[Malankazooie]

Is there an equivalent of Maury Povich in King's Landing? Because 1) I'm not convinced Cersei is pregnant and 2) If she is, I'm not convinced it's Jaime's baby.

[Nevyn]

Malankazooie, on 14 August 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

Is there an equivalent of Maury Povich in King's Landing? Because 1) I'm not convinced Cersei is pregnant and 2) If she is, I'm not convinced it's Jaime's baby.

Well, that would be occasion for a good strangling.

[paran falcon]

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

paran falcon, on 14 August 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Am I the only one to have the thought that Jon's "mission" could be accomplished SO much faster (time is of the essence, is it not??) with a dragon ride and snatch of an undead creature to prove their existence to the rest of the world?

^^This. I expect this is because it would skip things along too fast for HBO's liking....but yeah. "Don't believe me? Let's hop on Drogon and head north." Dany sees undead army on the march. Changes mind.

Like fuck. It's such a simple plot point that it bothers me that it didn't happen already.

I can see how they could think it would move things too quickly but in trade they could have some serious development of Jon and Dany's relationship. They are clearly implying SOMETHING is going on there already.

[QuickTidal]

paran falcon, on 14 August 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

paran falcon, on 14 August 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Am I the only one to have the thought that Jon's "mission" could be accomplished SO much faster (time is of the essence, is it not??) with a dragon ride and snatch of an undead creature to prove their existence to the rest of the world?

^^This. I expect this is because it would skip things along too fast for HBO's liking....but yeah. "Don't believe me? Let's hop on Drogon and head north." Dany sees undead army on the march. Changes mind.

Like fuck. It's such a simple plot point that it bothers me that it didn't happen already.

I can see how they could think it would move things too quickly but in trade they could have some serious development of Jon and Dany's relationship. They are clearly implying SOMETHING is going on there already.

Indeed. I agree.

[Terez]

re: prego Cersei, I have to wonder if it's her way of manipulating Jaime. She's a bit old for it, no? And of course, the prophecy said she would have three children, not that she's likely to survive long enough to give birth. I really wish they hadn't cut the valonqar prophecy from the show, but if they're aiming for GRRM's ending, they have to fulfill it, right?

[QuickTidal]

I really don't see the point of Randyll Tarly. Not especially with his death having now occurred so unceremoniously. I mean what a waste of a character to have introduced. I always assumed that Tarly would get more of a chance to do something than join the fight on the Lannister side, get iced in his first proper battle for that side.

Like fuck. What on earth was the point?


Dickon works as a juxtaposition to Sam...so I'm fine with that....but the dad really served no purpose.

[polishgenius]

Terez, on 14 August 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

re: prego Cersei, I have to wonder if it's her way of manipulating Jaime. She's a bit old for it, no? And of course, the prophecy said she would have three children, not that she's likely to survive long enough to give birth. I really wish they hadn't cut the valonqar prophecy from the show, but if they're aiming for GRRM's ending, they have to fulfill it, right?

It was my initial thought that she's not preggers, but thinking about it: it's her pregnancy that causes her to soften her stance and look for less violent ways to deal with Dany. It'll be the loss of her baby that finally drives her completely over the edge, breaks apart her and Jaime, maybe causing her to wildfire King's Landing or something.

I'm pretty sure they've explicitly said they aren't aiming directly for GRRM's ending, though. Like, certain things are obviously going to have to be the same but they're not just not followng the specific plan but deliberately avoiding it so that book readers will still find surprises.




Anyway, nice set-up episode, but I'm starting to wish the Night King would hurry up. Everyone else can teleport all over the world but he's taken nearly two seasons to get the relatively short distance from Hardhome to the Wall. Waddupwidat? I'm starting to wish for a Malazan crossover in which a bunch of T'lan Imass materialise, assume that the enroaching cold is the work of a Jaghut Tyrant, and head north to kick some arse, just to hurry it up a little.


I think my favourite thing about the episode overall is the way basically every conversation had some deep history behind it. Finally starting to actually use the show's own history to their advantage, one thing this season had been a tiny bit lacking until now.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 14 August 2017 - 05:45 PM

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

I really don't see the point of Randyll Tarly. Not especially with his death having now occurred so unceremoniously. I mean what a waste of a character to have introduced. I always assumed that Tarly would get more of a chance to do something than join the fight on the Lannister side, get iced in his first proper battle for that side.

Like fuck. What on earth was the point?


Dickon works as a juxtaposition to Sam...so I'm fine with that....but the dad really served no purpose.

They needed someone among the Tyrell bannerman to give the Lannisters the momentum swing the story needed.

And they love now and then killing off somewhat recent characters you thought they were building up, whether you liked them or not. Keeps the audience from building up an expectation of obvious importance.

And they may or may not need a further plot thread where Samwell resumes the Tarly family name, either for him or his *official* child. In which case his family had to die sometime.


But him not agreeing to take the black was beyond dumb. Yeah, she can't order you to. But you can still agree to do it. I guess the point of that was she needed to execute some enemy lords by dragonfire to get Tyrion and Varys all worried.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 14 August 2017 - 06:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 14 August 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

I really don't see the point of Randyll Tarly. Not especially with his death having now occurred so unceremoniously. I mean what a waste of a character to have introduced. I always assumed that Tarly would get more of a chance to do something than join the fight on the Lannister side, get iced in his first proper battle for that side.

Like fuck. What on earth was the point?


Dickon works as a juxtaposition to Sam...so I'm fine with that....but the dad really served no purpose.

They needed someone among the Tyrell bannerman to give the Lannisters the momentum swing the story needed.

And they love now and then killing off somewhat recent characters you thought they were building up, whether you liked them or not. Keeps the audience from building up an expectation of obvious importance.

And they may or may not need a further plot thread where Samwell resumes the Tarly family name, either for him or his *official* child. In which case his family had to die sometime.


But him not agreeing to take the black was beyond dumb. Yeah, she can't order you to. But you can still agree to do it. I guess the point of that was she needed to execute some enemy lords by dragonfire to get Tyrion and Varys all worried.

I guess. It just felt so strangely cut off as a plot progression to me.

[Terez]

polishgenius, on 14 August 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Terez, on 14 August 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

re: prego Cersei, I have to wonder if it's her way of manipulating Jaime. She's a bit old for it, no? And of course, the prophecy said she would have three children, not that she's likely to survive long enough to give birth. I really wish they hadn't cut the valonqar prophecy from the show, but if they're aiming for GRRM's ending, they have to fulfill it, right?

It was my initial thought that she's not preggers, but thinking about it: it's her pregnancy that causes her to soften her stance and look for less violent ways to deal with Dany.

I'm not entirely sure that's what she's doing, though. We are talking about Cersei here. She lost it a long time ago, and she always, always has an evil plan. If they're actually going to make her "soften her stance", I have to admit, I'll be disappointed. It would be a bizarre turn for her character at this point in the story.

polishgenius, on 14 August 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure they've explicitly said they aren't aiming directly for GRRM's ending, though. Like, certain things are obviously going to have to be the same but they're not just not followng the specific plan but deliberately avoiding it so that book readers will still find surprises.

I can't claim to be all that familiar with what they've said about it but I'm pretty sure they've said they're aiming for his ending in the broad strokes that he gave them. The differences will be in places where they had to fill in the details. Certain things like the burning of Shireen and the origin of Hodor are from GRRM; it seems like the valonqar prophecy (or, its fulfillment) would be among the important sorts of plot points that they're going to keep.

[Nevyn]

Cersei is not softening her stance.

She still wants to kill all her enemies. She is just recognizing that she may need to buy time and/or win by betrayal rather than outright force.

[polishgenius]

Terez, on 14 August 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm not entirely sure that's what she's doing, though. We are talking about Cersei here. She lost it a long time ago, and she always, always has an evil plan. If they're actually going to make her "soften her stance", I have to admit, I'll be disappointed. It would be a bizarre turn for her character at this point in the story.

She's always been a fruitloop, but her children were always the one thing keeping her even vaguely grounded. I don't think it's a coincidence that just after she revealed it, she goes from an attitude of 'burn the world motherfuckers' to 'let's try and play a cleverer game'.

[Terez]

Binder of Demons, on 14 August 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

Tonight was the third time a character has used the phrase, "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come". No idea if there is any significance but it just seems oddly specific a phrase. I already had it in my head before tonight, so now I'm convinced they're trying to draw attention to something.

I'm rewatching "Oathbreaker" (0603) right now. Ser Arthur Dayne says this to Ned right before they fight at the Tower of Joy.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Nevyn, on 14 August 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

Cersei is not softening her stance.

She still wants to kill all her enemies. She is just recognizing that she may need to buy time and/or win by betrayal rather than outright force.

Agreed. She'll meet with Dany, feign "OMG, it's all true", promise her aid and then refuse to follow through in the hope that Jon and Dany waste themselves on fighting the army of the dead, and that everyone comes out damaged enough that she gets to maintain her hold on the throne.

That's not softening, that's "fighting them like Father would have done".

[polishgenius]

To clarify: I don't think Cersei is playing nice. But her stated aim earlier in the episode was, basically, die fighting, cause as much damage as possible. She explicitly rejected Jaime's suggestions to talk. Now, she's talking.

Softening her stance may have been the wrong phrase. But she's thinking differently to what she was.

[Dadding]

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

paran falcon, on 14 August 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Am I the only one to have the thought that Jon's "mission" could be accomplished SO much faster (time is of the essence, is it not??) with a dragon ride and snatch of an undead creature to prove their existence to the rest of the world?

^^This. I expect this is because it would skip things along too fast for HBO's liking....but yeah. "Don't believe me? Let's hop on Drogon and head north." Dany sees undead army on the march. Changes mind.

Like fuck. It's such a simple plot point that it bothers me that it didn't happen already.

Jon said something like "trust a stranger" this episode to let him leave. And she just barely agrees to that. She's not going to risk the one thing most dear to her in the world, her dragons, on someone who is essentially still a stranger, schoolgirl crush or not. Jon's spent the last few episode trying to convince her to help, I think it would have been cheap and dirty if she'd suddenly acquiesced and been all: "yeah, let's take my babies to check on something I still don't 100% believe, in a land I'm not familiar with, with a strange man I still don't trust yet".

Really loved the last episode, as others pointed out, the pacing feels a bit weird with the jumping across continents in a few minutes, but it's what the show needs to wrap things up neatly.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Dadding, on 14 August 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

paran falcon, on 14 August 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Am I the only one to have the thought that Jon's "mission" could be accomplished SO much faster (time is of the essence, is it not??) with a dragon ride and snatch of an undead creature to prove their existence to the rest of the world?

^^This. I expect this is because it would skip things along too fast for HBO's liking....but yeah. "Don't believe me? Let's hop on Drogon and head north." Dany sees undead army on the march. Changes mind.

Like fuck. It's such a simple plot point that it bothers me that it didn't happen already.

Jon said something like "trust a stranger" this episode to let him leave. And she just barely agrees to that. She's not going to risk the one thing most dear to her in the world, her dragons, on someone who is essentially still a stranger, schoolgirl crush or not. Jon's spent the last few episode trying to convince her to help, I think it would have been cheap and dirty if she'd suddenly acquiesced and been all: "yeah, let's take my babies to check on something I still don't 100% believe, in a land I'm not familiar with, with a strange man I still don't trust yet".

Really loved the last episode, as others pointed out, the pacing feels a bit weird with the jumping across continents in a few minutes, but it's what the show needs to wrap things up neatly.

Not to mention the huge risk it would be to take one of your 3 greatest assets and risk them on an unnecessary expedition without any scouting, backup, or preparation. It's not like there are just wild wights wandering white wildernesses without. Wights walk with Whitey's warhost.

[worry]

Here's the thing though. They coulda just taken a prisoner condemned to death north of the wall, killed him themselves inside a cage, and brought him back once he was zombie. No need to go hunting for dead army members at all.

[Cause]

Not everything that dies nirth of the wall becomes a zombie does it? Has to be some white walker infkuence

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

worry, on 14 August 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

Here's the thing though. They coulda just taken a prisoner condemned to death north of the wall, killed him themselves inside a cage, and brought him back once he was zombie. No need to go hunting for dead army members at all.

I was telling people they might as well kill Tyrion. What's an undead dwarf gonna do to ya?