[champ]

Morgoth, on 20 May 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Grief, on 16 May 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

Hahah yeah that's pretty galling. This election is looking to be a huge mess (both domestically and in EU-wide terms). A good time for opportunists since the big parties look like they'll take a hammering for how Brexit has gone... while the populists have neatly sidestepped the messy practical details and now get to jump back in saying how their vision has been betrayed or whatever.

Having said that, there's a very fair argument to be made that the EU is severely lacking in the democracy department. It's one of the reasons that I'd consider more legitimate in terms of opposing the EU when it's made in good faith.

In what way is the EU severely lacking in democracy?

https://www.princeto...ary/deficit.pdf is an interesting read with regards to that.

[worry]

Just wanna pop in to say the milkshake stuff is good and it rules, keep up the good work.

[Illuyankas]

Lactose the intolerant

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm dreading the results of this one I fear brexit party will do well.

[Gorefest]

Logically, people who are anti-EU should not be voting for this, surely...?

*fingers crossed against better judgement*

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 23 May 2019 - 11:06 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Hound: You voted for Brexit?

Arya: Lots of people voted for Brexit.

Hound:

[Tiste Simeon]

Gorefest, on 23 May 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

Logically, people who are anti-EU should not be voting for this, surely...?

*fingers crossed against better judgement*

Well exactly. They've been telling us it's undemocratic for years and now they want a vote?

[Maark Abbott]

Tiste Simeon, on 23 May 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 23 May 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

Logically, people who are anti-EU should not be voting for this, surely...?

*fingers crossed against better judgement*

Well exactly. They've been telling us it's undemocratic for years and now they want a vote?

Your first mistake was in expecting cogent thought from Breklets.

[Mezla PigDog]

I'm dreading the election results on Sunday. And then the next awful stop will be Prime Minister Boris Johnson. At some point followed by a General Election (quickly, I hope). If there is any justice in the world the Tories will never recover from what they have done to the country.

[Maark Abbott]

Mezla PigDog, on 24 May 2019 - 07:20 AM, said:

I'm dreading the election results on Sunday. And then the next awful stop will be Prime Minister Boris Johnson. At some point followed by a General Election (quickly, I hope). If there is any justice in the world the Tories will never recover from what they have done to the country.

Unfortunately, if the last decade has been anything to go by, it's reasonable to assume the British people will allow themselves to be trampled on, and only at such a time as those who are not already on the breadline find themselves there will there be an uprising violent enough to change things.

Don't forget that the idiots known as our countrymen voted the Tories into power several times in the interim.

[Tiste Simeon]

Welp she's nearly gone. 7th June to be precise.

Can't say I'm surprised or upset but I fear whoever comes next - most likely that turd Boris - will be worse.

[Maark Abbott]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 May 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

Welp she's nearly gone. 7th June to be precise.

Can't say I'm surprised or upset but I fear whoever comes next - most likely that turd Boris - will be worse.

I brought my BoJo stick just to show her a trick, she had so many friends

[QuickTidal]

So I don't know a lot about this, but wasn't there a "let's re-do the referendum" on the table a few days ago? What happened with that?

[Mezla PigDog]

We haven't come close to a do-over yet. Sadly.

If Boris makes the final leadership ticket then he is out and out favourite amongst the gammon Tory membership, supposedly.

It will be interesting to see if the more restrained Tory MPs then swallow their principles in the name of clinging onto power. I'm going with a big fat YES.

[Gorefest]

I was able to vote in the elections but a lot of other EU nationals couldn't. It does feel very dodgy. I actually had to fill out an additional form to request elgibility to vote in the EU elections, even though according to EU law I should be registered in the same way as UK citizens and I should not have been made to fill out additional paperwork for it. a lot of EU nationals in the UK say they never even received additional paperwork from their councils or that their councils did not process their requests quick enough, even though they submitted the papers before the 7th of May deadline. Very dubious. i can see the UK receiving a big lawsuit from this.

[Werthead]

QuickTidal, on 24 May 2019 - 12:58 PM, said:

So I don't know a lot about this, but wasn't there a "let's re-do the referendum" on the table a few days ago? What happened with that?

May put it down as a sop to get the Remain-supporting parties to support her deal. The Liberal Democrats agreed, but Labour refused to back it and most of the Tory Party rebelled against the idea. It was basically a last-ditch proposal which has now failed. It's very unlikely the new leader will make the same offer.

[worry]

A hearty 'hell yah' to this though.

[Grief]

champ, on 20 May 2019 - 02:35 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 20 May 2019 - 07:55 AM, said:

Grief, on 16 May 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

Hahah yeah that's pretty galling. This election is looking to be a huge mess (both domestically and in EU-wide terms). A good time for opportunists since the big parties look like they'll take a hammering for how Brexit has gone... while the populists have neatly sidestepped the messy practical details and now get to jump back in saying how their vision has been betrayed or whatever.

Having said that, there's a very fair argument to be made that the EU is severely lacking in the democracy department. It's one of the reasons that I'd consider more legitimate in terms of opposing the EU when it's made in good faith.

In what way is the EU severely lacking in democracy?

https://www.princeto...ary/deficit.pdf is an interesting read with regards to that.

Since I've just realised Moravcsik has been posted already, I'd recommend anyone interested in this line of argument Follesdal & Hix (2006) which directly responds to it. The papers are a little older but they're still influential (and fairly readable as EU literature goes...).

Edit: I've moved my longer response to Ye Big Politics Thread since the discussion shifted there. I'll leave this post here but it's probably better to keep further discussion to the other thread (especially as this one will probably be overtaken by current events shortly).

[Maark Abbott]

The good:

- Pro-remain parties have the overall majority of UK seats in the EU parliament
- UKIP lost every single seat they held

The bad:

- Newkip gained 31 seats by themselves, and we all know they're going to be purposefully disruptive.
- Lib Dems making a comeback (don't forget they helped engineer the social climate that led to this entire mess).

The ugly:

A lot of people willingly voted for the Farage gravy train despite the fact the only reason he's done it is to keep his free, easy wage as an MEP.

[Mezla PigDog]

worry, on 24 May 2019 - 09:24 PM, said:

A hearty 'hell yah' to this though.

I've been meaning to watch that for days. I love the "Can you not even respond on a human level?" "I did".

The whole 24 hour news thing has made those who should be sensible journalists reduce themselves to imbicilic questioning.

Equally horrified and quite pleased with the results of the elections. So my main emotional response is "nonplussed".