statement in a bit. But essentially, these are the kinds of things which are setting off alarm bells for me about Jalan.

[Thyrllan]

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 08:31 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 06 April 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

I'm also willing to lay a vote now because I really do believe they are either paired killers or killer/symp. I prefer an Amp vote, but I don't think it will gain the needed votes. I will back a Kilava vote.

Vote Kilava

Remove Vote

I'm an idiot. Who would agree with me?

Who said you're an idiot? You have said you're only willing to place a vote on Kilava today. She is one of two players that I have made damn clear that I believe to be scum. I'm willing to place my vote there as we need all 4 remaining town to agree on a lynch as I believe there is a real chance that Amp is the symp.

Hell, watch how fast Amp and whomever their third is pile on after one of you vote me.

This is an intriguing reaction to Silchas' vote removal. It almost reads a little panicky, like you were really hoping there would be a quick pile on on to Kilava and now Silchas has stalled that.

[Jalan]

Thyrllan, on 07 April 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Galain, on 06 April 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Jalans most notable moment is the SR case.

removed nested quotes

Jalan, on 05 April 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

A few people want Venge dead for old games. Silchas is saying that rather than vigging him for a game reason he was vigged because someone wanted revenge and that this was to the detriment of town (as Venge was the Healer and all.)

Now this only works if you know for sure that it was Venge who was vigged. Both CFs say "has been killed." There is no indication of which was scum and which was Vig. For Silchas to be sure that Venge was killed by the Vig then he must *know* which alt was killed by scum ergo he is a killer. I'm discounting him being the Vig because you'd have to be pretty special to Vig Venge and then say it was someone else getting even for a past game and a bad move.

its just such an immediate stretch of logic, twist of words and intention of a post by Jalan here it just feels like someone trying to get a handy wagon started.

the rapid back down after it was obviously gaining no traction is telling as well. his unvote post was #281, in which he also votes for Merrid

says he might be back in time for EoD for a switch but unlikely.
also wants to avoid digging through the kilava/amp "drivel"
then is depressed about having to do it today after merrid flips town.

All this, yes. I'll make a longer statement in a bit. But essentially, these are the kinds of things which are setting off alarm bells for me about Jalan.

You've been keep mentioning me for a few days now. Put up or shut up.

Underlined: well yes, I was rather hoping one of the three of us would be dead. One of them makes a read through much easier with a CF. Me means I don't need to bother at all.

[Thyrllan]

Ampelas, on 07 April 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Cast I think I always see as scummy even when they aren't so I admit there may be a cloud over this player but I am sticking in likely town after my rereads.

Can you expand on what in your reread made you think this? Because currently I am thinking Jalan and Cast as partners.

[Thyrllan]

Jalan, on 07 April 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on 07 April 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Galain, on 06 April 2017 - 08:26 PM, said:

Jalans most notable moment is the SR case.

removed nested quotes

Jalan, on 05 April 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

A few people want Venge dead for old games. Silchas is saying that rather than vigging him for a game reason he was vigged because someone wanted revenge and that this was to the detriment of town (as Venge was the Healer and all.)

Now this only works if you know for sure that it was Venge who was vigged. Both CFs say "has been killed." There is no indication of which was scum and which was Vig. For Silchas to be sure that Venge was killed by the Vig then he must *know* which alt was killed by scum ergo he is a killer. I'm discounting him being the Vig because you'd have to be pretty special to Vig Venge and then say it was someone else getting even for a past game and a bad move.

its just such an immediate stretch of logic, twist of words and intention of a post by Jalan here it just feels like someone trying to get a handy wagon started.

the rapid back down after it was obviously gaining no traction is telling as well. his unvote post was #281, in which he also votes for Merrid

says he might be back in time for EoD for a switch but unlikely.
also wants to avoid digging through the kilava/amp "drivel"
then is depressed about having to do it today after merrid flips town.

All this, yes. I'll make a longer statement in a bit. But essentially, these are the kinds of things which are setting off alarm bells for me about Jalan.

You've been keep mentioning me for a few days now. Put up or shut up.

Underlined: well yes, I was rather hoping one of the three of us would be dead. One of them makes a read through much easier with a CF. Me means I don't need to bother at all.

Oh I'll be putting up (a case). Don't worry about that.

[Ampelas]

Thyrllan, on 07 April 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 07 April 2017 - 11:04 AM, said:

Cast I think I always see as scummy even when they aren't so I admit there may be a cloud over this player but I am sticking in likely town after my rereads.

Can you expand on what in your reread made you think this? Because currently I am thinking Jalan and Cast as partners.

I will do. On my pad I have them circled with Kilava, Jalan, and Denul but something made me think differently.

Hmm, well here; I am talking about the end of day one when votes were spread, 7 hours left.

Ampelas, on 07 April 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

Kilava is the one to get the party started, then Galain hops onto Barghast then Nim.

2 vs 2.

Cast enters the thread here, pretty much a non entity and puts Rashan on 3. What is suspicious about this, is that at first he is saying Bargy is innocent, then he uses him as potential scum to lay his vote on Rashan.

Kilava gets voted for by osseric, and I end up on Rashan.

Cast says he will grab quotes but does not do so.

Rashan is lynched.

Thyr is on the train, and Jalan is off the train. Silchas tries to get on the train.

This is the only quoted text I have in my PM's, it looks like I am leaning towards Cast being scum.

Hang on, I'll do a quick reread of day two because I think it must be in there.

[Ampelas]

Okay I think it was this that pushed me towards putting them into a town possible.

They explain their absence but promise they'll be back before the end of day, which they were.

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

Kilava, on 06 April 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

Osseric is making the most sense atm. Merrid appears to be trying.

Denul and Galain are non-entities, and Cast... I need to re-read, because I'm blanking on stuff wot he actually said.

I need to figure out if I think Ampeals is using scummy logic because he's scum, or because he's being an idiot. But that'll wait until tomorrow, because I don't want to go to bed with a headache.

Yeah, anything you look for on me is going to be day 1. I've been non-existent today. Life has seriously gotten under my skin and I've been away from the internet all day.

I'm only posting something now to avoid the modkill and taking a moment to see if there is anything that looks likely enough to secure a vote to go into day 3 to help support. I should be more useful going forward after I get some sleep.

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

If I'm mathing correctly, EOD should happen around 740am for me. I have to be up about an hour and a half before that. I'll check back in the morning and see where things are standing.

Cast, on 06 April 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

I'll add my vote to the majority. It's weak, but I don't want a no-lynch.

vote merrid

Although I didn't think that at the time.

Ampelas, on 06 April 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Cast's drive-by was woefully suspicious, trying to get on the train, for what reasons, baffle me.

[Ampelas]

I'd lean towards Jalan being my primary though.

[Kilava]

Those are my 2 favourites at the moment, with Cast edging out Jalan.

Thyr is longshot, purely because they've played a very careful game, so I'm not sure there's anything I can point to and say "this deffo makes me think they are town" .

[Ampelas]

I have around 4 hours left to play, then after that I may pop into vote if there is no freeze but that's it.