[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'm going to act like I never read that.

LOL!

Hey, in my defence, as a Canadian I support all your big athletes to do well...EXCEPT Phelps...the guy rubs me the wrong way.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

...That said the booing going on anytime Russia is up is uncalled for in these games.

Considering the Russians industrialized doping right across their entire athletics program, I disagree.

Let them know even if the IOC is too crap to do anything, the rest of the world is not ok with them.


Are there Russian athletes who haven't doped...? Maybe, probably. Are there many? Doubtful, and even then the majority of the subset are the ones who thought they might get caught.

Any Russian athlete with a clean slate (all, I dunno, three of them, probably in equestrian because the horses got all the good dope) has nothing to feel bad about and knows exactly where those boos come from.

Yes, I know the Olympics aren't supposed to be about politics celebrate the athletes bullshit bullshit bullshit it's a competition between countries and one of those countries, one of the biggest, took a dump on what little dignity the Olympics have left and smeared it into the words 'suck it comrade' and then the IOC handed them a wet-wipe and some tasty snacks and a beverage.

[Slow Ben]

Abyss, on 09 August 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

...That said the booing going on anytime Russia is up is uncalled for in these games.

Considering the Russians industrialized doping right across their entire athletics program, I disagree.

Let them know even if the IOC is too crap to do anything, the rest of the world is not ok with them.


Are there Russian athletes who haven't doped...? Maybe, probably. Are there many? Doubtful, and even then the majority of the subset are the ones who thought they might get caught.

Any Russian athlete with a clean slate (all, I dunno, three of them, probably in equestrian because the horses got all the good dope) has nothing to feel bad about and knows exactly where those boos come from.

Yes, I know the Olympics aren't supposed to be about politics celebrate the athletes bullshit bullshit bullshit it's a competition between countries and one of those countries, one of the biggest, took a dump on what little dignity the Olympics have left and smeared it into the words 'suck it comrade' and then the IOC handed them a wet-wipe and some snacks.

Word.


Speaking of beating doping Russians. Lilly King is from about an hour from me. People around here are freaking out. She's a badass.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 09 August 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:

...That said the booing going on anytime Russia is up is uncalled for in these games.

Considering the Russians industrialized doping right across their entire athletics program, I disagree.

Let them know even if the IOC is too crap to do anything, the rest of the world is not ok with them.


Are there Russian athletes who haven't doped...? Maybe, probably. Are there many? Doubtful, and even then the majority of the subset are the ones who thought they might get caught.

Any Russian athlete with a clean slate (all, I dunno, three of them, probably in equestrian because the horses got all the good dope) has nothing to feel bad about and knows exactly where those boos come from.

Yes, I know the Olympics aren't supposed to be about politics celebrate the athletes bullshit bullshit bullshit it's a competition between countries and one of those countries, one of the biggest, took a dump on what little dignity the Olympics have left and smeared it into the words 'suck it comrade' and then the IOC handed them a wet-wipe and some snacks.

Yeah, I mean the whistleblower on the whole thing (an athlete who was told to dope by her sport organization) whose husband was on the anti-doping board...went to the anti-doping board and the IFA and they deferred to each sport organization to allow or disallow it...and they did nothing...the IOC then refused to do anything....so she had to go to the media...and FINALLY something happened about it as a result of the public outcry. The fact that this was state-sponsored doping that EVERYONE was willing/desired to ignore and it only had any repercussions because the media was brought into the loop...speaks volumes.

But yeah, I'm comfortable with the booing since it lets them know this is not cool, and should have been brought out long ago. You don't get to leave the top time, or score in anything if you've used drugs. Full stop. All the side-eye they've been getting and the booing is the public is righteous simply by the fact that if there had been more brave people who would have brought the state-requested/required doping to light, this would not have gotten this far.

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 09 August 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

Speaking of beating doping Russians. Lilly King is from about an hour from me. People around here are freaking out. She's a badass.

She was frigging amazing. Most impressive US Olympian I've seen thus far. But then I'm partial to swimming as I used to competitively swim myself.

[Slow Ben]

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Silence would speak louder then words.

Not to be to eloquent, but bullshit.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Silence would speak louder then words.

Silence would be classier than words, but crowds watching sports don't work that way.

As titillating as it would be if every Russian medal was greeted with dead silence and turned backs and, I dunno, mimed injection-like motions to the upper arm, boos are as organized as we're going to see.

[QuickTidal]

The problem for me is that Efimova's "excuse" in the press conference after the race was something along the lines (her english was broken, but you can get the gist of it), if someone tells you this is what you do, you do it. Like a "My bosses said do this, how is that MY fault?"

And I just can't find it in me to feel sorry for her if that's the case (I now she broke down into tears after the race). Lilly King has every right to take her to task for that. Until she's proven herself clean for a long enough time to show that she's racing legit-no doping...she doesn't get to play the victim card. Just "following orders" doesn't fly.

[Slow Ben]

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Slow Ben, on 09 August 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Briar King, on 09 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Silence would speak louder then words.

Not to be to eloquent, but bullshit.

Bullshit on that bullshit.
You ever play sports and been booed? It feels horrible. You ever played sports and they don't even bother to acknowledge you are even there or exist in game it feels 100times worst then horrible.

I'd agree if it was a 1 v 1 competition. But when there is so many countries competing, some with hardly any fans, the silence would not be noticed.

[WinterPhoenix]

No idea how long I'll have to be up to see it - the Phelps/Le Clos semi was at about 3am this morning here - but man how I am hoping that Tamas Kenderesi of Hungary beats them all tonight/early hours of tomorrow morning! I want to see Phelps' and Le Clos' faces if he wins, it will be joyous - and I like both Phelps and Le Clos tbh, it'll just be too funny not to happen. Plus Laszlo Cseh as a fellow Hungarian 10 years his senior, is undoubtedly one of Kenderesi's swimming heroes, so if he does win it, it'll be a little like Le Clos gunning for Phelps in 2012 and I'm a sucker for symmetry - and oh my good god if Kenderesi beats Cseh, Cseh might explode tbh. As the only man to swim sub 1:54 thus far as well, Kenderesi has as much chance as the 3 big guns. I always like an underdog

[amphibian]

I would say 60 to 75% of the elite athletes we are watching are on something PED. Most likely, the very best are on or recently were on stuff that's not illegal yet, while the others are figuring out the best ways to mask and skip through tests.

The truly clean athletes at this level of athletics and with money on the line are few and far between.

I think the best example is the 1988 gold medal that Ben Johnson had taken away from him. By modern testing standard, just about everyone in that race was dirty, but they gave it to Carl Lewis and hushed up the results of later testing to let sleeping dogs lie. Plus Lewis tested hot in the trials before the Olympics three different times.

It's all kabuki and it's nonsense. Legalize the damn PEDs and let the athletes go.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 09 August 2016 - 09:17 PM

[WinterPhoenix]

amphibian, on 09 August 2016 - 09:12 PM, said:

I would say 60 to 75% of the elite athletes we are watching are on something PED. Most likely, the very best are on or recently were on stuff that's not illegal yet, while the others are figuring out the best ways to mask and skip through tests.

The truly clean athletes at this level of athletics and with money on the line are few and far between.

I think the best example is the 1988 gold medal that Ben Johnson had taken away from him. By modern testing standard, just about everyone in that race was dirty, but they gave it to Carl Lewis and hushed up the results of later testing to let sleeping dogs lie. Plus Lewis tested hot in the trials before the Olympics three different times.

It's all kabuki and it's nonsense. Legalize the damn PEDs and let the athletes go.

No one wants to see Usain Bolt run the 100m in 9:59, they want to see a doped up Bolt run it in 5 seconds flat, perhaps disappearing when he reaches 88mph and reappearing at the finishing line warning of a coming alien invasion...

Tongue in cheek sarcasm aside, I understand your point, I imagine if you legalized all sorts of PED's though, it would no longer be a case of who's the best athlete but which countries have access to the best drugs. And I get that you are saying it is basically already the case, i.e. who can cheat without getting caught, it's a very depressing situation though. I would rather that state-sponsored doping gets the adverse reaction it has been getting, rather than 'oh, everybody cheats anyhow', even if that depressing as hell statement is probably true.

This post has been edited by WinterPhoenix: 09 August 2016 - 09:33 PM

[amphibian]

Do you know how cheap steroids and other PEDs can be? It's not that hard to get them. It's also possible to do them without serious health side effects.

It's probably better to legalize it and see if athletics without having to walk back the winners and losers after the fact is a better product (I think it will be).

[WinterPhoenix]

amphibian, on 09 August 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Do you know how cheap steroids and other PEDs can be? It's not that hard to get them. It's also possible to do them without serious health side effects.

It's probably better to legalize it and see if athletics without having to walk back the winners and losers after the fact is a better product (I think it will be).

No I get that, the thing is you can't just say 'S'all legal, have at it' and not expect the larger/richer countries not to spend huge amounts of money on perfecting synthetic steroids and other PED's that are expensive, if not to buy and circulate, then at least to actually create - and then protecting them as jealously guarded state secrets. If you happen to live in a country that can afford dedicated labs for perfecting these things - and lets ignore for a minute how sad it would be to see more money spent of such labs than actual training centres for individual athletic pursuits - then you'll automatically be in a better position to win. I understand that to some extent this is already the case and it's not something that can ever be properly eliminated I imagine - I mean if you're going to talk about the advantageous effect of money on competition then it becomes rather moot, as there's not really anything to be done.

The more experimental it would become as well (and it will become ever more experimental as countries search for that elusive advantage) the more health does become a serious issue, and any athlete who perhaps didn't want to risk their health might as well not compete.

[amphibian]

That's a better state of affairs than each individual athlete having to learn all this stuff themselves and keep the results to themselves and their eventual students.

The big countries already have the best training venues and partners. Giving everyone PED legality means that the advantages will pretty much stay the same, except for superstar wealthy athletes - who we most want to see perform to superstar levels anyways.

[WinterPhoenix]

Noooo, BK, it's my man Kenderesi for that event I just want to hear the commentary after all the focus on the Phelps/le Clos rivalry if he takes that gold medal, I'm properly rooting for him, can't imagine what it must be like to be 19 and beating the legendary Phelps (even if it was just a semi). Honestly I feel like commentary have been very dismissive of Laszlo Cseh as well, he's well capable of beating Phelps and le Clos. I can see why you're nervous though, if Kenderesi swims like he has in the heats and semi's, literally anyone of those 4 could win this event. I should not still be awake at 2:30 this morning, but it's too exciting to miss tbh.

I'm sure Phelps will get that 20th, even if he fails to win this event.

EDIT: BK, Biles is an absolutely insane gymnast, so, so, so impressive. And if Ledecky doesn't win tonight I'll eat as many hats as I can find.

Amph, I concede that the effect money has on competition can never be ironed out, I still feel like legalising PED's actually broadens the inequality in that area, however, and it will inevitably lead to health risks and the ostracizing of any athlete who wishes not to use them.

EDIT 2: I'm interested to see if Siobhan Marie O'Connor can beat Katinka Hosszu tonight, I doubt it tbh, Katinka has been phenomenal (that WR was insane!) but Siobhan outdid her in the semi's and swam very, very well. So well in fact that Katinka has pulled out of an event that takes place prior to conserve energy, I think that means she'll definitely win, but it'll be another exciting race nonetheless.

This post has been edited by WinterPhoenix: 10 August 2016 - 12:33 AM

[WinterPhoenix]

Pretty comfortable in the end for Ledecky, it's mind blowing that she is an even better distance swimmer than sprinter, barring falling in at the start or some 'act of god' she will sweep the 800 as well.

[WinterPhoenix]

What a finish, japanese guy came out of nowehere for 2nd, 5 more metres and think Kenderesi and Saito were catching him. Such a legend though Phelps, think it was written for him to get 20 here. Cannot believe Cseh did so badly tbh.

EDIT: Should probably sleep now, but I'm still waiting on O'Connor/Hosszu :/

This post has been edited by WinterPhoenix: 10 August 2016 - 01:40 AM

[WinterPhoenix]

Disappointed by that race, was really behind Siobhan, but Katinka is just insanely good, her backstroke is crazy good.

[Slow Ben]

Driving 3 hours to see the in laws tonight.

No olympics.