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Mafia 141 - Murder in the Morgue Hospitals aren't safe places!

#701 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 01:57 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

So this has been your plan all along.

Well let's take one step back, you have said Mockra has followed me all game long. In fact your theory also includes that Mockra was the killer.

Only the symp or the evil coroner knew of the killer but you are saying that Mockra was neither of those two.

But going off your list;

I have explained why I did not counter reveal straight away, and also pushed for the lynch.

I was and still am confused of Fanderay's CF, of course I am going to speculate as to why because it is baffling. I thought killer with manipulated CF today but you quashed that with the killer wouldn't suicide and I accepted that, so I am back to thinking he was symp.

All those things are excused and wifom, the only facts was about my self votes yesterday but its hard when your banging your head against the wall.

That list, that post looks like you've been preparing for it, and is one reason I think I am still alive, to be your patsy today.

Now who's WIFOMing? :(

Of course, I've been thinking of it. You'll note my first this morning said as much.

If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to get you lynched for 3 fucking days in a row now :(


You yourself accepted yesterday that by Occam's razor you were the logical choice.

And note, I'm not saying that scenario is the correct one- I'm a clueless fucking RI, so I don't know. My point was, it would be less elaborate then what you are asking me to believe.

Your play is inconsistent. I have an unresolved question of whether you've been lying to us. You've done nothing to make me think you're lying less.

I am voting you, because I don't believe you. It's as simple as I can make it.

#702 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 01:59 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

vote Serc

I accept I may be wrong. But I do not see another logical choice. I am not following my gut on Gamelon, and fuck Okaros if it's him having a laugh at our flailing against each other.
Serc's plan's made it impossible for me to believe him. So let's see if logic beats gut.


Yes, so be logical and stop letting your heart get in the way. On numerous occasions you have said I have played shit but never scummy. You don't think I am scum because you are.


I AM being logical. Your statements do not compute. I cannot ignore that and vote for Game on the basis of some "scum tells" , when I have a fucking walking inconsistency staring me in the face.

#703 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:03 PM

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

vote Serc

I accept I may be wrong. But I do not see another logical choice. I am not following my gut on Gamelon, and fuck Okaros if it's him having a laugh at our flailing against each other.
Serc's plan's made it impossible for me to believe him. So let's see if logic beats gut.


Yes, so be logical and stop letting your heart get in the way. On numerous occasions you have said I have played shit but never scummy. You don't think I am scum because you are.


I AM being logical. Your statements do not compute. I cannot ignore that and vote for Game on the basis of some "scum tells" , when I have a fucking walking inconsistency staring me in the face.


and all town have to be consistent?

So turn the table.

You are healer. Someone else claims healer, and you made a choice to see them lynched instead of counter revealing.

That person CF's innocent. What do you do?

Do you KNOW why that happened? No.

So at first I am thinking symp, then I think he could have been killer, now I am back to symp. Where would you be? I still don't know, and won't until after the game. I find it hard to stay consistent when I don't know.

#704 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:05 PM

Now with me thinking he is symp, then I am looking at who he was symping.

Possibilities are Gamelon because he threw some suspicion that way but more at Mockra, so when Mockra CF's innocent, Gam may too.

Or you, who he only ever labelled as a symp. When do we ever lynch suspected symps?

There is the possibility that he steered clear of Okaros completely but I am not going down that rabbit hole. I have a good town vibe from Okaros.

#705 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:07 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

vote Serc

I accept I may be wrong. But I do not see another logical choice. I am not following my gut on Gamelon, and fuck Okaros if it's him having a laugh at our flailing against each other.
Serc's plan's made it impossible for me to believe him. So let's see if logic beats gut.


Yes, so be logical and stop letting your heart get in the way. On numerous occasions you have said I have played shit but never scummy. You don't think I am scum because you are.


I AM being logical. Your statements do not compute. I cannot ignore that and vote for Game on the basis of some "scum tells" , when I have a fucking walking inconsistency staring me in the face.


and all town have to be consistent?

So turn the table.

You are healer. Someone else claims healer, and you made a choice to see them lynched instead of counter revealing.

That person CF's innocent. What do you do?

Do you KNOW why that happened? No.

So at first I am thinking symp, then I think he could have been killer, now I am back to symp. Where would you be? I still don't know, and won't until after the game. I find it hard to stay consistent when I don't know.

Yes, guess what, it's my premise for finding scum. I look for inconsistencies that suggest you know more than town should.

I already told you where I'd be: I'd counter reveal if I thought they were a killer (as you claimed you did).

I certainly would not wait until fucking D-day to reveal when I'd know I'd have all kind of accusations flung my way for it.

#706 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:10 PM

It is Day 5. 31 hours and 5 minutes remaining
4 Players still alive: Alkend, Gamelon, Okaros, Serc

3 votes to lynch, 2 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Serc ( Alkend )
1 Vote for Alkend ( Serc )

Players not voted: Gamelon, Okaros
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
0

#707 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

vote Serc

I accept I may be wrong. But I do not see another logical choice. I am not following my gut on Gamelon, and fuck Okaros if it's him having a laugh at our flailing against each other.
Serc's plan's made it impossible for me to believe him. So let's see if logic beats gut.


Yes, so be logical and stop letting your heart get in the way. On numerous occasions you have said I have played shit but never scummy. You don't think I am scum because you are.


I AM being logical. Your statements do not compute. I cannot ignore that and vote for Game on the basis of some "scum tells" , when I have a fucking walking inconsistency staring me in the face.


and all town have to be consistent?

So turn the table.

You are healer. Someone else claims healer, and you made a choice to see them lynched instead of counter revealing.

That person CF's innocent. What do you do?

Do you KNOW why that happened? No.

So at first I am thinking symp, then I think he could have been killer, now I am back to symp. Where would you be? I still don't know, and won't until after the game. I find it hard to stay consistent when I don't know.

Yes, guess what, it's my premise for finding scum. I look for inconsistencies that suggest you know more than town should.

I already told you where I'd be: I'd counter reveal if I thought they were a killer (as you claimed you did).

I certainly would not wait until fucking D-day to reveal when I'd know I'd have all kind of accusations flung my way for it.


No that was not my scenario, I am asking youto put yourself in my shoes and you haven't. You have made up your own scenario.

#708 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM

So the thing that's got me a bit surprised is that I never actually expected that an Alkend train would gather ANY steam. And the moment I mentioned that I was most suspicious about Alkend you all jumped on it.... I legitimately thought you guys were just going to speed lynch me and lose the game.

So where are the votes right now? 1 on Serc, 2 on Alkend? If I were to vote Serc, I'd need Okaros to follow.

Okaros - what do you think? I think it's suspicious that Serc has changed his tune so quickly today. I'm still weary of Alkend. I'm gonna reread all the stuff you three have posted since I went to bed last night, hopefully get a bit more insight.

#709 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM

Oh, I see Okaros hasn't actually voted yet, but I believe he has stated his intent to vote for Alkend, yeah?

#710 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:13 PM

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

So the thing that's got me a bit surprised is that I never actually expected that an Alkend train would gather ANY steam. And the moment I mentioned that I was most suspicious about Alkend you all jumped on it.... I legitimately thought you guys were just going to speed lynch me and lose the game.

So where are the votes right now? 1 on Serc, 2 on Alkend? If I were to vote Serc, I'd need Okaros to follow.

Okaros - what do you think? I think it's suspicious that Serc has changed his tune so quickly today. I'm still weary of Alkend. I'm gonna reread all the stuff you three have posted since I went to bed last night, hopefully get a bit more insight.


Well I admit that your suspicion had me look at the thread with a new light and I think I found something. I still don't fully trust you.

#711 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:19 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

vote Serc

I accept I may be wrong. But I do not see another logical choice. I am not following my gut on Gamelon, and fuck Okaros if it's him having a laugh at our flailing against each other.
Serc's plan's made it impossible for me to believe him. So let's see if logic beats gut.


Yes, so be logical and stop letting your heart get in the way. On numerous occasions you have said I have played shit but never scummy. You don't think I am scum because you are.


I AM being logical. Your statements do not compute. I cannot ignore that and vote for Game on the basis of some "scum tells" , when I have a fucking walking inconsistency staring me in the face.


and all town have to be consistent?

So turn the table.

You are healer. Someone else claims healer, and you made a choice to see them lynched instead of counter revealing.

That person CF's innocent. What do you do?

Do you KNOW why that happened? No.

So at first I am thinking symp, then I think he could have been killer, now I am back to symp. Where would you be? I still don't know, and won't until after the game. I find it hard to stay consistent when I don't know.

Yes, guess what, it's my premise for finding scum. I look for inconsistencies that suggest you know more than town should.

I already told you where I'd be: I'd counter reveal if I thought they were a killer (as you claimed you did).

I certainly would not wait until fucking D-day to reveal when I'd know I'd have all kind of accusations flung my way for it.


No that was not my scenario, I am asking youto put yourself in my shoes and you haven't. You have made up your own scenario.

Okay, following your scenario: I would either not reveal at all (spend my time making cases instead of defending from accusations that come out of the reveal), or is reveal BEFORE THE FUCKING D-Day.

There's two types of town roles: ones that provide town with information (finder, guard, lovers, if they reveal), and the ones that benefit from anonymity, working in the background (healer, vig, BP). Healer revealing late-game contributes nothing, unless they feel confident their immediate reveal nets a scum. Otherwise, they end up being a walking pile of WIFOM- I've., you, if you were telling the truth.
Mac's early reveal makes sense as both frustration and giving the town a heads up that they're down a role- and in case someone tries to claim that role later (like you did). Your reveal makes no sense when it was.

#712 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:22 PM

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Here, I fucking hate speculating about roles, but there's a far simpler scenario for you:

YOU are the evil coroner/inheritor. Mockra was the killer. Mac was the healer, and either Kas or IE was the coroner.
You revealed to try to keep Mockra alive yesterday, turning the thread on Game. When you failed, you manipulated his CF, and inherited the kill power.


I like most of the above theory - but you're saying that Serc was the Promotable Coroner, but that there was ALSO a regular Coroner and Healer? Seems like you're complicating things.

That being said, I can absolutely see the Mockra = Killer, Serc = Promotable Evil Coroner theory. It makes Fanderay's reveal true, which I still lean more towards than not (I'm still so fucking unsure of that though - the only saving grace is the self-hammer), and absolutely explains Serc's DDay reveal as a fake reveal to try to keep us off Mockra, cause that's where the thread was mostly thinking of going at that point anyway.

#713 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:23 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:11 PM, said:

So the thing that's got me a bit surprised is that I never actually expected that an Alkend train would gather ANY steam. And the moment I mentioned that I was most suspicious about Alkend you all jumped on it.... I legitimately thought you guys were just going to speed lynch me and lose the game.

So where are the votes right now? 1 on Serc, 2 on Alkend? If I were to vote Serc, I'd need Okaros to follow.

Okaros - what do you think? I think it's suspicious that Serc has changed his tune so quickly today. I'm still weary of Alkend. I'm gonna reread all the stuff you three have posted since I went to bed last night, hopefully get a bit more insight.


Well I admit that your suspicion had me look at the thread with a new light and I think I found something. I still don't fully trust you.


Heh, wish I had a backpedalling gif.

#714 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:24 PM

That is the crux of the argument isn't it. Timing.

Well I did it at the very beginning of the day to answer as much scrutiny as possible. I did not think of d day at the time of the reveal, I just thought I'd get it out there so we are not going down the wrong path for the wrong reasons.

#715 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:25 PM

Yes, it comes down to timing. And everything you did after that.

#716 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:27 PM

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Here, I fucking hate speculating about roles, but there's a far simpler scenario for you:

YOU are the evil coroner/inheritor. Mockra was the killer. Mac was the healer, and either Kas or IE was the coroner.
You revealed to try to keep Mockra alive yesterday, turning the thread on Game. When you failed, you manipulated his CF, and inherited the kill power.


I like most of the above theory - but you're saying that Serc was the Promotable Coroner, but that there was ALSO a regular Coroner and Healer? Seems like you're complicating things.

That being said, I can absolutely see the Mockra = Killer, Serc = Promotable Evil Coroner theory. It makes Fanderay's reveal true, which I still lean more towards than not (I'm still so fucking unsure of that though - the only saving grace is the self-hammer), and absolutely explains Serc's DDay reveal as a fake reveal to try to keep us off Mockra, cause that's where the thread was mostly thinking of going at that point anyway.


Okay Mockra was lynched and was the killer? So why did a kill go through?

If Mockra was the killer, you are saying that the promotable CF changed the CF and put in a provisional kill?

Quote

If the Psychopath dies, you will take his place as killer. You will lose the ability to affect the CF, but CFs will continue to be printed to thread.


Then Mockra would have CF'd guilty surely.

#717 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:28 PM

View PostOkaros, on 30 March 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

With the lynching of Mockra coming up innocent, I have a difficult time believing that Serc is not the actual Healer. Mainly due to the fact that as I explained with my vote yesterday, Serc's reveal didn't really help Serc at all. It was designed to help draw us away from Mockra. This late in the game, I don't believe that a killer would risk themselves to try to save a symp.


But what if Mockra was the killer and Serc was the promotable coroner? That would change everything.

#718 User is offline   Gamelon 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:31 PM

View PostSerc, on 30 March 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Here, I fucking hate speculating about roles, but there's a far simpler scenario for you:

YOU are the evil coroner/inheritor. Mockra was the killer. Mac was the healer, and either Kas or IE was the coroner.
You revealed to try to keep Mockra alive yesterday, turning the thread on Game. When you failed, you manipulated his CF, and inherited the kill power.


I like most of the above theory - but you're saying that Serc was the Promotable Coroner, but that there was ALSO a regular Coroner and Healer? Seems like you're complicating things.

That being said, I can absolutely see the Mockra = Killer, Serc = Promotable Evil Coroner theory. It makes Fanderay's reveal true, which I still lean more towards than not (I'm still so fucking unsure of that though - the only saving grace is the self-hammer), and absolutely explains Serc's DDay reveal as a fake reveal to try to keep us off Mockra, cause that's where the thread was mostly thinking of going at that point anyway.


Okay Mockra was lynched and was the killer? So why did a kill go through?

If Mockra was the killer, you are saying that the promotable CF changed the CF and put in a provisional kill?

Quote

If the Psychopath dies, you will take his place as killer. You will lose the ability to affect the CF, but CFs will continue to be printed to thread.


Then Mockra would have CF'd guilty surely.


You're changing your story now. Earlier you were talking about how Fanderay could have been the killer and that the promotable coroner was still coroner when he was lynched, so that's why he CF'd as inno, then became the killer at night, thus making everyone else who was lynched/killed after Fandy was inno. I know you've moved on from that theory because of the self-hammer, but that doesn't change the crux of the theory as it relates to this. So what, that exact same situation isn't possible with you and Mockra?

#719 User is offline   Alkend 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

View PostAlkend, on 30 March 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Here, I fucking hate speculating about roles, but there's a far simpler scenario for you:

YOU are the evil coroner/inheritor. Mockra was the killer. Mac was the healer, and either Kas or IE was the coroner.
You revealed to try to keep Mockra alive yesterday, turning the thread on Game. When you failed, you manipulated his CF, and inherited the kill power.


I like most of the above theory - but you're saying that Serc was the Promotable Coroner, but that there was ALSO a regular Coroner and Healer? Seems like you're complicating things.

That being said, I can absolutely see the Mockra = Killer, Serc = Promotable Evil Coroner theory. It makes Fanderay's reveal true, which I still lean more towards than not (I'm still so fucking unsure of that though - the only saving grace is the self-hammer), and absolutely explains Serc's DDay reveal as a fake reveal to try to keep us off Mockra, cause that's where the thread was mostly thinking of going at that point anyway.

I threw that in there to explain why supposed evil coroner didn't make Mac CF scum. Like I keep saying, it's only a possible scenario, one that requires less logical leaps than what Serc posited with his reveal.

#720 User is offline   Serc 

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 02:34 PM

View PostGamelon, on 30 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

View PostOkaros, on 30 March 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

With the lynching of Mockra coming up innocent, I have a difficult time believing that Serc is not the actual Healer. Mainly due to the fact that as I explained with my vote yesterday, Serc's reveal didn't really help Serc at all. It was designed to help draw us away from Mockra. This late in the game, I don't believe that a killer would risk themselves to try to save a symp.


But what if Mockra was the killer and Serc was the promotable coroner? That would change everything.


If Mockra was the killer then he also would not have known the coroner. So for him to follow my votes all game as Alkend suggested, that would make him look like setting me up as the killer.

Fuck sake, don't fall for Alkend's trap unless its you and you've got Alkend in your pocket.

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