Malazan Empire: What are the warrens/holds exactly? (spoilers) - Malazan Empire

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What are the warrens/holds exactly? (spoilers)

#1 User is offline   Sarnax9512 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 01:39 PM

As I'm re-reading the Malazan series for the first time and am currently on book 2, I'm becoming more and more intrigued with the warrens. My impression is that each warren/hold is a distinct planet within its own solar system and that each of these are in a galaxy. The reason why I'm saying this is each of these warrens have unique suns and landscape. So while we can call these 'realms', speaking from a purely scientific view point, aren't they each distinct planets and would therefore be part of a solar system?

If that is the case then how did Krul create the warrens from his body/blood? Are we saying he created these distinct planets with his powers? And if so how should we view the imperial warren? Is that a 'realm' shifted out of space and time and is therefore not a planet?

Maybe someone with more Malazan experience than me can chime in. Just as a footnote, I've read every Malazan associated book out there including the new Dancer book.
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#2 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 01:57 PM

This has been discussed a lot. The search function could find you some great threads.

Generally I think it is wrong to think about the individual warrens and holds as worlds or planets. The only real planet-like/stand alone warren we have seen I think is Aral Gamelon. The rest are connected directly through K'rul to Burn and the planet of Wu.

There is also a difference between thinking of Warrens as a place and as a source of power. For example, I am not sure the Warren of Mocra is a place, but rather the amalgamation of the sentience of every other warren. Similar warrens like the realm of stone or water or decay are certainly connected to Wu.

For the most part I think it's better to think about the warrens as dimensions that overlap the natural world. Like tracing paper. They have shape and form, like places out of time or space, but they are "of Wu". Like for example the Shadow Realm where unique races live but the realm seems to consist of the shadows of current and former continents and events.

EDIT: Mind you I still haven't read Fall of Light and I believe some important stuff about Holds and warrens is revealed there.

This post has been edited by Apt: 17 August 2016 - 01:57 PM

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#3 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 02:27 PM

To further expand on Apts explanation. I believe that what Krul did was to create more direct connections to the other dimensions...aka.. Warrens. Which are an easier way to tap into the power of the different dimensions. The power is tempered when compared with the raw connection that was achievable via the holds. Which is why there are relatively more people who are able to access the warrens then the holds. Now the elder species had a closer connection to specific holds and were able to access (call it an originating hold/home) dimension. Others were given access to a specific hold. Since you have read all of the books I assume you know the species that is able to give access to holds. It is the same one that Krul belongs to. Which implieds that species is more powerful then all of the other elder. That they unlike the others have a natural connection to all dimensions. Which would be needed for Krul to pull off creating of the warrens.
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#4 User is offline   Sarnax9512 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 04:07 PM

So instead of Warrens as planets more like dimensions overlapping Wu. That makes a lot more sense. Also has me thinking of that TV show Fringe :rolleyes:

So were the warrens always there and Krul, who already had access because he was AZ, just provided the links for the rest of the races? It would seem so. That then makes me really think about just who the hell the AZ are. The prequel books shed a big light on them as a race but not necessarily on their origin. To me they are the most intriguing of all the races. I wonder who created them...
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#5 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 04:15 PM

No, the Warrens are of K'rul's making. The magic was always there, but in far more primordial form. It wasn't until Errastas started using blood magic that things got more structured, with Holds and later on Warrens. The Warrens are just a more structured version of earlier attempts at making magic accessible and (ab)usable.
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#6 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 08:22 PM

We have already "seen" the creation of a warren by K'rul. Okay, we are missing some steps, but he somehow turned the destroyed Jacuruku into the Imperial Warren, allowing the land he left behind to heal. Perhaps he will do the same in the case of Kurald Galain.
Maybe at least the Elder Warrens were created like this. Take a piece of land together with it inhabitants -> Move it into another dimension and gift it with an aspect or the aspect exists already -> Somehow manage to avoid a big hole in the ground.

I always liked the comparison of the warrens to the Planes of Oblivion in TES. Magical dimensions with crazy/strange gods as rulers, inhabitet by humans, demons and other strange things and some kind of aspect (Madness, ...). :rolleyes:
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#7 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 17 August 2016 - 08:35 PM

I believe the twist we will see at the end of the Kharkanas Trilogy is that the warrens aren't actually in K'rul's heart.

Spoiler

They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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