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The UK Politics Thread (Formerly the Brexit thread)

#221 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 05:26 AM

Well Boris dropped out as predicted - if he got it he would have been voted out immediately; at least by using Gove as the reason he may get a better shot down the line.That said, after what he's just done he's unlikely to get another shot at anything.

Edit.. and now Clarke wants Gove to give up the attempt! It's looking more and more like May stands a chance.. which seems equally bonkers as she's pro-EU isn't she? And the reason for Cameron stepped down was because a pro-EU PM couldn't be expected to deal with the exit.

You couldn't write this stuff.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 01 July 2016 - 09:24 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#222 User is offline   polishgenius 

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:40 AM

May was in the remain camp, but she's been a eurosceptic in the past and I believe has committed to pulling out fully (though not as strongly as Gove).


Seriously, though, when the choice for next Prime Minister is one of those two things have gone seriously wrong. You thought it was bad between Cameron and Miliband, you ain't seen nothing yet. They're both awful.
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#223 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 11:43 AM

Gove is a slimy worm and I hope he falls and falls hard. I read this on Facebook today, and while I dislike her immensely, Theresa May might just be the best option at the moment... I think if the Labour party can stand and unite, then they may just have a chance. Heck, in theory they have 4 years to sort themselves out, but the speed at which they devolved into chaos was frightening...

Anyway:

Quote

After seven days of spectacular chaos, the fog is now starting to lift. I think it is possible to see what the way ahead might look like. Here's my best guess;

1) Theresa May will be the next Tory leader. Although it is not unheard of for the man who wields the knife to wear the crown (think Gordon Brown), I suspect Michael Gove's spectacular, sudden and brutal knifing of his former ally this morning probably does for his own leadership prospects. Even for the Tory party, the sight of this much blood might be too much to stomach.

2) As Theresa's campaign manager, Chris Grayling is likely to be the man in charge of Brexit. I suspect Boris Johnson and (if he doesn't win) Michael Gove are probably finished as serious forces in modern British politics. Their behaviour seems frankly erratic. And that is putting it politely.

3) Theresa May has already said she won't trigger Article Fifty this year. I think this kicks it firmly into the long grass. That is not the same as saying we are going to stay in the EU, after all - I suspect that boat has sailed - but Theresa May is a quiet, cautious politician. My every instinct is that she will hit the brake and keep her foot on it for a very long time. As the country senses this, an uneasy calm may begin to descend.

4) Mr Juncker can say what he likes, our future relationship with the EU is going to be decided by one woman above all others; Angela Merkel. In their first meeting, I imagine Theresa will make an argument that goes something like this; 'I have not triggered article fifty and I have no plans to do so any time soon. We helped to build the Single Market, we are a critical part of the European economy and it makes no sense to exclude us. I will not trigger our departure until there is a clear understanding that there will be no attempt to punish us. That said, whilst we might accept the principle of freedom of movement per se ( in a world where the GDP per capita ratios of member countries are aligned) it is clearly creating strains across the continent. This is not just a British problem. Therefore, what is required is a measure that returns control of immigration policy to national governments. You could call it an emergency brake - thus preserving the absolute principle of Freedom of Movement. Once the economies of member countries come into GDP per capita alignment, the problem is likely to evaporate. No one is complaining about the influx of Italians into the UK. If you, Angela, do not agree to this, the problems will spread to other populations and other countries. You know this, therefore the way ahead is clear.'

5) The fact that this conversation is likely to take place in private between two quiet, clever, cautious women suggests to me that there is a much higher prospect of success than might otherwise be the case (if I am sounding like an out and out feminist here, that is because each passing day makes me more of one...). It is also possible that a third woman in the same mould may join the conversation from the White House in November. This in itself could provide a major contribution to calming everything down. That said, the noisy entrance of a President Trump might push Angela Merkel and Theresa May closer together anyway.

6) By allowing concessions within the EU, Ms Merkel would reduce the incentive for other countries to leave. For those in the Euro, leaving is fraught with all kinds of attendant complications anyway, so there is a decent chance that the sense the centre is listening and yielding on immigration policy may take the heat out of the equation and make it easier for progress to be achieved in areas that are arguably more central to the German mission (such as proper fiscal union).

7) In this scenario (dependent on a lot of 'ifs', I grant you), one might argue that there would be, in the end, little point in us ever actually leaving the EU (if we have got what we always wanted, why leave?). But there are a few other points to consider here. It is not just that we have voted to leave (a pretty central fact for the incoming Prime Minister in itself). The truth is very few people have bothered to make a positive case for the EU in recent times. It has been repeatedly used as the scapegoat for a million issues and, true or not, it is very hard to reverse that tide of rhetoric. If Ms May could achieve what I suspect she would want - a quiet, cautious divorce that keeps us in the Single Market, retains the City's status as the financial capital of Europe and settles the rest of the EU down - then that is likely to prove a much more attractive political option than going over the ground a second time.

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#224 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 07:32 PM

Quote

Mr Juncker can say what he likes, our future relationship with the EU is going to be decided by one woman above all others; Angela Merkel. In their first meeting, I imagine Theresa will make an argument that goes something like this; 'I have not triggered article fifty and I have no plans to do so any time soon. We helped to build the Single Market, we are a critical part of the European economy and it makes no sense to exclude us. I will not trigger our departure until there is a clear understanding that there will be no attempt to punish us. That said, whilst we might accept the principle of freedom of movement per se ( in a world where the GDP per capita ratios of member countries are aligned) it is clearly creating strains across the continent. This is not just a British problem. Therefore, what is required is a measure that returns control of immigration policy to national governments. You could call it an emergency brake - thus preserving the absolute principle of Freedom of Movement. Once the economies of member countries come into GDP per capita alignment, the problem is likely to evaporate. No one is complaining about the influx of Italians into the UK. If you, Angela, do not agree to this, the problems will spread to other populations and other countries. You know this, therefore the way ahead is clear.'


It's worth noting that Sarkozy - who doesn't have any power at the moment but was a close ally of Merkel's - has suggested something almost identical to this. Of course, he's also proposed an EU-wide referendum on a whole raft of measures which I don't think anyone else wants.
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#225 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 09:25 PM

It seems my dad is a brexit voter.
And is still supporting his decision this depresses me
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#226 User is offline   Kanese S's 

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Posted 03 July 2016 - 02:40 AM

View PostMacros, on 01 July 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

It seems my dad is a brexit voter.
And is still supporting his decision this depresses me


The old have once again fucked over the young.
Laseen did nothing wrong.

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#227 User is offline   Coltaine - 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 11:27 AM

And number 2. Now everyone should have understood that the Brexit was a big mistake. The two most prominent faces of the Brexit-campagne fear to take responsibility. :Rodeo:

http://www.bbc.com/n...litics-36702468
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#228 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 11:46 AM

How was Farage going to take responsibility anyway? He isn't even an MP so he doesn't have a vote or a formal platform to get involved in any discussions. But yeah, the image of rats on a sinking ship does spring to mind.
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#229 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:49 AM

View PostGorefest, on 04 July 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

How was Farage going to take responsibility anyway? He isn't even an MP so he doesn't have a vote or a formal platform to get involved in any discussions. But yeah, the image of rats on a sinking ship does spring to mind.


I suppose we have to look at it from the point of view that even if he's not an MP, he's still the head of UKIP and as far as I'm aware an MEP.
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#230 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:45 AM

MEP posts are going and UKIP only had one MP, who hates Farage's gut. Can't imagine anyone on any future EU negotiation team would invite Farage anyway, as he is toxic.
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#231 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 11:58 AM

I'm finding at work that all the 'leave' people who were so vocal the day after the vote are strangely quiet on the subject at the moment.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#232 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 12:29 PM

It won't save them when the Purge cometh.
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#233 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 01:04 PM

Lol

My countries minister of foreign affairs says she did not know what Brexit was. Lat month she said she did not know the names of the presidential candidates in America.
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#234 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 07:05 PM

View PostCause, on 05 July 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Lol

My countries minister of foreign affairs says she did not know what Brexit was. Lat month she said she did not know the names of the presidential candidates in America.


Good to see that she is well qualified for her job.

:Rodeo:
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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#235 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 08:07 PM

View PostCause, on 05 July 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Lol

My countries minister of foreign affairs says she did not know what Brexit was.


Neither did half the UK apparently.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#236 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 10:51 PM

View PostGorefest, on 04 July 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

How was Farage going to take responsibility anyway? He isn't even an MP so he doesn't have a vote or a formal platform to get involved in any discussions. But yeah, the image of rats on a sinking ship does spring to mind.

He seemed very keen to be in thick of things prior to screwing the country up with his racist invective.
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#237 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 06 July 2016 - 09:17 PM

Now that they've sold us into another recession they're fleeing to hide.
I hope all brexit voters are proud that sterling is bottoming out and the housing industry is aiming for a nose dive.
Well played sirs, well played
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#238 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:36 PM

Asked by ITV about Andrea Leadsom's (Tory leader candidate) views on gay marriage, she said: "I believe that the love of same-sex couples is every bit as valuable as that of opposite-sex couples. But nevertheless, my own view is that marriage in the biblical sense is very clearly, from the many, many Christians who wrote to me on this subject, in their opinion, can only be between a man and a woman. I don't agree with them to be specific.

"But what I do think is that I would have preferred civil partnership to be available to heterosexual and gay couples and for marriage to have remained as a Christian service for men and women who wanted to commit in the eyes of God.

"Civil partnerships are called marriage as well. The concern I had was the potential compulsion for the Church of England. I don't think the Anglican church should be forced down a route when many Christians aren't comfortable about it."

------

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that religion claims to have invented the word 'marriage'. Breaking News: from next week it is not allowed for non-Christians to purchase 'wine' anymore; for atheists, wine will now be referred to as grape-based alcoholic beverage. Weddings for atheists will be called Joinings, while Cross will be referred to as Very Annoyed (as in 'very annoyed bow', 'very annoyed stitch', and 'very annoyed country running'). This was an announcement by the Conservative Raving Loony Party.



This post has been edited by Gorefest: 07 July 2016 - 03:36 PM

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#239 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:46 PM

Well, at least Michael Gove isn't going to be PM, and we are - one way or another - going to get our next female PM!

I still dislike Theresa May but I do think she might be the best option (rock and a hard place anyone??)
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#240 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 07 July 2016 - 03:50 PM

Scylla and Charybdis, even.

Theresa May is a disaster. Andrea Leadsom is a disaster. Nobody apart from a number of the 150,000 Tory party members voted for these people to lead the country. Nobody has any clue what they are doing. This is a joke. The first thing either of them is going to do is revert things like maternity pay entitlement and minimum wages for staff in small to medium-sized companies. Welcome to compassionate Britain.
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